interesting read over at HardOCP about nVidia pushing people around http://www.hardocp.com/articles/nvidia_stuff/ethics2.html
HardOCP stands up to nVidia.
- Thread starter Plester
- Start date
you ppl really have something stuck in your crawl about Nvidia. From reading some of the posts here, it is obvious some people have no clue about the business world.
Here is the outcome I see from all these websites posting private email conversations. Nvidia will change its review policy, only sending products to commercial websites such as Gamecenter, PC Gaming, etc etc, for those companies can be held legally responsible, and maybe a few of their fansites.
Here is the outcome I see from all these websites posting private email conversations. Nvidia will change its review policy, only sending products to commercial websites such as Gamecenter, PC Gaming, etc etc, for those companies can be held legally responsible, and maybe a few of their fansites.
I don't really care about the "business world." I however don't like the type of activity that nVidia was engaging in. Call me naive maybe, but I don't think it is right.
And a WTG for kyle for his stance on the issue.
And a WTG for kyle for his stance on the issue.
burn: then dont buy their product. I base my purchasing decisions on the product itself and the support behind it. If we based our purchasing decisions on the actions of companies, then we would never buy anything, especially over petty things.
Have you ever bought a Kraft or Nabisco food product? Well, they are owned Philip Morris, who is in the business of giving people cancer.
Have you ever bought a Kraft or Nabisco food product? Well, they are owned Philip Morris, who is in the business of giving people cancer.
rickn, Philip Morris hasn't finished the merger yet, it has to get approval still I think. 
Gonna read the article now...
Gonna read the article now...
From hyperthermia:
<<So I am doing what I think is right, and I am posting this article, in it?s full glory, and if NVIDIA doesn?t like it, they can BLOW ME.>>
LMFAO! Bravo! to Steve of hyperthermia.
<<So I am doing what I think is right, and I am posting this article, in it?s full glory, and if NVIDIA doesn?t like it, they can BLOW ME.>>
LMFAO!
Bravo! to Steve of hyperthermia.WTG Kyle!
Best statement in his letter:
"Is this the rag on nVidia hour? No, it is not. It is the "I hope to god that nVidia returns to business practices that mirror the quality we find in their chipsets" hour."
Best statement in his letter:
"Is this the rag on nVidia hour? No, it is not. It is the "I hope to god that nVidia returns to business practices that mirror the quality we find in their chipsets" hour."
Michael
Elite member
- Nov 19, 1999
- 5,435
- 234
- 106
rickn is right that it is the job of PR to control the image and marketing of their companies products. NVIDIA's actions are not "shocking". What these should tell you is not to believe everything you read. There is a great deal of money being spent and being made in the hardware review area.
He is wrong to imply that it is standard business practice to be unethical.
However, this isn't a "petty" issue and it might be on the same level as staying away from companies that are owned by cigarette companies (which I try and avoid where I can). I have not seen any comments or complaints about other hardware comanies doing the same as NVIDIA has.
I read the articles and it sounds to me like NVIDIA considers giving a free videocard to be "sponsorship". In return, they ask that they be the only sponsor. That's not a horrible request. If a webmaster wants to point out that he receives videocards from other companies and doesn't want to have an "exclusive" arrangement with NVIDIA, then they should do so. If NVIDIA decides not to send a videocard, then they have that right.
If there were only 100 websites to send cards to, companies could easily be spending $300/site or $30K in shipping, hardware, and other items. That's a decent amount of money and they do not have unlimited budgets. I bet 100 sites is way low.
I guess I could look at other sites now and see if they only have an NVIDIA logo. Anandtech doesn't fall into that category. Right now, ATI and 3dfx are on the front page and no NVIDIA logo at all.
I think that Kyle is right to post what he has posted so far (and I like the fact that he hasn't posted the emails sent to him, only his email he sent). It is as important information as the benchmark scores.
Michael
He is wrong to imply that it is standard business practice to be unethical.
However, this isn't a "petty" issue and it might be on the same level as staying away from companies that are owned by cigarette companies (which I try and avoid where I can). I have not seen any comments or complaints about other hardware comanies doing the same as NVIDIA has.
