HARDOCP 2900xt Review! (a proper review)

[Dent0n]

I also like HOCP, 3DMark is meaningless to real gamers. Instead of poring over 26-page dissertations you can use a drop-down list and click "page x - Oblivion" and get an instant real-world idea of how far you can push your card.

I don't understand why people bash it when they also include apples-to-apples comparisons.

 

[Munky]

HARDOCP and "proper review" are mutually exclusive.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Everyone bashes Hardocps review style. I like that they do things differently. Most sites just post FPS scores for 3Dmark, HL2, Oblivion and maybe a few other of the same.

It would be nice if every site had a truly unique review style.

We bash HCP because its like handing out different exams to every student in school, and then trying to compare them :roll:

Its impossible, you get absolutely no info from their reviews, I dont care what Kyle thinks is playable or not, if I intend to buy the card, I will try the settings myself and chose what fits me best

So it's better to see what FPS a card gets on a $10,000 Quad Core System with 10gb of ram? I don't see what that will tell you either. Running a demo and recording the FPS is not going to give you a good picture overall. It's like using a canned World of Warcraft benchmark that gets xxx FPS and then you log into a 40 man raid and suddenly your system grinds to a halt.

 

[AmdInside]

apoppin = Rollo's twin brother (who hated being confused with his twin brother so he went to work for ATI instead of NVIDIA).

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Everyone bashes Hardocps review style. I like that they do things differently. Most sites just post FPS scores for 3Dmark, HL2, Oblivion and maybe a few other of the same.

It would be nice if every site had a truly unique review style.

We bash HCP because its like handing out different exams to every student in school, and then trying to compare them :roll:

Its impossible, you get absolutely no info from their reviews, I dont care what Kyle thinks is playable or not, if I intend to buy the card, I will try the settings myself and chose what fits me best

So it's better to see what FPS a card gets on a $10,000 Quad Core System with 10gb of ram? I don't see what that will tell you either. Running a demo and recording the FPS is not going to give you a good picture overall. It's like using a canned World of Warcraft benchmark that gets xxx FPS and then you log into a 40 man raid and suddenly your system grinds to a halt.

I wasnt talking about the Super Pcs they use, but for your second point, yes Id rather use the "canned" benchmark, because if card A is better than card B in said benchmark, it will also likely be faster in the "40 man raid" scenario

And yes I am bitter towards Kyle, he deserves no respect, and I cant stand how the sheep over @ their forums treat him like some kind of Idol... (I was banned from there obviously, guess why)

HCP is different just for the sake of being different, its like me going to work with a pajama... Different? Sure... Retarded as hell? YES!

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Everyone bashes Hardocps review style. I like that they do things differently. Most sites just post FPS scores for 3Dmark, HL2, Oblivion and maybe a few other of the same.

It would be nice if every site had a truly unique review style.

We bash HCP because its like handing out different exams to every student in school, and then trying to compare them :roll:

Its impossible, you get absolutely no info from their reviews, I dont care what Kyle thinks is playable or not, if I intend to buy the card, I will try the settings myself and chose what fits me best

So it's better to see what FPS a card gets on a $10,000 Quad Core System with 10gb of ram? I don't see what that will tell you either. Running a demo and recording the FPS is not going to give you a good picture overall. It's like using a canned World of Warcraft benchmark that gets xxx FPS and then you log into a 40 man raid and suddenly your system grinds to a halt.

ROFL

What kind of idiot would draw such a conclusion from a view card review in the first place?

 

[Captante]

Based on everything I've seen from reliable sources theres very little doubt ATI has lost this round ... the only thing to hope for is that driver updates will improve things quite a bit, or that the cards performance when overclocked is dramatically improved & sadly I think hoping for a strong comeback with R700 is more realistic.

Bottom line is that this is terrible news for all PC gaming enthusiests because with no real competition in the high end theres nothing to stop Nvidia from jacking prices through the roof & we'll be the ones that pay.

 

[Regs]

Nvidia will not jack the prices on current cards. Though it does give nvidia to call first debs and have incredible pricing position for the next round which will be far worse from the 7000/8000 transition.

