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Hangouts and its semi-stealth SMS integration

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Red Storm said:
And most importantly, it goes through your data and not your carrier's SMS plan.
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While I think GVoice behaves like SMS for the most part, I think there's some limitations. You know those apps that request to text your # for a confirmation code? Those never work with a GVoice number. Or rarely at least.
 
DLeRium said:
While I think GVoice behaves like SMS for the most part, I think there's some limitations. You know those apps that request to text your # for a confirmation code? Those never work with a GVoice number. Or rarely at least.
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I got it to work with What's App, which first tried to use my carrier appointed number but after a simple edit took my GV number and verified.
 
Red Storm said:
And most importantly, it goes through your data and not your carrier's SMS plan.
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How does that get to a dumb phone though?

At some point the data has to be converted to a carrier supported SMS. At this point theres a carrier charge, which is ludicrously high compared to data.
 
WelshBloke said:
How does that get to a dumb phone though?

At some point the data has to be converted to a carrier supported SMS. At this point theres a carrier charge, which is ludicrously high compared to data.
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Read what I wrote:

It is an SMS. I think he's mistaken. The SMS sent through Google Voice is a standard SMS. YOU use data to log in and to send it because its a web/data-based interface. It takes your text, converts it to an SMS, and so the recipient sees it as a SMS. They never know its a GV SMS.
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Google converts what you enter into the app into an SMS when you're sending it. You never see it as an SMS. Another way to think of it is the Gchat to text feature. Or if you want to go back 10 years, AIM to text. You can type in a phone number in your IM app and AOL or Google or whoever used to offer this would convert your data based message into an SMS. Essentially, Google eats the SMS costs for you.
 
DLeRium said:
Google converts what you enter into the app into an SMS when you're sending it. You never see it as an SMS. Another way to think of it is the Gchat to text feature. Or if you want to go back 10 years, AIM to text. You can type in a phone number in your IM app and AOL or Google or whoever used to offer this would convert your data based message into an SMS. Essentially, Google eats the SMS costs for you.
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SMS costs are pretty high though, even when bought in bulk. Thats a significant cost for Google to eat.
 
DLeRium said:
Maybe that's ok for receiving pictures, but a lot of people use Group MMS for group chats. Like today I'm hanging out with a group of 4 to watch the Warriors. Luckily we all have Whatsapp, but a previous group for previous series did not all have the same platform, so we created a group mms for coordination. That's not going to work with GV.
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To get this back on topic, though, it *does* work with Hangouts. I think -- it certainly *looks* like group chat hangouts now are enabled.

Yep: there's a "New group hangout" option on the menu.
 
s44 said:
To get this back on topic, though, it *does* work with Hangouts. I think -- it certainly *looks* like group chat hangouts now are enabled.

Yep: there's a "New group hangout" option on the menu.
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Correct. I expect hangouts to behave like any other messenger like Whatsapp or Kik. Picture messaging should be standard. But on top of that I found Whatsapp's ability to send video, sounds, and location to be highly important. I'd hope Google can do that. They can integrate the check in feature so you can let your buddies know you're at XYZ restaurant through a group chat. Apple's iMessage was a disappointment in not having these features, but maybe we can expect this change for the next round

WelshBloke said:
SMS costs are pretty high though, even when bought in bulk. Thats a significant cost for Google to eat.
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That's because carriers rip you off for SMS. I'm sure Google gets a much better deal. I know plenty of people who used to use Facebook via text and all those stupid alerts come in through text. I still see tons of my friends on AIM who list as "mobile." What that means is any message gets forwarded to text. Stupid. But I'm sure these companies get a great discount, and I don't think it actually costs much for a mobile carrier to send SMS. It's just the cost they want to pass down to us consumers.
 
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i psoted this in the i/o thread before i saw this topic, but:

on my browser gmail, in the sent mail page its completely clogged up with chat logs. its so hard to differentiate between what i sent as convo to friends and what i emailed for legitimate purposes. not to mention the "sent mail" chat logs are segmented and just convos with 3 ppl can take up an entire page in the sent mail section. very annoying and no way to change it back.

i hate having these updates shoved down my throat. google is beginning to feel more like microsoft.
 
