Hamas stealing humanitarian aid?

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: RichardE

As I stated you are no better than the bloodthirsty people you defend.

Yet I'm not defending any bloodthirsty people, only the innocents caught on both sides of this madness. I just don't defend those who lust to continue expanding the borders of Israel and don't mind spilling the blood of whoever gets in the way of that either, while you do, with a mad fever and with little regard to all the death and destruction it brings to both sides.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: RichardE

As I stated you are no better than the bloodthirsty people you defend.

Yet I'm not defending any bloodthirsty people, only the innocents caught on both sides of this madness. I just don't defend those who lust to continue expanding the borders of Israel and don't mind spilling the blood of whoever gets in the way of that either, while you do, with a mad fever and with little regard to all the death and destruction it brings to both sides.

You defend the actions of Hamas stating that they are justified as retaliation for your "colonization" of the West Bank.

You demand that Israel return the West Bank BEFORE any concession on the part of the Palestinians.

Israel pulled out of the Gaza settlements unconditionally and what did Hamas do. Continue the shelling of Israel, yet now able to reach deeper.

So why should Israel release the West Bank on promises (real or percieved) that things will be different, that have yet to be kept by the Palestinians

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: RichardE

So because Israel continues to expand it justifies every action Hamas does.

As I said, you are just as bad as the Jews you hate, you want land for the Palestinians for blood, the exact thing you hate Israel for. "Israel kills for Land" "The actions of Hamas are ok since they are for land for a country". You are the same person as the people you hate, just on the other side of the fence.

Are you such a simpleton that you see everyone who doesn't completely agree with Israel in every way as anti-Israel?
It isn't Palestinians shooting hospitals.

 

[StageLeft]

They are a gang.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: RichardE

So because Israel continues to expand it justifies every action Hamas does.

As I said, you are just as bad as the Jews you hate, you want land for the Palestinians for blood, the exact thing you hate Israel for. "Israel kills for Land" "The actions of Hamas are ok since they are for land for a country". You are the same person as the people you hate, just on the other side of the fence.

Are you such a simpleton that you see everyone who doesn't completely agree with Israel in every way as anti-Israel?
It isn't Palestinians shooting hospitals.

No, I see people who have stated they refuse to condone any actions by a group as what I described.

Palestinians shoot hospitals a few of those 10k rockets over the years have hit them, You should try to learn both sides and quit being a simpleton.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: RichardE

As I stated you are no better than the bloodthirsty people you defend.

Yet I'm not defending any bloodthirsty people, only the innocents caught on both sides of this madness. I just don't defend those who lust to continue expanding the borders of Israel and don't mind spilling the blood of whoever gets in the way of that either, while you do, with a mad fever and with little regard to all the death and destruction it brings to both sides.

You do defend the actions of Hamas though who are bloodthirsty people. You justify them in the quest for land the actions they do, so yes, you do defend bloodthirsty people.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: RichardE

As I stated you are no better than the bloodthirsty people you defend.

Yet I'm not defending any bloodthirsty people, only the innocents caught on both sides of this madness. I just don't defend those who lust to continue expanding the borders of Israel and don't mind spilling the blood of whoever gets in the way of that either, while you do, with a mad fever and with little regard to all the death and destruction it brings to both sides.

You defend the actions of Hamas stating that they are justified as retaliation for your "colonization" of the West Bank.

You demand that Israel return the West Bank BEFORE any concession on the part of the Palestinians.

Israel pulled out of the Gaza settlements unconditionally and what did Hamas do. Continue the shelling of Israel, yet now able to reach deeper.

So why should Israel release the West Bank on promises (real or percieved) that things will be different, that have yet to be kept by the Palestinians

A good question, and with what you pointed out concerning Gaza as a precedent, I don't see how anyone can successfully spin this one either.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: RichardE

As I stated you are no better than the bloodthirsty people you defend.

Yet I'm not defending any bloodthirsty people, only the innocents caught on both sides of this madness. I just don't defend those who lust to continue expanding the borders of Israel and don't mind spilling the blood of whoever gets in the way of that either, while you do, with a mad fever and with little regard to all the death and destruction it brings to both sides.

You defend the actions of Hamas stating that they are justified as retaliation for your "colonization" of the West Bank.

You demand that Israel return the West Bank BEFORE any concession on the part of the Palestinians.