The 8800GTX (640 or) 768 will be the value card of the next round at 350-420 dollars, while the high-end DX10 cards will easily be around 500+ dollars. Why? Because it's DX10 baby!! Basically all Nvidia has to do is eliminate support for a few cards, re-arrange their segments a little, and you have 300-400 dollar value editions of the high end cards.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Captante
Based on everything I've seen from reliable sources theres very little doubt ATI has lost this round ... the only thing to hope for is that driver updates will improve things quite a bit, or that the cards performance when overclocked is dramatically improved & sadly I think hoping for a strong comeback with R700 is more realistic.

Bottom line is that this is terrible news for all PC gaming enthusiests because with no real competition in the high end theres nothing to stop Nvidia from jacking prices through the roof & we'll be the ones that pay.

both negative reviews ?

or else you didn't read much of the conclusions ... or just stopped with the 'faults'
:roll:

HDXT competes with GTS very well ... it is a SUB $400 card ... not GTX - a $600 card

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: Regs
Nvidia will not jack the prices on current cards. Though it does give nvidia to call first debs and have incredible pricing position for the next round which will be far worse from the 7000/8000 transition.

The 8800GTX (640 or) 768 will be the value card of the next round at 350-420 dollars, while the high-end DX10 cards will easily be around 500+ dollars. Why? Because it's DX10 baby!! Basically all Nvidia has to do is eliminate support for a few cards, re-arrange their segments a little, and you have 300-400 dollar value editions of the high end cards.

so forgetful already? GTX was $600+ when it came out,lol

 

[soybeast]

hey nemesismk2, when's HIS silent solution coming out and where did you hear about it? Thanks

 

[Regs]

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: Regs
Nvidia will not jack the prices on current cards. Though it does give nvidia to call first debs and have incredible pricing position for the next round which will be far worse from the 7000/8000 transition.

The 8800GTX (640 or) 768 will be the value card of the next round at 350-420 dollars, while the high-end DX10 cards will easily be around 500+ dollars. Why? Because it's DX10 baby!! Basically all Nvidia has to do is eliminate support for a few cards, re-arrange their segments a little, and you have 300-400 dollar value editions of the high end cards.

so forgetful already? GTX was $600+ when it came out,lol

I must of passed out when I've seen 600 and woke up when it was 500.

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Captante
Based on everything I've seen from reliable sources theres very little doubt ATI has lost this round ... the only thing to hope for is that driver updates will improve things quite a bit, or that the cards performance when overclocked is dramatically improved & sadly I think hoping for a strong comeback with R700 is more realistic.

Bottom line is that this is terrible news for all PC gaming enthusiests because with no real competition in the high end theres nothing to stop Nvidia from jacking prices through the roof & we'll be the ones that pay.

both negative reviews ?

or else you didn't read much of the conclusions ... or just stopped with the 'faults'
:roll:

HDXT competes with GTS very well ... it is a SUB $400 card ... not GTX - a $600 card

$399.99 is sub $400? k

while a GTS is still $330


price competition is not the XT's strong point.

 

[mac35]

Am I missing somethign here? 640MB GTSs under $400 are fairly common now and the 2900XT is usually just behind or just ahead of it as far as performance. Yet people are talking about what a great value it (2900XT) is?

In almost every review I've seen the 640MB GTS and the XT run very similarly to each other (very underwhelming) but then in the conclusion section most sites talk about great value and interesting specs/technology. It makes no sense.

If I could buy an established card that runs as good as a more expensive, hotter, more power hungry, newer card, guess what I'm buying?

 

[Regs]

Makes no sense to me either. I see less than steller performance and how great of value it is. I guess it's a pat on the back to AMD for not releasing it as a high end part (because they have none).

If I wanted value I'd get the 320MB GT for 1600x1200 res @ 300.00 . Why on earth would I consider a 400 dollar 2900XT?

 

[schneiderguy]

as usual the HardOCP review was crap. kyle is biased. his benchmarking process sucks. I still don't understand how doing an apples to apples comparison is "bad".

 

[dreddfunk]

If there is value, it will happen only if the HD2900xt drops a bit in price. The GTS has already been on the 'street' so long that it has much more favorable 'street' pricing. If I recall correctly, the GTS debuted higher than $399. I think it debuted at $459. So the 'value' in the 2900xt would be if its street price came down a similar amount, leaving it $30-40 cheaper than the GTS. If the 2900xt settles at around $300, it might be a decent value for some segments of the market. But the current AR prices of the GTS models make them tough to beat if you want a card right now, especially if you game at more mainstream resolutions (sub 16x12).

