Soccerman06
Diamond Member
- Jul 29, 2004
- 5,830
- 5
- 81
Originally posted by: SmoochyTX
Purposely getting people riled up on tonight of all nights about religion is pretty sad. I didn't take you for that kind of AT member Tami.Originally posted by: tami
Originally posted by: swimscubasteve
Originally posted by: tami
aw
but apparently i said a crazy thing.
It's possible it was a bit much for ATOT. Now over at chabadtalk.com (or habadtalk.com, right?)...
too much info = sometimes good.
ATOT is more fun.
it's my comic relief.
i also don't come here that often anymore so when i do, i need to leave with a BANG!
habadtalk.com... wonder if that domain is registered... maybe it will be profitable to buy that one
assuming that i am that kind of person is something i didn't take you as, either. obviously i'm trying to be a little light-hearted in light of the well-lit holidays... (note a theme?) what i wrote does disturb me, or else i wouldn't have spent a considerable amount of time writing it. however, i'm not going to cry over it... there's more to life than that.
so i cut my losses since i can't convince everyone and start being joyous because well, i don't have work tomorrow
however, i'm a little disappointed in you that you think that i'm "purposely getting people riled up." you think i'm not riled up? you're sadly mistaken.
by the way, "tonight of all nights" has no significance to me as i do not celebrate christmas. to me, it's just a regular sunday night, except that i don't have to wake up early for work tomorrow.
thanks for your confidence in me... have a merry christmas.
[edit above in bold]
MotionMan
Lifer
- Jan 11, 2006
- 17,124
- 12
- 81
Originally posted by: tami
Originally posted by: JohnCU
i'm sorry to offend anyone, but i have one jewish friend close to me and wanted to have a jewish holiday thread on ATOT and he spells it hanukkah.
john- fair enough. here's my impression, and this has always been a gripe of mine, so i might as well get it out in the open.
there are far too few jews who actually take jewish identity seriously. judaism is far more advanced than celebrating a few holidays. it is a religion. there's prayer. there's dietary restrictions. there's another language. there's a lunar calendar. there's a day of rest (sabbath - where you don't use electricity among other things). above all, there's education.
i am happy that people embrace the little judaism they have in their lives, but what disturbs me the most is when i am constantly challenged by my jewish coworkers or peers who are always asking me to do that which is different from the normal "observances" that i keep, like being online on the holiest days of the year. those kinds of impositions often stem from a lack of education, which is disturbing in a world where religion is not valued as much anymore in many of these households beyond an 8 day holiday and a song by adam sandler.
as much as i try to say this is who i am and this is how i behave, i always am faced with individuals who try to change me to a more "secular" world, because observances that i keep are too old, too traditional, or not appropriate for a more modern world (if you want some reading material, look up the 39 melachot -- or you might spell it melahot -- and find out why computers aren't allowed on the sabbath).
motionman: your background may be the same as mine. it may be different than mine. however, go to a regular hallmark store and look for "hanukkah" cards. then go to religious judaica gift shop and look for "hanukkah" cards. count the number of cards in both stores and compare.
maybe what i say is crazy, but i'm not sure it's very off from the truth.
I always found it hypocritical for a religious Jew to live in the United States, even if it is New York. Just by living in the US, they are making choices as to the type of life they plan to live. By living in the US, they live in, at best, a secular country, or, at worst, a Christian-based country. If they REALLY wanted to be an observant Jew, they would move to Israel in live in certain neighborhoods There. No matter what excuses they make, they are making a choice to live here and not There.
BTW, I have a great deal of Jewish education, learned Hebrew (most of which I have forgotten
), was Bar Mitvahed, Confirmed and visited Israel (and am going back next year with my family). My brother made Aliyah (but has since returned), but that was never going to be the life for me. My children go to Jewish Day School and I am active in my Temple, as is my wife. People who know me know that I am Jewish because I never hide it and it is a part of my life, even if just in a cultural way sometimes. I made choices as to the type of life I wanted to lead, and I did it from a point of knowledge, not ignorance.I am sure that "observant" Jews have "decided" what the "correct" way to spell Ch/H-a-n/nn-u-k/kk-a/ah is, but who are they to tell the rest of the Jews that the way they want to spell it is wrong? Do they really think that less-observant Jews not know how to read Hebrew or transliterate it into English (like, for example, a Conservative or Reformed Rabbi)? I think that observant Judaism needs to get off its collective high horse. They are not the end-all, be-all of Judaism. They can decide what they like for themselves, but should not expect all of Judaism to follow. (BTW, my grandfather pronounced all the Hebrew "t" sounds as "s" sounds - was he "wrong" or just old-school eastern-european?)