You can already do video chats with the Google Plus app using Plus Messenger?

They just catch on when the Hangouts app was announced?
 
DLeRium said:
Interesting how Apple was able ram iMessage down the carriers' throats. If anything that's a bigger threat in the sense it's a clear integration of SMS and chat... something we're still waiting for in Hangout.
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Not sure why the carriers would see that as a threat. Okay, US carriers probably see *everything* that doesn't give them "full control" as a threat, but such an assumption doesn't make any practical sense IMO.

The carriers have left the SMS boat a while back and are on the Data cash cow now.
-AT&T only offers $20 for unlimited SMS now...No more lower tiers for SMS. It's either unlimited SMS or nothing.
-Verizon only offers shared data now...SMS is free on their shared data plans right?
-TMobile: SMS is free standard on all their UNcarrier and (prepaid???) plans.
-Sprint: SMS is free standard on all their plans.
-I've also been using Google Voice for years which bypasses any carrier's stupid threat to charge me for it.

The only people that the carriers would see integration of SMS and chat as a threat for are people on old grandfathered plans at this point since those people can just call to cancel paying $5-10/month extra to the carriers.
 
lothar said:
Not sure why the carriers would see that as a threat. Okay, US carriers probably see *everything* that doesn't give them "full control" as a threat, but such an assumption doesn't make any practical sense IMO.

The carriers have left the SMS boat a while back and are on the Data cash cow now.
-AT&T only offers $20 for unlimited SMS now...No more lower tiers for SMS. It's either unlimited SMS or nothing.
-Verizon only offers shared data now...SMS is free on their shared data plans right?
-TMobile: SMS is free standard on all their UNcarrier and (prepaid???) plans.
-Sprint: SMS is free standard on all their plans.
-I've also been using Google Voice for years which bypasses any carrier's stupid threat to charge me for it.

The only people that the carriers would see integration of SMS and chat as a threat for are people on old grandfathered plans at this point since those people can just call to cancel paying $5-10/month extra to the carriers.
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What I'm saying is that iMessage is a proactive way of going after SMS. It basically relies on data messages when possible and falling back to SMS only when needed. If you figure most of your friends are iPhone users, then you can cancel SMS.

I'd say having SMS integration is a bigger threat to SMS than having a chat app. Because with a chat app you need to convince your friends to get on that platform. Chat is fragmented as it is, especially in the US where there's no clear cut leader. Carriers can't really justify blocking chat apps.... at least not without creating a big uproar.

Essentially pre iMessage, all of your messages would be routed through SMS/MMS. Now post-iMessage, a bunch of messages that could've previously been forced through SMS/MMS are now data messages. Through integration, it's an immediate drop in the counts of SMS/MMS. I understand your point that there are only unlimited plans, but part of this was due to the huge popularity of SMS/MMS. If the popularity is declining, carriers can't justify unlimited plans. People aren't sending 3000 texts a day now. It's 3000 whatsapp messages instead. There's plenty of people grandfathered, and certainly some who are on pay per use. I'm also certain there could be some people potentially wanting to cancel SMS plans altogether. As SMS starts dropping in popularity, you can bet carriers will have to look for a new method of revenue.
 
I want to message any of my contacts from any device in a single app. This is the holy grail for me.

I'm worried if they include SMS in Hangouts it will require Voice single number which isn't available in the UK. I seriously doubt if I'm on my tablet the SMS will be routed out via my phone (like DeskSMS)
 
DLeRium said:
I'd say having SMS integration is a bigger threat to SMS than having a chat app.
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Did you read the article? AT&T isn't blocking Hangouts whole hog: just video chat over cell, like they did to Facetime.

I believe they were forced to stop that by the threat of lawsuits -- because this kind of anti-competitive blocking is quite likely illegal. I guess we have to wait for people to sue the Death Star again. But meanwhile Hangouts actually has *less* functionality for many than G+ Hangouts or Talk.
 
Yeah Hangouts needs some improvements. I'd prefer a better form of online/offline notifications. Is there any? Someone said it was based on the way the contact images look? That is if your contacts have images. I am actually split if I like seeing my contacts online or using it like an SMS way....

Can't wait for G-Voice and SMS integration.

