HardOCP stands up to nVidia.

[mrbios]

Personally, I don't think that this put HardOCP below sites like this. Excuse the language, but Anandtech wouldn't have the balls to stand up to Nvidia like that. If he were to do that, advertising goes down the toilet, and suddenly he is just another fan site, having to take this crap from Nvidia. Sometimes its good to read reviews off of commercial sites like this, but alot of the times its better to wait and read off of fan sites. Some of you complain about the length of reviews off fan sites but why? Some people have lives and don't have the time to read 40 frickin pages of benchmarks and 20 pages on the history of the company and the stuff he's reviewing. Tom's Hardware, Sharky Extreme, and Anandtech are all guilty of doing that. That's where the fan sites come in and do good, to-the-point reviews. Personally, I love reading HardOCP's reviews. In saying this, I no longer am a big fan of Nvidia. I used to back in the day on the TNT, which I still own and use, because it was almost as fast as a Voodoo2 and a hell of alot cheaper. Now 3Dfx and Nvidia have changed roles, and with how Nvidia's PR works, its not that hard to see why. You force people to advertise and make their reviews biased and suddenly you've got people buying your stuff.

Russell "Mr.Bios" Sampson

 

[Napalm]

I can't say that I am surprised at the level to which NVidia's PR-team will sink. However, I am surprised by some of the posters here who think this is perfeclty acceptable behaviour and consistent with the principles of capitalism. It all makes me wonder who is actually typing such crap and why.

It would not surprise me if the PR weanies over at NVidia were actually employing little soldiers to troll newsgroups ensuring NVidia was always seen in a favourable light. If nothing was posted regarding NVidia, their job would be to fill the forums with "fan" posts. If something were posted that was slighly negative towards NVidia, their job would be to spin it so that people ignored it. If something were posted that was very negative, their job would be damage control and more spin.

Do we ever see anything like this around here?

Napalm

 

[Smurk]

In MHO we all are more or less depending on reviews. Nearly no one can afford to test all hardware he or she is thinking of bying. Independence and freedom of press, where this is about, is a precondition to be able to choose the product you want. nVidia, if the accusations are true, tries to kill that freedom.

On the other hand we, "consumers", WANT a lot of belony thrown at us. To make us feel good/better then our neighbour and so on. All supermarkets now this. 99% buys food by the looks, not by the taste. So they spray our food with God knows what poison, dye the stuff, light it in a special way. And everyone buys the sh!t. If it kills you in a couple of years but it looks good BUY IT.

Bullsh!t with an extention cord, thats how we call products in Holland that are soled merely on the convincing story that you need to have it otherwise you're a drop out.

What I mean is be alert, if someone sells you something as gold, but it smells like sh!t, looks like sh!t, and feels like sh!t it probably is.

 

[Chad]

Yeah, gotta love Kyle. He went out on a limb here. I like him because he's just like us. He calls it like it is too and doesn't give snowjobs.

Nvidia won't get my money ever again until the PR guys are dealt with. There are bigger issues here, and principalities.

Bye Nvidia... hello uhm... uhm.. Radeon? Maybee a Matrox card... yeah yeah, those are good. Wait, the Voodoo 5 6000 here I come! Wheeee

 

[Sephiroth_IX]

<< If I recall many people around here, even you, were involved in some 3dfx slamming awhile back due to the marketing tactics employed by Bubba. Now people want defend Nvidia's marketing tactics as &quot;what every company does&quot;. >>

I hear that. I was one of the people bashing the hell out of Bubba for this, when Alf swooped in and saved the day. As i was going to buy a GeForce2, tomorrow i will buy a V5 5500 instead to show patronage. Although it is unfair to companies for me to buy the inferior product because of name, and it is against my will to do it, Nvidia crossed the line.

Yes, as before, this IS capitialism. I love capitalism, and i could even see myself doing these things. Business is war, and i understand that more than anyone, but the destruction of media is not the best policy. Now, fighting for more of a favorable review set is understandable, but they are in the drivers seat! Why argue?! Why even do ANY of this? Is NV20 going to be a bust? Are they not going to whip up on everyone again next gen?

Now, Rampage wont be out until the start of next summer (don't believe me, fine) so pretty much the only competition that Nvidia has is the g800 (the savior) and Radeon MAXX (crappy drivers and all with the Alternate Frame Rendering system). This means they have to go head to head to a company that is not known for it's war-machine cards - things look pretty good.

PR is important, but when you are in the lead, understand that. These are simply untalented PR players, and they know very little on comsumer headspace. Intelligent PR means giving away lots of things to the media, making them feel like they have a good relationship with the company, and general priority treatment of the respective companies/sites. This brings happiness to the reviewer, and thus makes a general high-noted review.

Lemme give you an example: FEDEX vs UPS. Who has better quality in the package care department? Fedex, your damned right... However, UPS delivery guys get paid $22 per hour to FEDEX's $14. Why don't they perform better in the field then?? Simple. They are not treated like they should be. Warehouses and trucks have no air conditioning, whereas all of Fedex's do... Fedex is better in almost every aspect in comarison to UPS, yet the average man gets almost 1/3 less pay. It's morale folks, and you play it to the hilt when you are PR. These guys are just amatuers, and they are now balloon-headed.