Israel pulled out of the Gaza settlements unconditionally and what did Hamas do. Continue the shelling of Israel, yet now able to reach deeper.

So why should Israel release the West Bank on promises (real or percieved) that things will be different, that have yet to be kept by the Palestinians

Why did Israel create settlements in the first place? That's like taking up smoking, so you can pat yourself on the back for quitting...

 

[piasabird]

This is the same kind of journalism we get from Left Wing Newspapaers in the USA.

Just think logically, the Terrorists are going somewhere or hiding or whatever they do when Isreal Bombs them. They have to be hiding somewhere.

It is kind of hard to tell a civilian from a terrorists. They dont always wear a Uniform with
HAMAS written on the front. Duhh!!!!

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
You defend the actions of Hamas stating that they are justified as retaliation for your "colonization" of the West Bank.

I've never said anything of the sort, and have no intent on doing so. Apparently you and RichardE don't have the congestive power to understand that, but it is the truth.

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
You demand that Israel return the West Bank BEFORE any concession on the part of the Palestinians.

I demand Israel remove the Israel civilian settlers from Palestinian land. Israel has no legal right to the colonize that land and hence there is no concession Palestinians should make in return for that.

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Israel pulled out of the Gaza settlements unconditionally and what did Hamas do. Continue the shelling of Israel, yet now able to reach deeper.

Israel pulled their settlers out along with their military to leave Gaza to chaos while contening to expand settlements in the West Bank. There was no attempt at peace in that.

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
So why should Israel release the West Bank on promises (real or percieved) that things will be different, that have yet to be kept by the Palestinians

Again, the settlers need to go, the occupation needs to stay and Gaza must be reoccupied while the reality of the settlers going brings calm to the conflict. That would be Israel actually making an honest attempt at peace, fially acknowledging the Palestians right to sovereignly as Israel has yet to ever do.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
A good question, and with what you pointed out concerning Gaza as a precedent, I don't see how anyone can successfully spin this one either.

It was spun from the start, by Israeli leaders, leaving Gaza to decend into chaos while continuing to expand colonization of the West Bank.

Are you familar with the shell game?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_game

 

[Genx87]

One thing I dont understand. Arent the palastinians pretty well armed as a populace? Guns are pretty easy to get a hold of over there. Why havent the people shot back at them?

One of the more interesting stories you didnt hear about in Iraq were Iraqi's engaging the United States troops. But also fighting AQ. There were quite a few instances of US troops getting into fire fights trying to stop both groups from fighting each other on the streets.

So why havent the palastinians kicked out Hamas?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

It was spun from the start, by Israeli leaders, leaving Gaza to decend into chaos while continuing to expand colonization of the West Bank.

I was going to ask you to elaborate on that point, but I see you replied to CC

Again, the settlers need to go, the occupation needs to stay and Gaza must be reoccupied while the reality of the settlers going brings calm to the conflict.

Do you really think that will calm things down? Because I am very dubious that would be much help long term. Which is what they all need, a long term solution.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Genx87
One thing I dont understand. Arent the palastinians pretty well armed as a populace? Guns are pretty easy to get a hold of over there. Why havent the people shot back at them?

One of the more interesting stories you didnt hear about in Iraq were Iraqi's engaging the United States troops. But also fighting AQ. There were quite a few instances of US troops getting into fire fights trying to stop both groups from fighting each other on the streets.

So why havent the palastinians kicked out Hamas?

You seriously asking this? Don't you understand they have Islamic doctrine and Mo's example behind all their actions? It's the peacemakers that are Kafir subject to death for being unislamic. Spend some time here you'll see what i'm saying: All Muslims talking.
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21
http://www.islamonline.net/ser...%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar

As for those who call for taking up arms to change the current state of the Islamic communities, we have previously said that any means of reform based on violence will not achieve its goals. In addition to this, exercising power requires extensive preparation and planning including a careful study of all existing circumstances before taking such a step, i.e. calling arms. However, this should not be understood as undermining the importance of Jihad in its general sense. Jihad will continue till the end of days in all its forms and through all its means. This is evident from the Hadith narrated by Abu Dawud: ?Jihad will continue from the day I was sent by Allah till the last people of my nation fight against the Antichrist (Dajjal), it will neither be stopped by oppression nor abstention?. This Hadith denotes the continuance of Jihad in all fields including armed Jihad, is an integral element; this fact is evident from referring to fighting against the Antichrist.

