Hand sanitizer vs anti-bacterial soap

[torpid]

Everyone hears on almost a daily basis that using anti-bacterial soap and over-prescribing antibiotics are causing resistent germs to be naturally selected. Let's assume this is true to one degree or another, regardless of whether it might ultimately lead to the demise of the human race or if it's just a minor novelty of discovery.

The question I am pondering now is, what about hand-sanitizers? My bottle of purell claims to kill 99.99% of germs. Does that mean that the remaining 0.01% will eventually replicate and result in a world full of purell-resistant germs? Or is purell more like bleach or some other heavy-duty germ killer, in that germs will likely never be resistent due to the potency?

I would like to think that washing with regular soap and then sanitizing before eating or rubbing eyes is a foolproof way to avoid germs without eventually leading to the destruction of the human race by a supergerm, but I'm not entirely sure it's true.

Thoughts?

 

[SP33Demon]

I used to get sick once a year. Ever since using hand sanitizer, I haven't been sick in two years. Can't argue with the stats.

PS: in answer to your question, .01% of germs won't replicate, rofl.

 

[Heisenberg]

Those hand-sanitizers are basically alcohol IIRC. I don't think bacteria can become resistant to alcohol, but I'm not a biologist.

 

[miri]

Those hand sanitizers do nothing against viruses. The best thing to do is to wash your hands thoroughly, most people like my wife, just wash their hands for like 2 seconds. you need to lather with soap and then make sure the water rinses well.

 

[GasX]

You are operating under the fallacious assumption that germs are bad. If you lived in a sterile environment, the slightest bit of dirt could kill you.

 

[Syringer]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I used to get sick once a year. Ever since using hand sanitizer, I haven't been sick in two years. Can't argue with the stats.

PS: in answer to your question, .01% of germs won't replicate, rofl.

And what stats are those?

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: Heisenberg
Those hand-sanitizers are basically alcohol IIRC. I don't think bacteria can become resistant to alcohol, but I'm not a biologist.

The Irish managed it, why not paramecium?

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: Mwilding
You are operating under the fallacious assumption that germs are bad. If you lived in a sterile environment, the slightest bit of dirt could kill you.

No one lives in a sterile environment, so that is a moot point. The idea is that you do all you can to not get infections. There are ways to kill viruses, and I think alcohol might, based on recommendations from the campus clinic. It's pretty easy to break down their protein coat.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: Mwilding
You are operating under the fallacious assumption that germs are bad. If you lived in a sterile environment, the slightest bit of dirt could kill you.

No one lives in a sterile environment, so that is a moot point. The idea is that you do all you can to not get infections. There are ways to kill viruses, and I think alcohol might, based on recommendations from the campus clinic. It's pretty easy to break down their protein coat.

Proper hand washing technique is 100 times more effective than use of a particular sopa or sanitizer. You don't have to kill the germs so much as get them off your hands. Germs on your hands don't make you sick per se, but it is the germs on your hands that through direct contact move to your eyes, nose or mouth.

Wash your hands with a mild moisturizing soap and wash the countertops with harsh cleaners and sanitizers.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: Mwilding
You are operating under the fallacious assumption that germs are bad. If you lived in a sterile environment, the slightest bit of dirt could kill you.

No, I'm operating under the assumption that SOME germs are bad and that people are unsanitary slobs at work occasionally. It's not like I sit in a bath of purell all day at work and require people to take a detoxification shower before breathing the air within 200 yards. I'm talking about just keeping clean after going to the restroom or before eating after typing away on an unclean keyboard for hours.

 

[Heisenberg]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: Heisenberg
Those hand-sanitizers are basically alcohol IIRC. I don't think bacteria can become resistant to alcohol, but I'm not a biologist.

The Irish managed it, why not paramecium?

Touché.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: Mwilding
You are operating under the fallacious assumption that germs are bad. If you lived in a sterile environment, the slightest bit of dirt could kill you.

No one lives in a sterile environment, so that is a moot point. The idea is that you do all you can to not get infections. There are ways to kill viruses, and I think alcohol might, based on recommendations from the campus clinic. It's pretty easy to break down their protein coat.

Proper hand washing technique is 100 times more effective than use of a particular sopa or sanitizer. You don't have to kill the germs so much as get them off your hands. Germs on your hands don't make you sick per se, but it is the germs on your hands that through direct contact move to your eyes, nose or mouth.

Wash your hands with a mild moisturizing soap and wash the countertops with harsh cleaners and sanitizers.

By proper hand washing do you mean the 5 minute scrub with deep-cleansing brushes that surgeons use, or just the casual 15 second slop and lather that normal humans do? If you mean the latter, I am fairly certain sanitizers are better.

 

[markgm]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I used to get sick once a year. Ever since using hand sanitizer, I haven't been sick in two years. Can't argue with the stats.