I read the articles and it sounds to me like NVIDIA considers giving a free videocard to be "sponsorship". In return, they ask that they be the only sponsor. That's not a horrible request. If a webmaster wants to point out that he receives videocards from other companies and doesn't want to have an "exclusive" arrangement with NVIDIA, then they should do so. If NVIDIA decides not to send a videocard, then they have that right.
If there were only 100 websites to send cards to, companies could easily be spending $300/site or $30K in shipping, hardware, and other items. That's a decent amount of money and they do not have unlimited budgets. I bet 100 sites is way low.
I guess I could look at other sites now and see if they only have an NVIDIA logo. Anandtech doesn't fall into that category. Right now, ATI and 3dfx are on the front page and no NVIDIA logo at all.
I think that Kyle is right to post what he has posted so far (and I like the fact that he hasn't posted the emails sent to him, only his email he sent). It is as important information as the benchmark scores.
Michael
Mem
Lifer
- Apr 23, 2000
- 21,476
- 13
- 81
Maybe Nvidia & 3dfx PR should get together LOL.
Not all PR companies act like this,Nvidia should know better, anyway they have had good & bad reviews just like 3dfx,they are big enough to survive with this sort of minor incident, so a website gives a honest review (in their opinion) this won`t stop people buying Nvidia or 3DFX hardware so there is no need for this sort of response from Nvidia.We all want honest reviews & in the end it`s down to us on what we buy not Nvidia or any other company.
Not all PR companies act like this,Nvidia should know better, anyway they have had good & bad reviews just like 3dfx,they are big enough to survive with this sort of minor incident, so a website gives a honest review (in their opinion) this won`t stop people buying Nvidia or 3DFX hardware so there is no need for this sort of response from Nvidia.We all want honest reviews & in the end it`s down to us on what we buy not Nvidia or any other company.
I tip my hat to Kyle and Steve for sticking for what is right instead of bending over for nVidia!
I dunno why, but I have never liked an nVidia card...ever. Too much hype behind em, too much money for em, relatively poor image quality (V3 sucked worse...but...lets not go there in this thread), the 3rd party vendors couldn't get their drivers in line so we have to use reference drivers...sorry but that seems a bit ridiculous to me (though, thats just me.). Just my random $0.02.
What nVidia is doing is violating the most basic right that we as US Citizens have...freedom of speech and expression, the first amendment!
Now, if there was a contract that said something like in return for cards from us you don't review our competitor's cards...then that is fine! But they didn't! They called em up and told them what was up...no contract! That is wrong.
I dunno why, but I have never liked an nVidia card...ever. Too much hype behind em, too much money for em, relatively poor image quality (V3 sucked worse...but...lets not go there in this thread
), the 3rd party vendors couldn't get their drivers in line so we have to use reference drivers...sorry but that seems a bit ridiculous to me (though, thats just me.). Just my random $0.02. What nVidia is doing is violating the most basic right that we as US Citizens have...freedom of speech and expression, the first amendment!
Now, if there was a contract that said something like in return for cards from us you don't review our competitor's cards...then that is fine! But they didn't! They called em up and told them what was up...no contract! That is wrong.
If they are signing contracts, then they outta have a lawyer to go over them. Once again, amateur webmasters getting greedy for hardware.
<< Exclusive 3D video graphics sponsorship of Hypothermia >>
He agreed to it, he got the hardware. What's the problem?
<< Exclusive 3D video graphics sponsorship of Hypothermia >>
He agreed to it, he got the hardware. What's the problem?
Kyle likes to butt heads with nVidia it appears. While nVidia's handling of the situation was poor at best, Kyle's foul language and unprofessoinal behavior puts him a level below websites like Anandtech.
Michael made a good point. Certainly providing free eval boards to sites is expensive and nVidia would desire to recoop some of that cost by gaining exclusive exposure in these nVidia fan sites. In an ideal world, hardware companies would let the quality and performance of their products be the only marketing tool they use, but unfortunately in the real world, people are strongly influenced by what they read and how they read it. So, a company, to serve its stockholders, must do everything within the law to gain a competitive edge. It may seem underhanded and dirty, but if you criticize nVidia, you better criticize every other company that practices this. We don't know who else does but there is no doubt in my mind that nVidia is not the only company.