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Captante
Based on everything I've seen from reliable sources theres very little doubt ATI has lost this round ... the only thing to hope for is that driver updates will improve things quite a bit, or that the cards performance when overclocked is dramatically improved & sadly I think hoping for a strong comeback with R700 is more realistic.

Bottom line is that this is terrible news for all PC gaming enthusiests because with no real competition in the high end theres nothing to stop Nvidia from jacking prices through the roof & we'll be the ones that pay.

both negative reviews ?

or else you didn't read much of the conclusions ... or just stopped with the 'faults'
:roll:

HDXT competes with GTS very well ... it is a SUB $400 card ... not GTX - a $600 card

$399.99 is sub $400? k

while a GTS is still $330


price competition is not the XT's strong point.

try tomorow

it will be

and if it isn't ... in a reasonable time ... and when i want to upgrade ...

--then i will get a GTS

pretty damn simple

i am NOT brand loyal ... i just find this GPU more interesting then 'old news' 8800

 

[golem]

both negative reviews ?

or else you didn't read much of the conclusions ... or just stopped with the 'faults'
:roll:

HDXT competes with GTS very well ... it is a SUB $400 card ... not GTX - a $600 card

At BEST, it trades blows with the GTS, and the GTS is currently about UP TO $70 cheaper. Are you just ignoring the faults and only concentrating on the few games it does really well on?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Captante
Based on everything I've seen from reliable sources theres very little doubt ATI has lost this round ... the only thing to hope for is that driver updates will improve things quite a bit, or that the cards performance when overclocked is dramatically improved & sadly I think hoping for a strong comeback with R700 is more realistic.

Bottom line is that this is terrible news for all PC gaming enthusiests because with no real competition in the high end theres nothing to stop Nvidia from jacking prices through the roof & we'll be the ones that pay.

both negative reviews ?

or else you didn't read much of the conclusions ... or just stopped with the 'faults'
:roll:

HDXT competes with GTS very well ... it is a SUB $400 card ... not GTX - a $600 card

but the GTS is still cheaper and as you say "competes well..." so...yeah

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Captante
Based on everything I've seen from reliable sources theres very little doubt ATI has lost this round ... the only thing to hope for is that driver updates will improve things quite a bit, or that the cards performance when overclocked is dramatically improved & sadly I think hoping for a strong comeback with R700 is more realistic.

Bottom line is that this is terrible news for all PC gaming enthusiests because with no real competition in the high end theres nothing to stop Nvidia from jacking prices through the roof & we'll be the ones that pay.

both negative reviews ?

or else you didn't read much of the conclusions ... or just stopped with the 'faults'
:roll:

HDXT competes with GTS very well ... it is a SUB $400 card ... not GTX - a $600 card

$399.99 is sub $400? k

while a GTS is still $330


price competition is not the XT's strong point.

try tomorow

it will be

and if it isn't ... in a reasonable time ... and when i want to upgrade ...

--then i will get a GTS

pretty damn simple

i am NOT brand loyal ... i just find this GPU more interesting then 'old news' 8800

Sure the new gpu is interesting, still doesnt beat a old card to the ground....... hey refresh is around the corner!! The waiting game continues!

 

[v8envy]

Assuming the HD2900 comes down in street price, there's still the sticky issue of new power supply and power suction. We'll have to wait until enthusiasts with older PSUs get these bad boys, but my guess is the 6 + 8 pin power is necessary not only for overclocking but also for rocklike stability. Insufficient power will cause weird problems.

So, for most people the real cost is: $70 extra for the card, $100+ extra for a new PSU, $20 or so for electricity and cooling per year.

On the plus side there's some value if you're going to pay valve for episode 2 and tf.

Cost, heat and power would be a total non-issue for the #1 performing card, but once you're talking battling for #3 or #4 spot value and $/performance become highly important. From that standpoint the HD2900 is currently a big no go.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Captante
Based on everything I've seen from reliable sources theres very little doubt ATI has lost this round ... the only thing to hope for is that driver updates will improve things quite a bit, or that the cards performance when overclocked is dramatically improved & sadly I think hoping for a strong comeback with R700 is more realistic.

Bottom line is that this is terrible news for all PC gaming enthusiests because with no real competition in the high end theres nothing to stop Nvidia from jacking prices through the roof & we'll be the ones that pay.

both negative reviews ?

or else you didn't read much of the conclusions ... or just stopped with the 'faults'
:roll:

HDXT competes with GTS very well ... it is a SUB $400 card ... not GTX - a $600 card

$399.99 is sub $400? k

while a GTS is still $330


price competition is not the XT's strong point.

try tomorow

it will be

and if it isn't ... in a reasonable time ... and when i want to upgrade ...