PS: in answer to your question, .01% of germs won't replicate, rofl.

I rarely wash my hands, consantly rub my eyes and bite my nails, and yet I haven't been sick in over 2 years. I hate the smell of hand sanitizer so I won't use it. Can't argue with stats!

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: torpid
Everyone hears on almost a daily basis that using anti-bacterial soap and over-prescribing antibiotics are causing resistent germs to be naturally selected. Let's assume this is true to one degree or another, regardless of whether it might ultimately lead to the demise of the human race or if it's just a minor novelty of discovery.

The question I am pondering now is, what about hand-sanitizers? My bottle of purell claims to kill 99.99% of germs. Does that mean that the remaining 0.01% will eventually replicate and result in a world full of purell-resistant germs? Or is purell more like bleach or some other heavy-duty germ killer, in that germs will likely never be resistent due to the potency?

I would like to think that washing with regular soap and then sanitizing before eating or rubbing eyes is a foolproof way to avoid germs without eventually leading to the destruction of the human race by a supergerm, but I'm not entirely sure it's true.

Thoughts?

i am totally with you on this theory. which actually isn't just a theory.

i stay away from anti-bacterial anything. it's not needed unless you are a conducting surgery or something along those lines.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: Mwilding
You are operating under the fallacious assumption that germs are bad. If you lived in a sterile environment, the slightest bit of dirt could kill you.

No one lives in a sterile environment, so that is a moot point. The idea is that you do all you can to not get infections. There are ways to kill viruses, and I think alcohol might, based on recommendations from the campus clinic. It's pretty easy to break down their protein coat.

Proper hand washing technique is 100 times more effective than use of a particular sopa or sanitizer. You don't have to kill the germs so much as get them off your hands. Germs on your hands don't make you sick per se, but it is the germs on your hands that through direct contact move to your eyes, nose or mouth.

Wash your hands with a mild moisturizing soap and wash the countertops with harsh cleaners and sanitizers.

By proper hand washing do you mean the 5 minute scrub with deep-cleansing brushes that surgeons use, or just the casual 15 second slop and lather that normal humans do? If you mean the latter, I am fairly certain sanitizers are better.

15 seconds of lathering and a good rinse with hot water is going to prevent you from getting sick from germs on your hands. That guy, Joe, who comes to work sick who sneezed on the coffee pot before you got your morning fix is not covered by handwashing.

 

[torpid]

I'm not so sure 15 seconds is enough. Do you have any evidence to this or just operating, like many above, under the "works for me so it's true" rule? What little evidence I have suggests that it is not enough. That being the fact that some people don't wash their hands, and after washing mine I must touch the same door handle that they touch. And the fact that many hospitals are now requiring nurses to use hand sanitizer instead of washing their hands for a short time.

 

[FoBoT]

neither of those do crap , you have to leave them on for 20 minutes to kill anything

 

[Otaking]

"Purell-resistent germs." :laugh:
Gotta love it.

 

[miri]

Originally posted by: torpid
I'm not so sure 15 seconds is enough. Do you have any evidence to this or just operating, like many above, under the "works for me so it's true" rule? What little evidence I have suggests that it is not enough. That being the fact that some people don't wash their hands, and after washing mine I must touch the same door handle that they touch. And the fact that many hospitals are now requiring nurses to use hand sanitizer instead of washing their hands for a short time.

When im at home I wash my hands in the bathtub, so I get that high volume and pressure wash from the tub faucet, with the amount of water that comes through that, 15 seconds is probably enough.

 

[miri]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
neither of those do crap , you have to leave them on for 20 minutes to kill anything

Im not a fan of the antibacterial lotions

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Syringer

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I used to get sick once a year. Ever since using hand sanitizer, I haven't been sick in two years. Can't argue with the stats.

PS: in answer to your question, .01% of germs won't replicate, rofl.

And what stats are those?

Personal stats... the only thing I've changed is two things: using hand sanitizer (Germ-X which is 62% Ethyl Alcohol), and after washing my hands I use a towelette to turn the water off and open the door with the towellete as well. So I don't really touch anything in the bathroom directly, a ton of guys touch the dam handle w/out washing.

 

[JACKHAMMER]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

PS: in answer to your question, .01% of germs won't replicate, rofl.

I personally stay away from all the anitbacterial products. because they do select for resistant bacteria. Want proof? Visit a hospital. Anyway, those .01% fo survive and replicate.

 

[mrchan]

I think the rule of thumb for hand washing is 30 seconds, or singing happy birthday twice. Not that most people wash their hands that long....

 

[Phoenix86]

That which does not kill us makes us stronger.

~Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[FirNaTine]

As a health care worker, I have been told alcohol based hand washes are more effective in reducing bacteria on your hands. The second part of this is because of the accessibility and reduced time constraint on using them, compliance is better. And viruses don't respond to antibiotics so they can't become resistant. (Antivirals are another story)