Hamas stealing humanitarian aid?

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I wasn't aware that my position has ever been that Hamas was going to be able to destroy Israel... But that doesn't mean they won't try - even using terrorist tactics...

Your threat meter isn't reacting to Israel's colonization of Palestine, which is Hamas's best recruiting tool. End the ongoing colonization, and of the terrorists some will give up and the rest will die by their own stupid insistence not to.

 

[raildogg]

Israel is creating more hatred and terrorists in the Arab world. America is following the same example as well.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: raildogg
Israel is creating more hatred and terrorists in the Arab world. America is following the same example as well.

How can you create more hatred when the goal is to rid the jews?

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: raildogg
Israel is creating more hatred and terrorists in the Arab world. America is following the same example as well.

Only within the confines of your mind it is. Arab leaders are sitting idly through this. The only thing they hate more than Israel are the Palestinians.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: shrumpage

it stems from the Camp David Accords, when Israel exchanged land for peace:

o'rly worked well. This just shows the limits of the West's and Israels understanding of Islam, and therefore of the Lesser Jihad against Israel, and also suicidal, the mere holding of such negotiations, leading to one more version, of so many treaties, none of which will be honored. No matter how much land they give (hamas and abbas actually admits it) Israel gone is the ultimate goal.

The agreement was between Egypt and Israel - both sides have stuck with it. Both sides are still at peace.

It was worked very well, and the precedent has been set.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Zebo
More BS hard to colonize what was part of the Mandate for Palestine set up for express purpose of establishing the Jewish National Home.

I called you on this lie just the other day, yet you repeat it. Again:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country

Making a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine is not the same thing as a national home for the Jewish people out of Palestine, most obviously considering the latter would severely prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine.

Originally posted by: Zebo
Secondly, "Judea" and "Samaria" were used by the Jews for more than a thousand years before "Jesus" began to use those words, until the Arab Muslims came along in 1948 and began to make everyone forget those terms and call it West Bank calming to be refugees when Jews are the Ultimate refugees.. Then you have whole issue of non-stop attacks coming from those places giving Israel right to them or at the very least should be discouraged from yielding up control of any of the territories they now possess in order to prevent war in the future.

Nonsense, the region had been refereed to as Palestine since the Byzantines gave it that name in 330 AD. But you obviously have no interest in history, truth, or justice wherever it constricts your lust to perpetuate Israel's mad conquest of land along with all the horrors it brings with it. You and your fellow extremists on our side keep up better appearances than those of Hamas, but you are all of the same ilk.

 

[raildogg]

There is a reason for things. We need to understand that most people are followers and don't really question authority. This tends to be true almost everywhere but particularly where education is lacking. America played right into the hands of these people by attacking Saddam while shaking hands with various dictators like Musharaff and the Saudi leaders among others. Killing 600,000 Iraqis did not help either.

The Palestinians are suffereing tremendously and Israel is not helping. You can blame the Palestinian government, or lack thereof, but in the end, they are still suffering. Israel only increases that suffering. The poor kids will probably not have a positive view of Israel and with the way things are looking, the education system there will probably not improve much either. Combine all these factors and you create more terrorists. Lets not compare deaths between the two sides but the numbers are not even close. This is an extremely simple argument but it is ok.

 

[KK]

who cares, they are a worthless country. You know its bad country when their biggest export is suicide bombers.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: raildogg
Israel is creating more hatred and terrorists in the Arab world. America is following the same example as well.

How can you create more hatred when the goal is to rid the jews?

Because getting rid of the Jews is only the goal of a few, most Arabs just want to stop the Jews from colonizing the West Bank, but the longer this conflict goes on the more individuals are driven to ignore the difference between those two goals.

We get the exact shame thing on our side with more and more people calling for the extermination of Arabs. Granted, I can see how this would be hard to understand if you have already joined their ranks.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: shrumpage

it stems from the Camp David Accords, when Israel exchanged land for peace:

o'rly worked well. This just shows the limits of the West's and Israels understanding of Islam, and therefore of the Lesser Jihad against Israel, and also suicidal, the mere holding of such negotiations, leading to one more version, of so many treaties, none of which will be honored. No matter how much land they give (hamas and abbas actually admits it) Israel gone is the ultimate goal.