Interestingly, you said yourself that there are "normal 'observances' that [you] keep". Are there "observances" that you choose not to keep? I think the answer must be "Yes". If so, do you think that the choices you have made are any better (or worse) than the choices your Jewish co-workers have made? Did you make a value choice as to what "observances" deserve to be followed by you? Don't you think that your Jewish co-workers have, at least to some extent, done the same?
Do not get me wrong. I do not mean to come across as an "Observant Jew Basher". I have relatives and good friends who are observant. My youth group was affiliated with an Orthodox Temple in San Francisco and I made some very good friends (and great enemies
) in the Orthodox community there. On the other hand, I have seen how an Orthodox community works first hand, which may be why I have such strong feelings about them.Boy, talk about a rambling mess. See what you can do with it.
MotionMan
fair enough. you are right. i realized that while it actually does offend me to spell it 'hanukkah,' i probably shouldn't emphasize any 'correct" way because it is hypocritical in light of my gripes... and yes, they don't stem from here (obviously). i was frustrated enough that AT, as usual, was a good outlet for this kind of thing - and therefore i expressed it knowing that i would approach someone who set me straight. for that, motionman, i thank you
while i understand your own frustrations with the "high horse," i'd hardly say it's collective. i've purposely distanced myself from those individuals who i felt were pressuring me that way. i still feel the pressure on both sides all the time, even within my own family, and such is life. don't get the impression simply from a standpoint of spelling that it's a collective, but i'm sure you understand that there is a mentality regardless - and i think it goes both ways (from what you and i have expressed thus far). while unfortunate, it's not like we're the only ones with these issues
while i understand your own frustrations with the "high horse," i'd hardly say it's collective. i've purposely distanced myself from those individuals who i felt were pressuring me that way. i still feel the pressure on both sides all the time, even within my own family, and such is life. don't get the impression simply from a standpoint of spelling that it's a collective, but i'm sure you understand that there is a mentality regardless - and i think it goes both ways (from what you and i have expressed thus far). while unfortunate, it's not like we're the only ones with these issues
Mazel tov, motionman! Well said.
BTW, those neighboorhoods in some parts of Israel are pretty scary. The kids are never allowed out and they are all around fairly nuts.
BTW, those neighboorhoods in some parts of Israel are pretty scary. The kids are never allowed out and they are all around fairly nuts.
MotionMan
Lifer
- Jan 11, 2006
- 17,124
- 12
- 81
Originally posted by: tami
fair enough. you are right. i realized that while it actually does offend me to spell it 'hanukkah,' i probably shouldn't emphasize any 'correct" way because it is hypocritical in light of my gripes... and yes, they don't stem from here (obviously). i was frustrated enough that AT, as usual, was a good outlet for this kind of thing - and therefore i expressed it knowing that i would approach someone who set me straight. for that, motionman, i thank you
while i understand your own frustrations with the "high horse," i'd hardly say it's collective. i've purposely distanced myself from those individuals who i felt were pressuring me that way. i still feel the pressure on both sides all the time, even within my own family, and such is life. don't get the impression simply from a standpoint of spelling that it's a collective, but i'm sure you understand that there is a mentality regardless - and i think it goes both ways (from what you and i have expressed thus far). while unfortunate, it's not like we're the only ones with these issues
I think we have reached a common ground then.
Have nice day off. I get TWO days off (and Tuesday is birthday, too!).
MotionMan
lucky... happy birthday!
i am going to england on thursday
have fun. i think it's bedtime for me.
i am going to england on thursday
have fun. i think it's bedtime for me.
That never happened to us. The first time I was there I was with a fairly religious group though. I have heard stories similar to yours though.