Lastly, before I jump on the "Kyle is cool" bandwagon, I would like at least actual emails or more substantial evidence than hearsay about nVidia's actions.
Michael made a good point. Certainly providing free eval boards to sites is expensive and nVidia would desire to recoop some of that cost by gaining exclusive exposure in these nVidia fan sites. In an ideal world, hardware companies would let the quality and performance of their products be the only marketing tool they use, but unfortunately in the real world, people are strongly influenced by what they read and how they read it. So, a company, to serve its stockholders, must do everything within the law to gain a competitive edge. It may seem underhanded and dirty, but if you criticize nVidia, you better criticize every other company that practices this. We don't know who else does but there is no doubt in my mind that nVidia is not the only company.
Lastly, before I jump on the "Kyle is cool" bandwagon, I would like at least actual emails or more substantial evidence than hearsay about nVidia's actions.
I agree Havoc. At this point, I would rather just read professional sites like Anands. Atleast with Anand's reviews I wont have to read a bunch of yankee doodle yapping every other day.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
HaVoC
<< It may seem underhanded and dirty, but if you criticize nVidia, you better criticize every other company that practices this >>
If I recall many people around here, even you, were involved in some 3dfx slamming awhile back due to the marketing tactics employed by Bubba. Now people want defend Nvidia's marketing tactics as "what every company does".
Why the double stanard?
<< It may seem underhanded and dirty, but if you criticize nVidia, you better criticize every other company that practices this >>
If I recall many people around here, even you, were involved in some 3dfx slamming awhile back due to the marketing tactics employed by Bubba. Now people want defend Nvidia's marketing tactics as "what every company does".
Why the double stanard?
[H]ardOCP is "underground", they can do what they want without being criticized on CNet or whatever! I like anands reviews more than Kyle's for new products, though, when I'm looking at the 12th GeForce2GTS review I don't need to read a whole shiznitload of details cuz I've already seen em in the previous 11. That is what I like about HardOCP's reviews. They give you the straight deal and the benches are always true (unlike Sharky where he uses different system configurations for different cards...) and he doesn't always use P3 1GHz's...he uses Athlon 700s or P3 550e's@733 or whatever, the stuff that his readers use.
I LOVE anand's reviews, they are better than Kyle's. I read anand's first to get the detail and whatnot. I really like how in the last few months there has been the p3 550e, Athlon 750, and 1GHz P3 in the reviews to show the performance at different levels of CPU power.
Oh, back to the topic at hand, Kyle doesn't take sh!t from anyone. If you don't like his attitude, his realism, his ethics, and his balls to stand up to big daddy nVidia, then don't read it or go there, but you would be missing a lot of truth.
Just MHO.
Bober, true true. Heh, almost forgot about that.
I like anands reviews more than Kyle's for new products, though, when I'm looking at the 12th GeForce2GTS review I don't need to read a whole shiznitload of details cuz I've already seen em in the previous 11. That is what I like about HardOCP's reviews. They give you the straight deal and the benches are always true (unlike Sharky where he uses different system configurations for different cards...) and he doesn't always use P3 1GHz's...he uses Athlon 700s or P3 550e's@733 or whatever, the stuff that his readers use. I LOVE anand's reviews, they are better than Kyle's. I read anand's first to get the detail and whatnot. I really like how in the last few months there has been the p3 550e, Athlon 750, and 1GHz P3 in the reviews to show the performance at different levels of CPU power.
Oh, back to the topic at hand, Kyle doesn't take sh!t from anyone. If you don't like his attitude, his realism, his ethics, and his balls to stand up to big daddy nVidia, then don't read it or go there, but you would be missing a lot of truth.
Just MHO.
Bober, true true.
Heh, almost forgot about that.Boberfett: You cannot compare what Bubba does to what Nvidia does. These are disgruntled webmasters airing their dirty laundry, in this case personal emails, which I find very tacky. Bubba, who is a public representative for 3dfx, was busy making statements himself, to the public. Nvidia has not done that that I am aware of.
personally I'd rather here some moron making stupid public statements (but ones that he prolly believes himself) than having a company restrict what we, the consumer, can see! :|
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