The agreement was between Egypt and Israel - both sides have stuck with it. Both sides are still at peace.

It was worked very well, and the precedent has been set.

Yeah right. How is it that tons of explosives, missiles, not to mention many guns of every kind, have been smuggled into Gaza from Egypt? The Government there press campaigns that vilify Israel and puts on the state television a Jewish conspiracy series such as those based on the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" - Don't fool yourself - that treaty is so transitory and illusionary will make you a believer about 1 hour after a democratic election in Egypt.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: KK
who cares, they are a worthless country. You know its bad country when their biggest export is suicide bombers.

Sure, but our country probably has killed more people recently than any other country I know of.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Zebo
More BS hard to colonize what was part of the Mandate for Palestine set up for express purpose of establishing the Jewish National Home.

I called you on this lie just the other day, yet you repeat it. Again:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country

Making a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine is not the same thing as a national home for the Jewish people out of Palestine, most obviously considering the latter would severely prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine.

Originally posted by: Zebo
Secondly, "Judea" and "Samaria" were used by the Jews for more than a thousand years before "Jesus" began to use those words, until the Arab Muslims came along in 1948 and began to make everyone forget those terms and call it West Bank calming to be refugees when Jews are the Ultimate refugees.. Then you have whole issue of non-stop attacks coming from those places giving Israel right to them or at the very least should be discouraged from yielding up control of any of the territories they now possess in order to prevent war in the future.

Nonsense, the region had been refereed to as Palestine since the Byzantines gave it that name in 330 AD. But you obviously have no interest in history, truth, or justice wherever it constricts your lust to perpetuate Israel's mad conquest of land along with all the horrors it brings with it. You and your fellow extremists on our side keep up better appearances than those of Hamas, but you are all of the same ilk.

I didn't say anything about calling it Palestine, I said West Bank was the new creation for western consumption. Regardless even pursuing your mime Jewish "Judea" and "Samaria" predate all.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Zebo
More BS hard to colonize what was part of the Mandate for Palestine set up for express purpose of establishing the Jewish National Home.

I called you on this lie just the other day, yet you repeat it. Again:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country

Making a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine is not the same thing as a national home for the Jewish people out of Palestine, most obviously considering the latter would severely prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine.

All that changes when you are attacking Jews non-stop, for so many years, so many wars, and have professed hatred in your religions books you follow to the tee and are unabashed about proclaiming.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Zebo
I didn't say anything about calling it Palestine, I said West Bank was the new creation for western consumption. Regardless even pursuing your mime Jewish "Judea" and "Samaria" predate all.

It is a new creation, because Israel took the land of Palestine around it, leaving the land along the west bank of the Jordan river. Hence the name "West Bank", which is how the area is best refered to if you want people to understand what you are talking about.

Anyway, "Canaan" predates the names you mention, but the world has come a long way since then, or at least most of us have. Why do you insist on clinging to ancient history so feverishly?

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Zebo
More BS hard to colonize what was part of the Mandate for Palestine set up for express purpose of establishing the Jewish National Home.

I called you on this lie just the other day, yet you repeat it. Again:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country

Making a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine is not the same thing as a national home for the Jewish people out of Palestine, most obviously considering the latter would severely prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine.

All that changes when you are attacking Jews non-stop, for so many years, so many wars, and have professed hatred in your religions books you follow to the tee and are unabashed about proclaiming.

Well at least you gave up on your previous absurd argument. But now you've got yet another one.

The majority of Palestinian haven't ever attacked Israel, and the Arab armies didn't attack Israel until after Israeli troops had already displaced hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. Yet you just go on pointing to those effects to justify displacing yet more Palestinians, even though that is what started this madness in the first place.