I just went to a Jew party..it seems every major city decides that tonight is the night for singles to meet..put us all together in a room, and maybe we will breed??
not an AEPi/AEPhi Exchange, although I've been to a few of those. I hang out with some of the AEPis at grad school, but I was a Sammy undergrad =)
the Jewish singles groups in a lot of cities get together and co-sponsor a party..I went to the one in Dallas, but I know of ones going on tonight in cities from San Diego, Houston, Atlanta, NYC, etc
the weird thing is, its 21+, most are 25-35, but there are some OLD people there (old enough to be my mother, and one guy old enough to be my grandfather!)..kinda creepy to see them hitting on the younger girls
this is a song, that uh, theres alot of xmas songs out there, but not
Too many about hanukkah, so I wrote a song for all those nice little jewish
Kids who dont get to hear any hanukkah songs--here we go...
Put on your yalmulka, here comes hanukkah
Its so much fun-akkah to celebrate hanukkah,
Hanukkah is the festival of lights,
Instead of one day of presents, we have eight crazy nights.
When you feel like the only kid in town without a x-mas tree, heres a list of
People who are jewish, just like you and me:
David lee roth lights the menorrah,
So do james caan, kirk douglas, and the late dinah shore-ah
Guess who eats together at the karnickey deli,
Bowzer from sha-na-na, and arthur fonzerrelli.
Paul newmans half jewish; goldie hawns half too,
Put them together--what a fine lookin jew!
You dont need deck the halls or jingle bell rock
Cause you can spin the dreidl with captain kirk and mr. spock--both jewish!
Put on your yalmulka, its time for hanukkah,
The owner of the seattle super sonic-ahs celebrates hanukkah.
O.j. simpson-- not a jew!
But guess who is...hall of famerrod carew--(he converted!)
We got ann landers and her sister dear abby,
Harrison fords a quarter jewish--not too shabby!
Some people think that ebeneezer scrooge is,
Well, hes not, but guess who is:all three stooges.
So many jews are in show biz--
Tom cruise isnt, but I heard his agent is.
Tell your friend veronica, its time you celebrate hanukkah
I hope I get a harmonica, on this lovely, lovely hanukkah.
So drink your gin-and-tonic-ah, and smoke your mara-juanic-ah,
If you really, really wanna-kah, have a happy, happy, happy, happy
Hanukkah. happy hanukka!
Too many about hanukkah, so I wrote a song for all those nice little jewish
Kids who dont get to hear any hanukkah songs--here we go...
Put on your yalmulka, here comes hanukkah
Its so much fun-akkah to celebrate hanukkah,
Hanukkah is the festival of lights,
Instead of one day of presents, we have eight crazy nights.
When you feel like the only kid in town without a x-mas tree, heres a list of
People who are jewish, just like you and me:
David lee roth lights the menorrah,
So do james caan, kirk douglas, and the late dinah shore-ah
Guess who eats together at the karnickey deli,
Bowzer from sha-na-na, and arthur fonzerrelli.
Paul newmans half jewish; goldie hawns half too,
Put them together--what a fine lookin jew!
You dont need deck the halls or jingle bell rock
Cause you can spin the dreidl with captain kirk and mr. spock--both jewish!
Put on your yalmulka, its time for hanukkah,
The owner of the seattle super sonic-ahs celebrates hanukkah.
O.j. simpson-- not a jew!
But guess who is...hall of famerrod carew--(he converted!)
We got ann landers and her sister dear abby,
Harrison fords a quarter jewish--not too shabby!
Some people think that ebeneezer scrooge is,
Well, hes not, but guess who is:all three stooges.
So many jews are in show biz--
Tom cruise isnt, but I heard his agent is.
Tell your friend veronica, its time you celebrate hanukkah
I hope I get a harmonica, on this lovely, lovely hanukkah.
So drink your gin-and-tonic-ah, and smoke your mara-juanic-ah,
If you really, really wanna-kah, have a happy, happy, happy, happy
Hanukkah. happy hanukka!
ThePresence
Elite Member
- Nov 19, 2001
- 27,727
- 16
- 81
I lived for a while in those neighborhoods in Jerusalem.
The people who throw rocks are unruly kids, it's not like there's a religious reason to do it.
I'm Orthodox, and those kids reflect badly on all of us.
They are a disgrace.
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