Hard drive troubles - Hitachi 180GXP bites the dust. Assitance is requested.

[Jeff7]

Someone called me, with hard drive troubles. A drive I installed, a warranty replacement drive from Hitachi, a 180GXP 92.6GB drive, was dying.

Here's a sound clip I recorded. (183KB)

The drive spins up normally, but then the heads start repeating the same seek pattern indefinitely; it is not detected by the computer.

My diagnosis is that the platters and motor are working fine, but that the external circuit board is defective. Replacing this circuit board should solve the problem then, correct? The customer has data on it that they want, and are willing to give up the remaining 4 months of warranty to try to get the data back.
What are the chances of a circuit board replacement working? How specific a replacement do I need? The model number is IC35L090AVV207-0. Is matching that up with another drive sufficient? Or do I need to match something else?

 

[Viper96720]

I had a maxtor that did that in one computer. Worked fine in another. The computers cpu had something wrong. Because used another drive and it did the same thing. Try the HD in another computer just in case.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Viper96720
I had a maxtor that did that in one computer. Worked fine in another. The computers cpu had something wrong. Because used another drive and it did the same thing. Try the HD in another computer just in case.

It's not that - it makes the same sound with or without an IDE cable. And I have tried it with an external IDE->USB adapter - same thing.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: Jeff7My diagnosis is that the platters and motor are working fine, but that the external circuit board is defective. Replacing this circuit board should solve the problem then, correct?

Honestly? That's rather unlikely. The most-likely cause is that the platters have lost their low-level formatting information for one or more sectors, and then when the servo tries to seek to them, it gets "lost", and then the drive attempts to recalibrate and re-seek. That is what the majority of the "IBM click of death" issue was with the 75GXP drives, besides any production problems/defects. The biggest issue was firmware, there were some bugs, that could cause the drive to zero the head towards the landing-zone, with write-current on the head still active, among other things. That would cause it to "wipe" a nice spiral over the platter, much like a bulk-erase tool would (except with a smaller field), and likely destroy the low-level formatting/servo info from those sectors as well. Another possibility is that the second-stage firmware for the drive, which is stored on the platters themselves, has become corrupted, possibly by the same sort of issue. In some cases, it might be possible to re-flash and restore those corrupted firmware sectors, or at least somehow get them remapped to sectors with valid low-level format info on them. (Edit: forgot to mention, media/head damage can also cause that sort of problem. Did the drive, at any time, make a loud clunk/pop/smack sound, like a "head crash"?)

There are some toolkits to attempt to repair HDs like IBMs and Maxtors with corrupted firmware, I think it is called "PC3000" or something like that.

Have you downloaded DFT yet and run it on the drive? Some guy wrote a "dftview" program that can interpret the binary log file results.

You might also try storagereview.com for info, they specialize in this sort of thing.

Originally posted by: Jeff7The customer has data on it that they want, and are willing to give up the remaining 4 months of warranty to try to get the data back. What are the chances of a circuit board replacement working? How specific a replacement do I need? The model number is IC35L090AVV207-0. Is matching that up with another drive sufficient? Or do I need to match something else?

Does the drive identify itself to the host system when powered-on and checked by the BIOS? If it does, and the motor spins up and you can hear the heads seeking (except that it constantly loops, making click-spin noises), then the PCB is most likely not defective, and a swap is unlikely to fix your problem. Sorry. Check out that PC3000 HD toolkit. link

 

[Jeff7]

Have you downloaded DFT yet and run it on the drive? Some guy wrote a "dftview" program that can interpret the binary log file results.

I haven't bothered downloading anything to test it - the system can't see the drive. It looks and looks, until it simply times out and gives up. All the while, the drive just keeps doing this click-bonk cycle, unfazed by the probings of the IDE channel.

With or without an IDE cable attached, the drive makes the exact same sounds. It is not detected by the systems I've tried it on, which also includes an IDE->USB adapter. They all look for it - they can tell that something is attached, so I assume anyway, as they keep trying to query the device, but they can't ID it.


As for loud sounds, it wasn't in my system when it died, but they didn't report any loud noises, and I didn't hear anything when I tried it out. I have heard a head crash - the drive that this one replaced (RMA) had a head crash. And after the heads crashed into the platters, they kept scraping across....a horrible sound indeed. But this drive doesn't have that, luckily.


And that PC3000 thing presents a challenge - I don't own a single system with an ISA slot.