Fatwa # 7944 from United Kingdom Date: Wednesday, February 26th 2003
Category

Islamic Politics
Title
If the jihad in Palestine is true Jihad where everyone is supposed to go why is it no one is going to fight...

Question
If the jihad in Palestine is a true jihad where everyone is supposed to go why is it no one is going to fight arnt we all supposed to go and if America attacks iraq no ones going to go to help them either if they don?t even move to help the Palestinians.so arnt we doing sin for not going to jihad.what is wrong with the ummah why arnt they helping.i?ve heard of t.v on the news that most of iraq is shia but I think that?s propaganda because my ustaad and other people told me before that its mostly sunni and they is only a little town of shia?s.could you give me your views

Answer

We do accept that the Jihaad in Palestine is a true Jihaad. However, don?t allow your emotions to overcome your common sense.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Muhammad Kadwa
FATWA DEPT.

http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=b422955e67ae3c8ef8189d1f55a3f799

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
You defend the actions of Hamas stating that they are justified as retaliation for your "colonization" of the West Bank.

I've never said anything of the sort, and have no intent on doing so. Apparently you and RichardE don't have the congestive power to understand that, but it is the truth.

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
You demand that Israel return the West Bank BEFORE any concession on the part of the Palestinians.

I demand Israel remove the Israel civilian settlers from Palestinian land. Israel has no legal right to the colonize that land and hence there is no concession Palestinians should make in return for that.

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Israel pulled out of the Gaza settlements unconditionally and what did Hamas do. Continue the shelling of Israel, yet now able to reach deeper.

Israel pulled their settlers out along with their military to leave Gaza to chaos while contening to expand settlements in the West Bank. There was no attempt at peace in that.

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
So why should Israel release the West Bank on promises (real or percieved) that things will be different, that have yet to be kept by the Palestinians

Again, the settlers need to go, the occupation needs to stay and Gaza must be reoccupied while the reality of the settlers going brings calm to the conflict. That would be Israel actually making an honest attempt at peace, fially acknowledging the Palestians right to sovereignly as Israel has yet to ever do.

You have said you refuse to condone them which is in essence supporting them, followed by your continual use of justifying the actions of Hamas is the same as defending them, so yes you do defend them. Most people here are smart enough to see through pathetic attempts to "spin" your opinion.

There is no precedent on the legality of colonizing land taken in defense of your homeland in a war you did not start. Any land Israel returns is a gesture of goodwill, as seen with Egypt, and using that example we can see the benefits of declaring peace and recognizing Israel will grant you what you want, in this case land. (As was done with Egypt). Due to this, Israel has already set a precedent for returning land in exchange for peace, the palestinians have only set a precedent for backstabbing peace efforts.


Israel pulled out of Gaza as was asked, no one asked Israel to help the Palestinians transition over, on the contrary, when Israel offered to help the arabs rejected the offer, (Probably less diplomatic than I put it as well).

Why should Israel risk the lifes of its military in occupying territory it was told not to occupy at all? You cannot ask for Israel to "occupy Gaza" to bring peace while at the same time calling for a complete withdrawl. The people of palestine cannot have everything they want, especially with the actions they are taking against Israel.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Genx87
One thing I dont understand. Arent the palastinians pretty well armed as a populace? Guns are pretty easy to get a hold of over there. Why havent the people shot back at them?

One of the more interesting stories you didnt hear about in Iraq were Iraqi's engaging the United States troops. But also fighting AQ. There were quite a few instances of US troops getting into fire fights trying to stop both groups from fighting each other on the streets.

So why havent the palastinians kicked out Hamas?

You seriously asking this? Don't you understand they have Islamic doctrine and Mo's example behind all their actions? It's the peacemakers that are Kafir subject to death for being unislamic. Spend some time here you'll see what i'm saying: All Muslims talking.
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21
http://www.islamonline.net/ser...%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar

As for those who call for taking up arms to change the current state of the Islamic communities, we have previously said that any means of reform based on violence will not achieve its goals. In addition to this, exercising power requires extensive preparation and planning including a careful study of all existing circumstances before taking such a step, i.e. calling arms. However, this should not be understood as undermining the importance of Jihad in its general sense. Jihad will continue till the end of days in all its forms and through all its means. This is evident from the Hadith narrated by Abu Dawud: ?Jihad will continue from the day I was sent by Allah till the last people of my nation fight against the Antichrist (Dajjal), it will neither be stopped by oppression nor abstention?. This Hadith denotes the continuance of Jihad in all fields including armed Jihad, is an integral element; this fact is evident from referring to fighting against the Antichrist.