And what is this "you" and "your" nonsense? The only connection I have to this conflict is my tax dollars going to fund Israel's ongoing conquest of Palestinian land.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Hamas would never do such a thing. They are a peaceful organization that is part of a peaceful religion.

Exactly, this media must be slanted, Hamas would never do anything to hurt its civilians since it is a organization that is motivated by peaceful urges to develop its land.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Regardless, if only Israel hadn't kept expanding their colonization of the rest of Palestine while pulling out of Gaza to leave it in chaos, Hamas wouldn't have this opportunity to engage in such banditry.

And if Tim Mcveigh's parents never had sex, the OKC bombing would have never happened.


Wait...

If his grandparents never had sex, his parents would not have been born, and therefor couldnt make Tim.

You missed the part where they are all still having sex and turning out more bombers, while we buy them Viagra.

Or did you not realize that Israel conentues to expand their colonization of the rest of Palestine as we keep right on backing them?

So because Israel continues to expand it justifies every action Hamas does.

As I said, you are just as bad as the Jews you hate, you want land for the Palestinians for blood, the exact thing you hate Israel for. "Israel kills for Land" "The actions of Hamas are ok since they are for land for a country". You are the same person as the people you hate, just on the other side of the fence.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: raildogg
Israel is creating more hatred and terrorists in the Arab world. America is following the same example as well.

How can you create more hatred when the goal is to rid the jews?

Because getting rid of the Jews is only the goal of a few, most Arabs just want to stop the Jews from colonizing the West Bank, but the longer this conflict goes on the more individuals are driven to ignore the difference between those two goals.

We get the exact shame thing on our side with more and more people calling for the extermination of Arabs. Granted, I can see how this would be hard to understand if you have already joined their ranks.

The goal of the few who also happen to be the leaders and by their actions provide Israel's justification for maintain control of the West Bank.

They see what has happened in Gaza - the West Bank could end up being the same if the militants had there way. And we have seen that Hamas encourages the militants.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: RichardE
So because Israel continues to expand it justifies every action Hamas does.

Nothing can justify to me much of what Hamas does, but I do my best to keep a level head about things, while I see many others on both sides have trouble doing the same.

Originally posted by: RichardE
As I said, you are just as bad as the Jews you hate, you want land for the Palestinians for blood, the exact thing you hate Israel for. "Israel kills for Land" "The actions of Hamas are ok since they are for land for a country". You are the same person as the people you hate, just on the other side of the fence.

I don't hate anyone, and I want to help bring this conflict to an end to avoid all the bloodshed on both sides which is otherwise bound to contenue. Doing so requires two states as long as Israel insists on maintaining it's ethnic nationalist nature, hence that requires the Palestinians have enough land to establish a state of their own. That requires wiithdrawing Israeli settlers from the West Bank, which is Palestinian territory they have never ceded their right to yet Israel contenues coloizing it anyway.

Do you hate Arabs too much to understand this?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: RichardE
So because Israel continues to expand it justifies every action Hamas does.

Nothing can justify to me much of what Hamas does, but I do my best to keep a level head about things, while I see many others on both sides have trouble doing the same.

Originally posted by: RichardE
As I said, you are just as bad as the Jews you hate, you want land for the Palestinians for blood, the exact thing you hate Israel for. "Israel kills for Land" "The actions of Hamas are ok since they are for land for a country". You are the same person as the people you hate, just on the other side of the fence.

I don't hate anyone, and I want to help bring this conflict to an end to avoid all the bloodshed on both sides which is otherwise bound to contenue. Doing so requires two states as long as Israel insists on maintaining it's ethnic nationalist nature, hence that requires the Palestinians have enough land to establish a state of their own, and that requires wiredrawing Israeli settlers from the West Bank which is Palestinian territory which they have never ceded their right to.

Do you hate Arabs too much to understand this?

Arabs as a people are just as normal and productive to society as blacks, Asians, Whites ect. The people in palestine who believe in the destruction of Israel are not worth as much as the people looking for peace. Israel has offered to give back all land if peace was achived, so it comes back to the Palestinian people. You might not like the fact that they will have to act like servants to a point doing what actions are needed to please Israel and assure her that she is safe, but that is the price to pay for the actions they have taken over the years.