What is a GeForce2 GTS to the bottom line of Nvidia? Nothing. Not even close to what a favorable review would do.

Then again, we are all now talking about Nvidia, and that's the PR's job, now isn't it? :Q

 

[Napalm]

Seph:

I am starting to think that you are a little PR mole planted here by Fedex...

Napalm

 

[rahvin]

<<Now, Rampage wont be out until the start of next summer (don't believe me, fine)>>

There is confirmed information from 3dfx's CFO that there is a part 'taping' out this quarter. Logic would indicate that this part is Rampage.

 

[Chad]

Right now, I have to say I'm pretty pissed off at Nvidia about this (if it's true). I base my buying decisions off of you all's reviews. Now come to find out Nvidia corrupted the whole damn system. Hmm...

You know, the more and more I think about this, the more and more I get pissed. Excuse my language. Reviews are what I base my decision off of. I read online reviews and spend my HARD earned money on the dang video cards for &quot;Chad&quot;. When Nvidia goes and corrupts the whole thing and tries to manipulate the entire system, then that just makes me feel like they're used car salesmen trying to get a sale and don't care about me at all.

At least 3dfx and Matrox seem to really &quot;care&quot; about us. I promise, I will NEVER buy another Nvidia product as long as I breathe air if this is true.

There are principalities involved here. It might not be much, but it's all I can do to teach these Companies that I won't stand for this type of behavior!

 

[zippy]

<< Kyle:
Here is the canned response that nVidia is starting to send out to the folks that wrote them concerning their tactics involving the media.

Thank you for taking the time to contact NVIDIA and giving us the opportunity to respond to your concerns. As you can imagine, we have received many emails regarding RIVA3D (www.riva3d.com) and other negative posts that have been posted over the last couple of days. Unfortunatley, there were a couple of miscommunications and mishaps which have led to these negative posts. Please allow me to assure you that NVIDIA does not have a policy of strong arming any member of the media.

It is not unusual for large companies to be attacked on the Web, and it is our policy not to publicly respond in most instances, but on behalf of NVIDIA, I would like to say that we do appreciate your patronage and we do not attempt to dictate what is or is not covered online.

Thanks for your time and your understanding, and please feel free to email me if you have any additional questions or concerns.

Cheers,
Derek

Too bad they have been &quot;attacked&quot; with the truth. Too bad they will not &quot;publicly respond.&quot; Too bad he spelled &quot;unfortunately&quot; wrong. (ok, the last one was below the belt)
>>



That was put up at HardOCP at 8:03PM. I just laughed...then I busted a gut, then I wanted to piss on my monitor...then I realized if I did that I wouldn't really be pissing on Derek. hehe jk!

 

[Wingznut]

This is not the first time nVidia has tried these tactics...

It was only a couple weeks ago, when they (in not so many words,) threatened a Riva fan site (Riva3D), because they gave a favorable review of the V5. Riva3D no longer has the V5 review up.

And to many of those defending nVidia... You are hypocrites. Period. I've seen you bash 3dfx time and time again.

...Still waiting for Hardware's take on this subject. Somehow, I doubt he'll make an appearance.

 

[mrbios]

<<And what does Nvidia have to do with advertising? They don't advertise here anyway.>>

Simple. The people make this site what it is. With all the Nvidia A$$ kissers here (sorry), if there were no reviews of Nvidia products here, there will be ALOT of people that would walk away from this site, and visit all the other commercial sites, like Sharky and Tom's Hardware. So, will less of an audience to appeal to, suddenly advertisers want to pay ALOT less to put up there ads, and obviously Anand won't stand for it. This IS his job. Without here, he would have to be like a fan site, and do REAL work, and have to buy hardware alot of the times like the fan sites. Advertising = Money. No money, no reviews. Simple.

Russell &quot;Mr.Bios&quot; Sampson

Edit: Sorry if this sounds like a flame, that wasn't my intention, if you think it is.

 

[zippy]

Like I said in chad's thread just a second ago...

Hardware=Derek Perez?

 

[Compton]

zippy, I wouldn't be suprised at all if you were right about Hardware

and I will definately not buy any nvidia products in the future because of this crap. it's too bad they bought aureal

 

[BenSkywalker]

For Kyle's article, it seems he was treated far too well by nVidia. He is dishonest with his reviews and &quot;tests&quot; and does everything in his power to make 3dfx look good and any &quot;lie&quot; or half truth that comes out of them seem like the gospel truth. I can't think of a review site to trust less the HardOCP.

OTOH- The sh!t that went down at Hypothemia is way the fvck out of line, someone should lose their job over it at nV, and sooner rather then later. I would take the time if I were you guys to drop an email to nVidia to complain about the situation and demand action be taken.

I would reccomend passing on the GTS and going with the Radeon if you are in the market for a vid card, even though I still would without this BS it now should be an even easier choice for people.