--then i will get a GTS

pretty damn simple

i am NOT brand loyal ... i just find this GPU more interesting then 'old news' 8800

Sure the new gpu is interesting, still doesnt beat a old card to the ground....... hey refresh is around the corner!! The waiting game continues!

It's always a hurry up and wait scenerio. The thing of it is there's so much talk about these cards and they're all running DX9 and OGL games. There is no DX10 titles on the market yet. When there are you know there will be a "refresh" and some newer and faster cards on the marketplace.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Regs
Makes no sense to me either. I see less than steller performance and how great of value it is. I guess it's a pat on the back to AMD for not releasing it as a high end part (because they have none).

If I wanted value I'd get the 320MB GT for 1600x1200 res @ 300.00 . Why on earth would I consider a 400 dollar 2900XT?

you *wouldn't* and you *shouldn't*

at this point in time ... say my GPU *DIED* and i had to wait a month for a Sapphire RMA

TODAY ... i would buy a $320 GTS from NewEgg

no regrets

maybe some bitchin' like BFG10K does ... but maybe not

but right NOW ... i am REVIEWING *everything* i can get my eyes focused on ... and i AM looking to upgrading ... soon

i see a *raw* newborn product launched today ... in no worse state than the 8800 when it launched six months ago ... and i see very "near-term" *potential* that i would like to exploit in the next few weeks


perhaps

perhaps not

IF - by some 'VooDoo' - the HD2900XT - stays the same ... doesn't mature, the drivers don't improve, i read of high FAILURE rates ... the price remains high ...
i would be NUTS to EVER get one

but i am *predicting* that this will not be ... that the performance delta will continue to increase over the 640GTS .. especially at high detail ... that it will be a better architecture for DX10 ...

i am picking the *dark horse* candidate

are you guys OK with that

i *know* it is a "dark horse"

it's just that i am *fascinated* by it ... i have been following r600 since ... since ..
just after r300 ... this is "it" ... their "new stuff"

so ... WtF?


is that a Capital Crime ... now ... to root for the underdog ?
--or should i jump on the nvidia "bash AMD" bandwagon?

i have *no experience* with AMD .... and i feel ATi is SO gone

and i always much preferred "intel inside" ... so ...



it ain't a marriage ... it is a $350 G-D video card

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Regs
Makes no sense to me either. I see less than steller performance and how great of value it is. I guess it's a pat on the back to AMD for not releasing it as a high end part (because they have none).

If I wanted value I'd get the 320MB GT for 1600x1200 res @ 300.00 . Why on earth would I consider a 400 dollar 2900XT?

you *wouldn't* and you *shouldn't*

at this point in time ... say my GPU *DIED* and i had to wait a month for a Sapphire RMA

TODAY ... i would buy a $320 GTS from NewEgg

no regrets

maybe some bitchin' like BFG10K does ... but maybe not

but right NOW ... i am REVIEWING *everything* i can get my eyes focused on ... and i AM looking to upgrading ... soon

i see a *raw* newborn product launched today ... in no worse state than the 8800 when it launched six months ago ... and i see very "near-term" *potential* that i would like to exploit in the next few weeks


perhaps

perhaps not

IF - by some 'VooDoo' - the HD2900XT - stays the same ... doesn't mature, the drivers don't improve, i read of high FAILURE rates ... the price remains high ...
i would be NUTS to EVER get one

but i am *predicting* that this will not be ... that the performance delta will continue to increase over the 640GTS .. especially at high detail ... that it will be a better architecture for DX10 ...

i am picking the *dark horse* candidate

are you guys OK with that

i *know* it is a "dark horse"

it's just that i am *fascinated* by it ... i have been following r600 since ... since ..
just after r300 ... this is "it" ... their "new stuff"

so ... WtF?


is that a Capital Crime ... now ... to root for the underdog ?
--or should i jump on the nvidia "bash AMD" bandwagon?

i have *no experience* with AMD .... and i feel ATi is SO gone

and i always much preferred "intel inside" ... so ...



it ain't a marriage ... it is a $350 G-D video card

sorry but your posts are impossible to read...anyone wanna translate? :disgust: