HardOCP Slammed by Futuremark!

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Chumster

Senior member
Apr 29, 2001
496
0
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
HardOCP is going to go bankrupt with free speech.. that consol maker already cost them 100K and this one will be even more/

Wow, 100K? Got Link?

<edit>
While I'm at it - whether or not you believe Futuremark is teh suck, you gotta side with HardOCP on this one. If he backs down, it just encourages that type of litigious strong arm behavior. What's next? Intel sues Anand because he pans a CPU?
</edit>


Chum
 

gururu

Platinum Member
Jul 16, 2002
2,402
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0
Originally posted by: nitromullet
I dunno, I kind of find this funny. Picking on FutureMark is popular, like picking on Microsoft. Yet, all of you probably already have 3DMark05, which came out last week and you run on your WindowsXP box.

It makes you sound like you are a gaming purist to put down 3DMark, but as a benchmark, 3DMark does tell you where your system stands in relation to other systems. For the most part a higher score in 3DMark does mean that your rig will game better than a rig with a lower score. 3DMark in itself is fine and used as part of an evalutation can give you insight into the performance of your hardware, it's review sites and endusers who use 3DMarks as gospel that are the problem.

totally agree. not just that, but everyone who says HardOCP sucks seems to have an opinion on the content of their site. So do the HardOCP defenders that hate HardOCP even know what's printed? I read HardOCP daily. Love their site. Love 3dMark. Hate when Kyle makes some asinine comment on 3DMark.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
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Maybe they already been injuncted:) Seriously thier site is down for me ATM..:Q

anyway here's techreport talking about it

http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/6373

"KB Networks has spent approximately $150,000 on litigation fighting over jurisdiction. On the very deadline to produce Court Ordered documents, Infinium Labs waived previously asserted objections to jurisdiction in hopes of avoiding production of the documents. Our attorneys believe Infinium Labs never had any basis for alleging they were not subject to jurisdiction in Texas, that KB Networks is entitled to the documents, and that the subject documents will likely include evidence of investor fraud, SEC violations, and that Timothy Roberts is the alter ego of Infinium Labs. "
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Zebo
Maybe they already been injuncted:) Seriously thier site is down for me ATM..:Q

anyway here's techreport talking about it

http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/6373

"KB Networks has spent approximately $150,000 on litigation fighting over jurisdiction. On the very deadline to produce Court Ordered documents, Infinium Labs waived previously asserted objections to jurisdiction in hopes of avoiding production of the documents. Our attorneys believe Infinium Labs never had any basis for alleging they were not subject to jurisdiction in Texas, that KB Networks is entitled to the documents, and that the subject documents will likely include evidence of investor fraud, SEC violations, and that Timothy Roberts is the alter ego of Infinium Labs. "

ii saw their link to techreport . . . . and read VERY carefully EVERYTHING on the index page . . . . Nuthin' on the original comments that inspired FM's thread.

The site is very slow loading and i think whatever kyle said is probably taken down (HardOCP has lawyers, also) ;)
 

yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
18,409
39
91
Originally posted by: nitromullet
I dunno, I kind of find this funny. Picking on FutureMark is popular, like picking on Microsoft. Yet, all of you probably already have 3DMark05, which came out last week and you run on your WindowsXP box.

It makes you sound like you are a gaming purist to put down 3DMark, but as a benchmark, 3DMark does tell you where your system stands in relation to other systems. For the most part a higher score in 3DMark does mean that your rig will game better than a rig with a lower score. 3DMark in itself is fine and used as part of an evalutation can give you insight into the performance of your hardware, it's review sites and endusers who use 3DMarks as gospel that are the problem.

Just about any game out there can do the same, albiet more accurately.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Zebo
Maybe they already been injuncted:) Seriously thier site is down for me ATM..:Q

anyway here's techreport talking about it

http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/6373

"KB Networks has spent approximately $150,000 on litigation fighting over jurisdiction. On the very deadline to produce Court Ordered documents, Infinium Labs waived previously asserted objections to jurisdiction in hopes of avoiding production of the documents. Our attorneys believe Infinium Labs never had any basis for alleging they were not subject to jurisdiction in Texas, that KB Networks is entitled to the documents, and that the subject documents will likely include evidence of investor fraud, SEC violations, and that Timothy Roberts is the alter ego of Infinium Labs. "

ii saw their link to techreport . . . . and read VERY carefully EVERYTHING on the index page . . . . Nuthin' on the original comments that inspired FM's thread.