 

[VirtualLarry]

From Basic HDD malfunctions :

Construction-related malfunctions
Bad contact in pin connector between PCB and preamplifier chip connected to magnetic heads' assembly. The consequences of a poor contact may be quite numerous. First of all, it causes appearance of bad sectors. But those sectors differ from common defects caused by poor surface quality. The difference manifests itself in the fact that the surface remains intact but bad contact causes recording of invalid data to service bytes of some sectors, e.g. to the field containing CRC code of the sector. The problem may also lead to corruption of firmware data, which cannot be restored by the drive itself during the next power-up; besides, there is no user mode for such restoration. Firmware data of a drive can be restored in the factory mode only.
Poor quality of chips? soldering at the factory. Such workmanship flaw becomes obvious as a rule approximately after a year of drive operation. It is usually manifested in lack of contact, i.e. after some period of normal operation a drive either switches off and does not start again (?hangs?) or begins to produce knocking sounds with its heads; the latter situation may result in damage to its mechanical parts. Just like the previous flow it may also cause firmware corruption.

I have a feeling that may be the problem that you are experiencing. (Edit: reading futher, they do suggest a PCBA swap as part of the diagnosis for "head clicking", to determine whether or not the PCBA or HDA is at fault. link Well, do that at your own risk, I guess, because I've killed a pair of older WD 1GB drives doing that as an experiment once. )

 

[montag451]

you could try spinrite 6 - i think it was made for a problem like this

Wishing you the best of luck - but dont feel guilty - all you did was fit the drive into someone else's computer.
If their data was that valuable, THEY shoulda backed it up, shouldn't they?

 

[montag451]

AND if it ain't friends or family, then make sure you charge them for your time.
[which must be more valuable than their data if they didn't back up the data]

why am i in such a bad mood?

 

[Jeff7]

you could try spinrite 6 - i think it was made for a problem like this

Again, it'd do no good - all the utilities available need the BIOS to detect the drive first, and that's not happening.

This whole thing just sucks, because I don't think it was even two months that this drive was in there - fresh replacement from Hitachi, and it's half-dead now. I ran a full check on the thing too - surface scan, a few formats, and a SMART check before the drive ever made it to their house. It was fine. Now it decides to die. Thanks for the quality stuff, Hitachi.

 

[Jeff7]

Next day....bump time!

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
Again, it'd do no good - all the utilities available need the BIOS to detect the drive first, and that's not happening.

That's why I suggested that PC-3000 thingy, it's the only thing that I know of (outside of whatever proprietary tools the mfg has) to work on drives that don't show up in the BIOS. I wish you luck in your quest.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: Jeff7
Again, it'd do no good - all the utilities available need the BIOS to detect the drive first, and that's not happening.

That's why I suggested that PC-3000 thingy, it's the only thing that I know of (outside of whatever proprietary tools the mfg has) to work on drives that don't show up in the BIOS. I wish you luck in your quest.

I sent them "registration info" or whatever it is that they ask for for a price list; they don't seem to want anyone to actually purchase their products there.

I have a feeling that may be the problem that you are experiencing. (Edit: reading futher, they do suggest a PCBA swap as part of the diagnosis for "head clicking", to determine whether or not the PCBA or HDA is at fault. link Well, do that at your own risk, I guess, because I've killed a pair of older WD 1GB drives doing that as an experiment once

That's why I'm figuring (or hoping) that it's not a platter problem, and just a PC problem. Hitachi said that they won't send out replacement circuit boards, but they pointed me to this place that might have what I need. They also are a place that won't outright give prices on anything - they do "quotes" on everything. :roll:
I just really hope I can get this data back. The family had years of pictures stored on their main hard drive, and they wanted another one, because they were running out of room. So I sold them this one. They had it for a little over a month, with all the data freshly moved over to it, and now this.

When the thing died (don't know if this helps), the PC would time out on BOTH hard drives - the IBM was connected as a slave drive, on the same chain as the master (they have two optical drives already). But the BIOS couldn't see either drive then. That also made me wonder that it was a problem with the PCB.


Secondary question: How do I find the part number of the PCB? There are two stickers on the IDE connector has two stickers on it:

08K2592
H71468_
Md8331
N8LC


and the other one:
373298M
ASSEMBLY MADE
IN CHINA



I'm fairly sure that the "made in china" part isn't a part number...but I don't know about the others.


Ah, I do see some tiny numbers on the PCB itself now:
F 36H6529 01

Wonder if that's what I'm looking for.

 

[Jeff7]

Troubling update:

This site has two sound clips. One is of a drive with buffer corruption. The other is the infamouns click of death. The click of death sounds frighteningly familiar.

And looking at the two waveforms in Goldwave...it looks too familiar.


And this also isn't good, because the drive was likely powered on for many hours, click-bonking. The owners of this computer probably wouldn't recognize a head crash in progress, at least until the PC blue-screened. This problem was noticed only when someone tried to write to the drive, which doesn't happen too often, as it was just for extra storage of pictures and such.