I love it. "Violence will not achieve its goal when applied to us, but when applies to everyone else it will achieve it's goals" What a joke :laugh:

 

[AreaCode7O7]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
You demand that Israel return the West Bank BEFORE any concession on the part of the Palestinians.

I demand Israel remove the Israel civilian settlers from Palestinian land. Israel has no legal right to the colonize that land and hence there is no concession Palestinians should make in return for that.

By "Palestinian land" do you mean Gaza and/or West Bank, or all of Israel? I'm unclear on whether your message is "pull back" or "GTFO Israel".

If the latter, that's completely unreasonable and would never yield a productive solution. If the former, I think it's a more reasonable request but you'd be in the minority of Palestinians (at least those in power). If Israel were to pull out of Gaza and West Bank, the Palestinian leaders would, I anticipate, continue to follow the GTFO Israel approach, with weapons.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
A good question, and with what you pointed out concerning Gaza as a precedent, I don't see how anyone can successfully spin this one either.

It was spun from the start, by Israeli leaders, leaving Gaza to decend into chaos while continuing to expand colonization of the West Bank.

Are you familar with the shell game?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_game

What would the purpose of having the military sitting around in Gaza while twiddling their tuhumbs.

The Pals wanted Israel out of Gaza. They wanted self determination. Hamas and/or Fatah wanted to control the area. When given the opportunity, they failed miserably as a government.

The same applies to the West Bank. What would the purpose of the military be? If they patrol, they will be targets as they are now. If they sit in their outposts, they are not accomplishing anything except to remind the haters that Israel still is in control.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Genx87
One thing I dont understand. Arent the palastinians pretty well armed as a populace?

Palestinian civilians have been denied the right to possess guns by Israeli martial law for 40 years now. Israeli military has guns, Israeli civilian settlers have guns, Israeli authorized Palestinian security officials have guns, and the terrorists have guns, but the Palestinian people are kept defenceless.

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Again, the settlers need to go, the occupation needs to stay and Gaza must be reoccupied while the reality of the settlers going brings calm to the conflict.

Do you really think that will calm things down? Because I am very dubious that would be much help long term. Which is what they all need, a long term solution.

Perhaps you don't realize that the settlers mentioned are half a million in number and growing, spread all over the West Bank, which Israel has been colonizing for over four decades now and has shown not intent to stop?

That is what is currently destroying any chance the Palestinian have of ever existing as a sovereign nation. With that understood, I don't see how there could be any doubt that withdrawing the settlers is imperative to the long term solution, and will go far in calming this conflict.

Originally posted by: RichardE

You have said you refuse to condone them which is in essence supporting them...

No, it means exactly the opposite. Please check a dictionary:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/condone

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

By "Palestinian land" do you mean Gaza and/or West Bank, or all of Israel? I'm unclear on whether your message is "pull back" or "GTFO Israel".

I mean Gaza and the West Bank, the two territories which the Palestinians have never ceded their rights to. Israel got the partition plan boarders from the UN, and at Oslo the Palestinians ceded their right to the land Israel had conquered beyond that in the 1948 war. That left Palestinians with only Gaza and the West Bank to establish and independent nation on, but Israel's ongoing colonization of the West Bank is actively destroying any hope the Palestinians could have of ever realizing that right.

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

If the former, I think it's a more reasonable request but you'd be in the minority of Palestinians (at least those in power). If Israel were to pull out of Gaza and West Bank, the Palestinian leaders would, I anticipate, continue to follow the GTFO Israel approach, with weapons.

Of course you do, as you were obviously taught has always been in the right to take whatever territory it chooses to and the people who live there are heathens to even think otherwise. Extremists on the other side are taught exactly the opposite. That is how such conflicts are perpetuated:

"...the people don't want war... But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy... people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders... All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked... denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."