I make the accusations against you though due to the fact in every thread about Hamas atrocities you never actually condone them, yet use the actions of Israel as a excuse almost. You might as well have posted "Its ok that Hamas took aid from civilians because Israel took land." The problem with this outlook is its the prevalent outlook among Arabs, and an outlook that Israel will not work with at all. The reason is that Hamas and the Arabs will never have the "power" to overtake Israel, even if every country obtained Nuclear Weapons it would be nothing more than a US/Soviet Union issue in the ME with everyone assured of death if anyone gets trigger happy. So the movement of ignoring any atrocities against Israel due to an idea that they are justified will not work because Israel has the power. You might not like that, but its reality. The leaders of the PLA recognize this, they condone Hamas and Israel begins make concessions to them, Egypt condones Hamas and Israel makes more concessions to them, Hezbollah says they will not help Hamas and Israel/Hezbollah relations though not perfect by a far stretch are at a point where Israel isn't actively assassination Hezbollah leaders anymore.

Even Syria is starting to come around and denounce Hamas due to knowing how the game is now being played. Ignoring the atrocities committed against Israel does nothing but strengthen the will of Israel to finish them, which is why the public of Israel supports this action. Maybe it is time you started to realize that there are two sides to this war and as you say Israel using the rockets is not a valid excuse to kill Hamas, Hamas using the land is not a valid excuse to kill Israel civilians.

You cannot use the actions of Israel as a justification of Hamas actions or you are as I said the same person as I am, just a different side.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: RichardE
The people in palestine who believe in the destruction of Israel are not worth as much as the people looking for peace.

Yet the people in Palestine who support the destruction of Israel are a minority, and still you judge them all for it.

Furthermore, those people who do, do so because they judge Israel on the actions of it's minority which is actively engaging in the ongoing destruction of Palestine, as it has been since it's inception as a Jewish colonialist project.

Granted, that much of that is history at this point, and the Palestinians ceded their claim to the territory Israel took in 1948. So, now we have an opportunity for two states to exist. However, Israel holds the power in this conflict, as you previously suggested I should understand, and I assure you I most certainly do. That is why my focus is on Israel, as the Palestinians can't end it as long as Israel is insistent in expanding their borders into Palestinian territory.

Originally posted by: RichardE
Israel has offered to give back all land if peace was achived...

No it hasn't, ever.

And this is why I don't bother to state my condemnations of Hamas, there is already plenty of people doing that, and spreading misinformation to defend Israel's every action. I'm doing my best to bring balance to peoples understanding of this conflict, and that requires me spending most of my time disputing false information like the claim you just made.

Go look for yourself for this mythic "all the land back" offer you use to vilify Palestinians with for the actions of their few. You won't find anything of the sort, but will you then step away the extremists on our side of this conflict, or will you scramble for yet another argument to demonize Palestinians while praising your golden calf?

By the way, you keep using "condone" when I'm certain you mean "condemn". The two are antonyms, with the former meaning 'aprove' and the latter meaning " denounce". I noticed this the other day, but wasn't sure at that point if I just wasn't following what you were trying to say.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: RichardE
The people in palestine who believe in the destruction of Israel are not worth as much as the people looking for peace.

Yet the people in Palestine who support the destruction of Israel are a minority, and still you judge them all for it.

Furthermore, those people who do, do so because they judge Israel on the actions of it's minority which is actively engaging in the ongoing destruction of Palestine, as it has been since it's inception as a Jewish colonialist project.

Granted, that much of that is history at this point, and the Palestinians ceded their claim to the territory Israel took in 1948. So, now we have an opportunity for two states to exist. However, Israel holds the power in this conflict, as you previously suggested I should understand, and I assure you I most certainly do. That is why my focus is on Israel, as the Palestinians can't end it as long as Israel is insistent in expanding their borders into Palestinian territory.