 

[Googer]

I have heard that sound before on onther hard drive brands, usualy it means it is on its last leg. Run the IBM/ Hitachi Drive Fitness Test and Find out. Get it here @ HGST.com
or get the Ultimate Boot CD It is included on the ISO. Be sure to get the full version not the half baked one. They are both free.

http://ubcd.sourceforge.net/


ftp://mirror.web-ster.com/ubcd/3.1/ubcd31-full.exe

 

[Googer]

Download this and make a boot CD out of it. On the disc is the Hard Drive Utilties provided by many Drive makers including yours

ftp://mirror.web-ster.com/ubcd/3.1/ubcd31-full.exe

 

[Jeff7]

If the drive can't be detected, a drive test won't do anything for it.

 

[kef7]

I'm having similar issues with a 200gig W-D. It is sometimes seen in BIOS and sometimes not but either way makes the clicking noise repeatedly. If it is seen in BIOS it usually hangs on bootup; even if it does get to the desktop the failing drive is no longer there.

I got spinrite to run once but it locked up.

 

[imported_Phil]

It's possible that the drive has lost the servo tracks, and I'm not sure you'll be able to recover from that. A PCB swap might sort it, but it's a 50/50 chance.

[Edit2] I'm going to change my mind again and say click-of-death. The sound sample you posted sound exactly like C-O-D, and then I listened to the other samples which confirms it, for me at least.

 

[Assimilator1]

Why waste money on a PCB swap that may or may not work?

If they really want the data off those disks then can't you send the HDD to a data recovery firm? (so they can remove the disks & pull the data off)
Or is that horribly expensive?

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Assimilator1
Why waste money on a PCB swap that may or may not work?

If they really want the data off those disks then can't you send the HDD to a data recovery firm? (so they can remove the disks & pull the data off)
Or is that horribly expensive?

Somewhere around $1000. Maybe more. So yeah. Horribly expensive.

 

[Assimilator1]

Ekk!:Q

I see what you mean!

 

[2kreative]

I've the exact same problem......except I've two that do that! Swapped out pcb doesn't work so don't waste your time. At this point in time I'm thinking on using them to prop up a broken sofa! I've come to accept that if I dont hand out the money for a recovery I aint gonna get my databack (4 years of graphics work). *Sigh* I just joined up to tell ya thatl

 

[aCeaLe]

 

[aCeaLe]

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!! ITSSSSS WORKKSSSSSSSS
i have to tell my story....
first of all, i have to tell that i'm argentine and i don't! speak english very well, i only read....but here we go.....
about one year i buy a 180gxp aka deathstar and like everyone in this post..dies.. i think....ok i have sata connectors in my mb so lets go! buy another new brand barracuda 7200.7 sata 120gb...and the ibm...to the garbage bag (my closet...)
the problem was the same'o, clicking to dead, noisy hd but in my case, i did put out my data from the ibm and transfer to the barracuda...and i don't have the time to playing around with , so
i put away the ibm...
but now.....now i'm boring....are actually the 7.20am from a monday that i didn't sleep, i have to finish a pc from a client in order to give @ 8am...and i finish @ 5am..so i believe that if i have to play 3 hours at carom3d..i remain slept...so i go to catch my ibm and...revive???
i first think about the problem was...like every1 it's a logic problem...but why affect the servo? so i think about the bios/firmware..
and i look for bios @ google...and i remember that in station drivers i had foud a bios one time...so i go to that and i download again (after i found in my barracuda the same file downloaded 1 year before)
and i look the hd and the config of the jumpers, and if you look they have a config that disable autospin....with that you can detect from mb bios but the hd itselft dont work and don't spin(dohh)...and its detect like a 0mb disk....and since i mount in my desk with the logic upside..i don't see the cils heads etc..so i flipdown and there we go....i slip and strike @ the desk and stop at all..mb bios didn't recognize..nothing...
hmmmm @ this point....i was a killer... but i create the flopy disk from the firmware that i have found in station drivers ( they are from dell . here the link : ftp://ftp.us.dell.com/ide/BR64013.exe )
and boot from there..it detects the ibm!!! yupiii
finish the program..reboot.. and still detects like 0mb hd
i put the jumpers back to 16cil primary hd and boot again waiting the noisy sound from hd...but nothing....and....probably my best moment ever....my mb bios tells me that have found a 82gb disk!!
yeaaaa
i boot from win98cd and.....still the files from 2 years ago in there...i can't believe that.......
so...i don't know what works in this....my slip knock to the desktop table....or the firmware upgrade....or both....
but...its works =o)
so if you have the same problems.... puts the jumpers to auto spin disable... download and make the floppy drive from the dell ftp....starts.....let it works.....back the jumpers to normal...and see whats happends...if don't works...grab a little hammer...and...well....you know....;o) (noooo, don't kill the hd, just a little knock...hheheh).....

 

[aCeaLe]

any questions??? msn ace_ale@hotmail.com