I can see people who didn't want to use Google+ being a bit miffed that they will have to use it for chatting but really G+ is just getting better and better.

WTG Google. However currently Hangouts is a step in right direction yet feels two steps back from it.

Hope they listen to the feedback.
 
You didn't need a Plus profile for Talk and the same goes for Hangouts.

I personally like the lack of online status, I don't think the concept of 'online' makes much sense in this instance.
 
Could it be... what we've all wanted?
Nikhyl Singhal said:
Thanks for all of your feedback on last week's Hangouts launch. I wanted to quickly talk about 1) making/receiving phone calls in Gmail, and 2) Google Voice support more generally.

1) Today's version of Hangouts doesn't yet support outbound calls on the web and in the Chrome extension, but we do support inbound calls to your Google Voice number. We're working hard on supporting both, and outbound/inbound calls will soon be available. In the meantime, you can continue using Google Talk in Gmail.

2) Hangouts is designed to be the future of Google Voice, and making/receiving phone calls is just the beginning. Future versions of Hangouts will integrate Google Voice more seamlessly.
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Maybe some day.
 
It's pretty much a mess of an unfinished beta-version right now (as it always has been with Google) but I think Hangouts will eventually be absolutely awesome. I was feeling this even before I read that article above that they're potentially rolling Google Voice into Hangouts.

I very rarely used GTalk (even less, SMS) and almost exclusively chat through Whatsapp for the past year, but already I'm feeling that to communicate with some select people on my contacts list that using Hangouts with them is better.
 
thecapsaicinkid said:
You didn't need a Plus profile for Talk and the same goes for Hangouts.

I personally like the lack of online status, I don't think the concept of 'online' makes much sense in this instance.
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It makes perfect sense, and even What's App shows you when people are online. Knowing that little bit of info is the often the main difference between me calling (they aren't online) or messaging (they are online) someone.
 
Red Storm said:
It makes perfect sense, and even What's App shows you when people are online. Knowing that little bit of info is the often the main difference between me calling (they aren't online) or messaging (they are online) someone.
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Whatsapp doesn't show online or offline status. It shows when you last accessed the app. That's equivalent to the watermarking that Hangouts has.

Online and offline statuses are battery draining. Google Talk is moving away from being an IM app.

Plus, Online and offline statuses don't work well for phones. Someone who's idle on Gtalk right now could potentially wake up as a result of your message. Not everyone has their phone actively in use. It makes sense for desktop chat though where inactive means you're likely not at your desk, unless you like using your desk without using your computer a lot?
 
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DLeRium said:
Whatsapp doesn't show online or offline status. It shows when you last accessed the app. That's equivalent to the watermarking that Hangouts has.

Online and offline statuses are battery draining. Google Talk is moving away from being an IM app.

Plus. Online and offline statuses don't work well for phones. Someone who's idle on Gtalk right now could potentially wake up as a result of your message. Not everyone has their phone actively in use.
Click to expand...

Whatsapp does show when someone is online, it literally says "Online" under their name. When you see that you know that person is on their phone using Whatsapp, and you can expect a very quick reply if you send a message. That little bit of info is very nice to have.
 
Red Storm said:
Whatsapp does show when someone is online, it literally says "Online" under their name. When you see that you know that person is on their phone using Whatsapp, and you can expect a very quick reply if you send a message. That little bit of info is very nice to have.
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It says "Online" in the status under their name when they are actively in the app. It's not an indication of that they're on their phone or not. I've been actively using my iPhone all day today and when I pull up my convo between my two phones it says my iPhone was last on 5/18/2013. It's not the same kind of online/offline the Gtalk status used to have. Whatsapp isn't a traditional desktop IM app.

Unless your friends are sending 5000 Whatsapp messages back and forth, they're not going to be online all the time. In fact most apps don't show this (Kakao, Kik). So unless your friends are IN Whatsapp at that very moment, when you decide to message them, you're still hoping they unlock their phone and read the message. You get that with Google Hangouts. Essentially it's where we were with G+ Messenger.

I understand that Hangouts is a step back when compared to Gtalk or Whatsapp in terms of showing friends status, but is it a huge issue? I don't think so.
 
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