Hamas: 'Breakthrough' in Palestinian talks

[JEDIYoda]

It would appear that they are attempting to United whatever that means.....
It would also appear that they would have no trouble adopting a United Hamas/Fatah Charter.

Even though a lot of pro-Palestinians will say this is a welcome developement.
I say lets wait and see how long this alliance will last.

Of course Israel has their justified concerns. What country wants to be surrounded by two factions, both of the calling for the destruction or the killing of Jews???

This is very interesting from several standpoints.......
The Hamas Charter calls -- http://mideastweb.org/hamas.htm
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. " -- no room for negotiations!

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."


Then we have Fatah --
http://www.mideastweb.org/fateh.htm
Fatah Constitution Article 19:
Armed struggle is a strategy and not a tactic, and the Palestinian Arab People's armed revolution is a decisive factor in the liberation fight and in uprooting the Zionist existence, and this struggle will not cease unless the Zionist state is demolished and Palestine is completely liberated.

The Oslo accords brought some changes in Fateh policy, but they continue to state:

It is logical that the future role of Fateh should be a natural continuation of its previous role of resistance, armed struggle and safeguarding the Intifada. Fateh is aware that it is always necessary to evolve and create new means and approaches for the struggle. Fateh’s basic activities, principles, strategies and objectives still constitute an indivisible part of its solid convictions and beliefs. It aims to achieve a just and durable peace by seeking to create a Democratic Palestinian State on all Palestinian land, where Muslims, Christians and Jews live side by side without racial or religious discrimination.



"Our goal has never been peace,” says a Fatah official in a PA TV panel. “Peace is a means; the goal is Palestine" – meaning the conquest of Israel.

Then we what Allah himself supposedly said --
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).


http://news.yahoo.com/hamas-breakth...RkbGUgZWFzdARwdANzdG9yeXBhZ2UEdGVzdAM-;_ylv=3

DOHA, Qatar (AP) — A senior Hamas political official says breakthrough deals have been reached with the rival Palestinian Authority on a reconciliation pact.

The message from Izzat Rishiq was posted on his Facebook page Monday shortly before a planned news conference in Qatar with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal.

Rishiq says a "major breakthrough" was reached, without specifying what it was. Talks have focused on forming a future unity government and releasing political prisoners in the West Bank, which is controlled by Abbas.

Hamas officials had previously suggested that Abbas would become prime minister in an interim Palestinian government that would prepare for general elections in Hamas-controlled Gaza and the West Bank.

 

[cybrsage]

Until HAMAS changes its charter, it cannot be a party to any peace talks. When the other party has your destruction as one of their non-negitiable demands there is no need to sit down to talk with them.

 

[Lemon law]

Until HAMAS changes its charter, it cannot be a party to any peace talks. When the other party has your destruction as one of their non-negitiable demands there is no need to sit down to talk with them.

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Maybe cybrsage unwittingly gets to the heart of it as Israeli hypocrisy is on display at its finest.

As Israel seeks to have it both ways now that Hamas, an unknown group during the Palestinian Israeli Negotiations of the 1990, split with Fatah, won the right through free elections to represent the Palestinians in Gaza, and finalized their split with Fatah in 2007.
Ever since, Israel has tightened their embargo of Gaza to near starvation levels, and instead of the Israeli embargo achieving its desire goals, it has only made Hamas more popular in Gaza. While international humanitarian aid organizations, peace activists, and fellow Arab States have been drawing international condemnation down on Israel.

While Israel propaganda distorts what Hamas actually is. Which is simply a political party, just like Fatah, the Democrats, the Republicans, or the various political parties in Israel all vying to be the democratically elected representative of their constituents. Fail to win the popular vote, subjects every political party to the fate of being no longer in power.

So I suggest every Israeli should be delighted with the prospect of the reunification of Hamas and Fatah. Because, platform one of the reunification calls for free and fair elections in both the Fatah ruled West Bank and East Jerusalem, and the same free and fair election in Hamas ruled Gaza, Meanwhile Abbas of Fatah will head the new unity team, with technocrats on both sides forming the body of the ruling council.