 

[Sunner]

Anybody who bases their buying decisions on what PR people say/do needs to learn the bastics of marketing.
I complain once in a while when people like Bubba get started with their BS, but I dont really care, I just like to complain, the asme goes for this case.
Like it or not, but this is what companies do, its the way the world works.
nVidia does it cause they can, 3dfx will do it if they can, MS is doing it all the time, intel are doing it, lets face it, everybody who can does it.
Just take the PR stuff as a good reason to have a nice little flamewar, then look at a few benches and decide based on those.

 

[Chad]

No Sunner, what the Nvidia PR dept. did to Hypothermia is more than that. What they've done is totally unacceptable. I know we all think we can't make a difference, and who knows, maybee we can't. But I for one will do MY part. I've sent Nvidia two emails on the subject and only gotten the same email back that everyone else did (where there PR guy Derek doesn't even spell correctly in his response, irony irony).

Anyhow, I want some satisfaction plain and simple. Either Nvidia &quot;handles&quot; this inccident or they lose me as a customer. They indeed make the best cards, but there ARE legitimate alternatives out there.

Nvidia is wrong on this, and either they fess up like a man, or they play 600 lb. gorilla. Now what's it gonna be?

 

[rickn]

whine whine whine

These threads are about as bad as GUTB and his 'I hate AMD crusade'

 

[zippy]

rickn, not quite. GUTB had no bearing behind his accusations, we do. nVidia is trying to control what we, the consumer, reads about their product on the internet, why should we take that cr@p?!

 

[mpitts]

Agreed..

Kyle puts his integrity before ANYTHING else and I believe him. Nvidia is trying to strongarm sites that may not be able to go out and purchase their $350 video cards. I don't think that anyone here is whining.. I think they are reacting to Nvidia's blatant manipulation.

 

[rickn]

well, the guys at NV News would disagree with you zippy, and they are a fine bunch of fellows over there.

We have the word Hypothermia(which I know nothing about, and never read) VS a very large corporation with 400 employees, and annual revenue of over $600 million. He agreed to Nvidia's terms since he got the hardware. If he didn't like their Exclusive policy, he should have never accepted the hardware. It is their product, their policy, you have to obide by it if you want to review their product. Simple as that. They did not tell him what to write. They simply wanted to have exclusive banner on his page. Nvidia is an OEM supplier, they really are not obligated to send out review materials to anyone. Hercules, CL, are the ones who should be supplying the cards to reviewers. I can tell you now, Hypothermia would have a hell of time getting a review card from CL or Guillemot. They are a hole in the wall crapshoot website. FTR, Kyle is a funny guy, but his website is not even in the same calibur as Anandtech is

There are always two sides to a story.

 

[zippy]

Oh, btw. For whoever said that nVidia gives $300 vid cards to 100+ sites. Not quite, nVidia only gives out a few reference boards to Anandtech, Toms Hardware, Sharky Extreme, and Firing Squad. The rest are up to the manufacturers. BTW, it costs prolly about 100 or so to make a video card, so really, even if nVidia did send out 100 reference boards, it would &quot;only&quot; be $10,000 or so, and that is pocket change considering how many people buy based on each review that they see.

rickn, how do you know they ever wrote up a contract? Some places just have oral agreements, Kyle and Steve are men of their word (it seems) and if nVidia broke their word Steve would let them know about it...which they did. BTW, lets maybe go someplace a lil less potentially bias than NVNews for the dirt on nVidia. Heheh

 

[rickn]

<< rickn, how do you know they ever wrote up a contract? >>



You proved a good a point zippy. We don't have the entire story. It is pretty hard to pass judgement when you don't have the entire story.

As a business, I doubt Nvidia would do verbal agreements. Email agreements are valid and they are legally binding.

Oh yeah, Kraft has always been owned by PM, they recently took over Nabisco.

I am in no way defending Nvidia, however, I have run a game website and I do own a business. I am not naive as to what goes on. However, when you deal with a company and you want their product, you don't and shouldn't expect to set the rules. They set the rules. You play by them. If you dont want to play by them, you go and play in someone elses playground. And judging by the attitude of some of these guys, some are in need of a diaper change

 

[zippy]

Some people are old fashioned, I wouldn't be shocked if Steve didn't sign a contract, that would cramp his style. He tells it like it is, along with Kyle, and if he doesn't like a product, then they can &quot;blow him.&quot;

Red, yeah, I do the same thing with reviews, I only use reviews for benchies nowadays and hear about the card and whatnot through the forums and people that I talk to on ICQ from the forums. Intel isn't a great moral business, but they never did something so underhanded...Rambus has, but Rambus doesn't equal Intel. In fact, I think Intel is fed up with spanky (Rambus) cuz they are licensing a DDR Chipset to Via. Have any of you seen The Green Mile, or read the book for that matter? Rambus reminds me of Persey...

 

[BoberFett]

<< they all were spawned in hell. Big deal, so was I >>

Notice the look of shock and bewilderment on my face as this news is revealed. :Q

 

[Compton]

Don't forget those $300 cards are only $300 when they're sitting on the shelf in a store. I'm sure the cost of them is much less than that for nvidia.