The site is very slow loading and i think whatever kyle said is probably taken down (HardOCP has lawyers, also) ;)



Is this english? :p

Guys asked me for proof KB has spent over 100K just defending one slapp suit. I provided it..

Here's the direct link to KB's site

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Njcx


Quote:

KB Networks has spent approximately $150,000 on litigation fighting over jurisdiction. On the very deadline to produce Court Ordered documents, Infinium Labs waived previously asserted objections to jurisdiction in hopes of avoiding production of the documents. Our attorneys believe Infinium Labs never had any basis for alleging they were not subject to jurisdiction in Texas, that KB Networks is entitled to the documents, and that the subject documents will likely include evidence of investor fraud, SEC violations, and that Timothy Roberts is the alter ego of Infinium Labs.

Monday, October 4, 2004
Date

Miscellaneous
Categories

Infinium Labs
Manufacturers

Kyle Bennett
Author



Below you will find the body of the motion as our attorneys at the law firm of Storm and Hemingway filed it with the U.S. Federal Court here in Dallas, TX.






Should you wish to see the entire document with all of the supporting evidence, you can download the zipped PDF here.



 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Zebo
Maybe they already been injuncted:) Seriously thier site is down for me ATM..:Q

anyway here's techreport talking about it

http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/6373

"KB Networks has spent approximately $150,000 on litigation fighting over jurisdiction. On the very deadline to produce Court Ordered documents, Infinium Labs waived previously asserted objections to jurisdiction in hopes of avoiding production of the documents. Our attorneys believe Infinium Labs never had any basis for alleging they were not subject to jurisdiction in Texas, that KB Networks is entitled to the documents, and that the subject documents will likely include evidence of investor fraud, SEC violations, and that Timothy Roberts is the alter ego of Infinium Labs. "

ii saw their link to techreport . . . . and read VERY carefully EVERYTHING on the index page . . . . Nuthin' on the original comments that inspired FM's thread.

The site is very slow loading and i think whatever kyle said is probably taken down (HardOCP has lawyers, also) ;)



Is this english? :p

Guys asked me for proof KB has spent over 100K just defending one slapp suit. I provided it..

Here's the direct link to KB's site

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Njcx


Quote:

KB Networks has spent approximately $150,000 on litigation fighting over jurisdiction. On the very deadline to produce Court Ordered documents, Infinium Labs waived previously asserted objections to jurisdiction in hopes of avoiding production of the documents. Our attorneys believe Infinium Labs never had any basis for alleging they were not subject to jurisdiction in Texas, that KB Networks is entitled to the documents, and that the subject documents will likely include evidence of investor fraud, SEC violations, and that Timothy Roberts is the alter ego of Infinium Labs.

Monday, October 4, 2004
Date

Miscellaneous
Categories

Infinium Labs
Manufacturers

Kyle Bennett
Author



Below you will find the body of the motion as our attorneys at the law firm of Storm and Hemingway filed it with the U.S. Federal Court here in Dallas, TX.






Should you wish to see the entire document with all of the supporting evidence, you can download the zipped PDF here.
are you replying to me?

I was asking about Kyle's article/editorial that supposedly slandered FutureMark, NOT the info on the lawsuit (which i mentioned i DID read).

My engrish mo betta, now?

:roll:

Sorry for the misunderstanding (i might have caused by not being clearer). :eek:

:)


 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,003
126
Whether or not 3DMark sucks as a benchmark is irrelevant; it's Kyle's site and he can put up whatever he likes there (within the bounds of local/international law of course). Saying something sucks is not illegal.
 

gsellis

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2003
6,061
0
0
Originally posted by: BFG10K
Whether or not 3DMark sucks as a benchmark is irrelevant; it's Kyle's site and he can put up whatever he likes there (within the bounds of local/international law of course). Saying something sucks is not illegal.
You are correct in that you might not get arrested for saying someone sucks. Therefore it is not illegal. BUT, if by saying someone sucks does them harm, and it can be shown that they in fact do not suck, your butt can be monetarily responsible for their loses because of your actions. Actions have consequences. You can get arrested for saying someone sucks and there is a court order that says you cannot say that anymore (because you said it before and they proved in a court of law that you were doing them harm and will continue to do them harm without protection from the courts).

Freedom of Speech only protects you from disagreeing with the government, as we are its master, not the other way around.

Edit - spell check, dang lysdexia
 

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,666
21
81
For the most part a higher score in 3DMark does mean that your rig will game better than a rig with a lower score.