Originally posted by: RichardE
Israel has offered to give back all land if peace was achived...

No it hasn't, ever.

And this is why I don't bother to state my condemnations of Hamas, there is already plenty of people doing that, and spreading misinformation to defend Israel's every action. I'm doing my best to bring balance to peoples understanding of this conflict, and that requires me spending most of my time disputing false information like the claim you just made.

Go look for yourself for this mythic "all the land back" offer you use to vilify Palestinians with for the actions of their few. You won't find anything of the sort, but will you then step away the extremists on our side of this conflict, or will you scramble for yet another argument to demonize Palestinians while praising your golden calf?

By the way, you keep using "condone" when I'm certain you mean "condemn". The two are antonyms, with the former meaning 'aprove' and the latter meaning " denounce". I noticed this the other day, but wasn't sure at that point if I just wasn't following what you were trying to say.

You really are narrow minded and blinded by only the facts that you wish to see!!

Everytime Israel has given anything back or even made concessions they have been for naught!!

Get over it dude!! Everything is NOT Israel`s fault!!

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
=
Yet the people in Palestine who support the destruction of Israel are a minority, and still you judge them all for it.
y.

link?

Here are two links showing they support rocket attacks, blowing stuff up and kidnapings overwhelmingly.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03...dleeast/19mideast.html

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S...2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
=
Yet the people in Palestine who support the destruction of Israel are a minority, and still you judge them all for it.
y.

link?

Here are two links showing they support rocket attacks, blowing stuff up and kidnapings overwhelmingly.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03...dleeast/19mideast.html

The "rocket attacks, blowing stuff up and kidnappings" are far short of anything capable of destroying Israel. However, even ignoring that huge difference, from your link:

The pollster, Khalil Shikaki, said he was shocked because the survey, taken last week, showed greater support for violence than any other he had conducted over the past 15 years in the Palestinian areas. Never before, he said, had a majority favored an end to negotiations or the shooting of rockets at Israel.

Is that the progess you want this conlifct to contenue bringing us, or are you ready to start helping turn this ship around?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: RichardE
The people in palestine who believe in the destruction of Israel are not worth as much as the people looking for peace.

Yet the people in Palestine who support the destruction of Israel are a minority, and still you judge them all for it.

Furthermore, those people who do, do so because they judge Israel on the actions of it's minority which is actively engaging in the ongoing destruction of Palestine, as it has been since it's inception as a Jewish colonialist project.

Granted, that much of that is history at this point, and the Palestinians ceded their claim to the territory Israel took in 1948. So, now we have an opportunity for two states to exist. However, Israel holds the power in this conflict, as you previously suggested I should understand, and I assure you I most certainly do. That is why my focus is on Israel, as the Palestinians can't end it as long as Israel is insistent in expanding their borders into Palestinian territory.

Originally posted by: RichardE
Israel has offered to give back all land if peace was achived...

No it hasn't, ever.

And this is why I don't bother to state my condemnations of Hamas, there is already plenty of people doing that, and spreading misinformation to defend Israel's every action. I'm doing my best to bring balance to peoples understanding of this conflict, and that requires me spending most of my time disputing false information like the claim you just made.

Go look for yourself for this mythic "all the land back" offer you use to vilify Palestinians with for the actions of their few. You won't find anything of the sort, but will you then step away the extremists on our side of this conflict, or will you scramble for yet another argument to demonize Palestinians while praising your golden calf?

By the way, you keep using "condone" when I'm certain you mean "condemn". The two are antonyms, with the former meaning 'aprove' and the latter meaning " denounce". I noticed this the other day, but wasn't sure at that point if I just wasn't following what you were trying to say.

As I stated you are no better than the bloodthirsty people you defend. Ignore all the wrongs the people you defend too in the name of land you think will somehow bring peace. Oh well, it seems the international community is for the most part staying on the sidelines on this one besides token gesture. So the people who share your opinions of ignoring any wrong done to Israel can sit back and watch where that path gets you, since that is how Hamas tries to get its message across.