How does sticking your video card options on the most poorest quality, ramping up your Intel FSB on dual channel, while god knows what other things those people have tweaked to have the scores higher just for bragging rights?

I don't know about you, but I didn't buy a 6800 GT to play games at 1024x768 with minimal quality.


In this regard, 3DMark03's Battle of Proxicon benchmark did provide us with insight as to Doom3 performace which can clearly be seen by comparing benchmarks of the two now that the game is out.

How so? The demo of the Battle of Proxicon stuttered on my A64 + 6800 GT at the lowest settings while im playing D3 at 1600x1200 High Quality @ 60 FPS.

And how about the whole shader ordeal? Compare a 9600XT to any Nvidia FX then tell me why Nvidia even bothered to put the FX's out on market.
 

Pete

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
4,953
0
0
Originally posted by: apoppin
Doea ANYONE have a link to the ORIGINAL ARTICLE that Kyle wrote that FM is threatening to sue over?

?
I don't know if FM is threatening to sue over (just) the original editorial, but here it is. I also haven't been to H in a while, and don't know what they've written about 3DM05, but considering Tero's email to Kyle included a pic of H's front page, I'd imagine his front page posts are a big source of FM's consternation.

Obviously I disagree with Kyle's (reasons for his) opinion of 3DM03's utility. I don't imagine he's changed his position since then, so he probably views 3DM05 the same way.
 

Bumrush99

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2004
3,334
194
106
3dmark sucks, it is a worthless benchmark.

Suing HardOCP would be an idiotic move on their part, nothing but bad publicity...
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
FM Apologizes!
To everyone at HardOCP
Please accept my sincererest apologies for myself reacting the way I did yesterday morning and for sending those emails to Kyle that he posted on the news page. I would like to hereby let everyone know that I am withdrawing all of that. Also, I feel that I owe everyone an explanation of why it happened.

For years, we have been trying to get constructive cooperation going with the HardOCP team. However, for one reason or another none of these attempts have succeeded. So, naturally we have been little bit frustrated by it. Then, I again saw a newspost yesterday morning with just a statement that our product sucks without any explanation or argumentation or technical reason of why they so think.

This just caused an immediate, and I have to add, rather immature, reaction in myself and I sent off those emails without really thinking.

So, as a summary, I hope that we can all move forward from here. We do wish more constructive critique and I would like to emphasize that we really encourage everyone to send and publish any and all feedback, good or bad, as long as it is reasonably argumented, since only that helps this industry move forward.

Sincerely,



Tero Sarkkinen

So now you know (if you haven't seen it in GH) ;)
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
That's called CYA.;)

Best way to tell what someones all about is go golfing with them, have a few beers, or get them angry.. FM already showed waht thier all about by firing off an angry emotional reponse. .
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,003
126
BUT, if by saying someone sucks does them harm, and it can be shown that they in fact do not suck,
And you would prove this how?

Hint: check the dictionary definition of "suck".

Actions have consequences.
Yes they do, in the form of a counter-suit.
 

ZimZum

Golden Member
Aug 2, 2001
1,281
0
76
Originally posted by: gsellis
Originally posted by: BFG10K
BUT, if by saying someone sucks does them harm, and it can be shown that they in fact do not suck,
And you would prove this how?
In a court in front of a juror or jurorist (judge).

I think what he is getting at is, saying someone or something "sucks" is more a statement of opinion rather than fact. You would have a hard time disproving it in court.

It would be like the Boston Red Sox suing a sports web site for saying " The Red Sox suck".
 

gsellis

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2003
6,061
0
0
Originally posted by: ZimZum
Originally posted by: gsellis
Originally posted by: BFG10K
BUT, if by saying someone sucks does them harm, and it can be shown that they in fact do not suck,
And you would prove this how?
In a court in front of a juror or jurorist (judge).

I think what he is getting at is, saying someone or something "sucks" is more a statement of opinion rather than fact. You would have a hard time disproving it in court.

It would be like the Boston Red Sox suing a sports web site for saying " The Red Sox suck".
Here is a fairly good reference:

cyberlibel
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,003
126
In a court in front of a juror or jurorist (judge).
In order to convict someone for saying something sucks the collective intelligence of the above individuals would have to be lower than that of a Gerbil.
 

gsellis

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2003
6,061
0
0
Originally posted by: BFG10K
In a court in front of a juror or jurorist (judge).
In order to convict someone for saying something sucks the collective intelligence of the above individuals would have to be lower than that of a Gerbil.
Of course, you do realize that when I said 'sucks', I did not ACTUALLY mean the word 'sucks', right? ;)