With some luck, Hamas as a political party will be voted out of power, and stay out of power as long as Palestinian Israeli peace talks prove productive.

But no no no, this so does not fit the Netanyuhu propaganda line. As he had it either way and now he sees it slipping.

After the Fatah Hamas rift, the Israeli line was no sense negotiating with Fatah, because they can't speak for all the Palestinian people. And now Netanyuhu says, if Fatah, the party of the non-violent Palestinians dare even talk with Hamas, they become tainted as terrorists and thus Israel will refuse to talk with them.

Its a great catch 22 for Israel, the Israeli problem if that fewer and fewer people in the world will buy it.

Of course, JediY already played his trump card first, as he states if even one Palestinian makes a bombastic statement it proves every Palestinian is bound by it. I am old enough to remember the Premier of the Soviet Union take off his shoe at the UN, pound the desk, and promise we will bury you. And I can cite even more bombastic statement made by Lieberman and Netanyuhu.

In short JediY, time and people change, and Israel is rapidly running out of justifications after 44 years to retain disputed lands.

 

[Sinsear]

Hamas is a terrorist enterprise. There should be no negotiations with them, ever.

 

[JEDIYoda]

While Israel propaganda distorts what Hamas actually is.

This is hardly a distortion. Please explain away these facts taken from Hamas very own charter --

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. " -- no room for negotiations!

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

 

[Lemon law]

Hamas is a terrorist enterprise. There should be no negotiations with them, ever.

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In pre1948 Israel which was then called the British mandate, The Jews were the worst terrorist in the region.

Does that mean, from the tainted past, we should not talk to Israelis today? During WW2 Germany and Japan were our worst enemy and now they are our allies today.

In all sincerity, sincear, idiots like you learn to realize to stop thinking like a child.

 

[cybrsage]

Lets play in this millenia, shall we?

 

[Jaskalas]

During WW2 Germany and Japan were our worst enemy and now they are our allies today.

I suppose you just suggested nuking them like we did Japan, or carpet bombing them like we did Germany. Military defeat is what brought those countries into the fold, where is Hamas's defeat?

Where is their repentance to give us the room to forgive them? They have not changed, they do not seek to change. Shall we follow your WW2 reference and FORCE them to change?

Or do you suggest we put up with their terrorism, if they will not change?

 

[Lemon law]

I suppose you just suggested nuking them like we did Japan, or carpet bombing them like we did Germany. Military defeat is what brought those countries into the fold, where is Hamas's defeat?

Where is their repentance to give us the room to forgive them? They have not changed, they do not seek to change. Shall we follow your WW2 reference and FORCE them to change?

Or do you suggest we put up with their terrorism, if they will not change?

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Again Jaskalas thinks like a child. Yes the USA beat the dog shit out of Japan and Germany, something that happened before I was born. And I dare guess before you were born either.

But the USA had smarter diplomats and leaders then. As history shows, we let up the Germans and Japs up gently, just as Abe Lincoln gentle let up the Southern rebels, nearly a century before. Subsequently the USA has beat the dog shit out of North Korea, the North Vietnamese, the military of Saddam Hussein, and the military of Afghanistan. But with stupider US leaders now, none of those beat the dog shit out of them victories have gained the USA anything other than bloody, expensive, and costly quagmires that have made the problems even more unresolved and deeper

Think Jaskalas or is that an impossible feat for you. There is more than one side to the story? And big US prices to pay for US diplomatic stupidity. As a US citizen I am sick and tired of US stinking thinking endangering our US prosperity and world peace. And yes, I believe Israel can become an accepted and positive part of the Mid-east. But the Bozo Netanyuhu strategy can only lead Israel to total disaster.

 

[Lemon law]

Or better yet, The USA should take a page out of the Israeli playbook after the historical election of 11/2012.

Who will win and does it matter, maybe the dimocrats, maybe the republirats, or maybe the Fibertarians will win.

According to the Israeli doctrine, the US winner of the 11/ 2012 vote has every right to declare the losing parties as terrorists organizations who should be jailed, stripped of their voting rights, and never be allowed to voice their treasonous ideas ever again.

As goes Israel, so should go the USA and all nations of the world.

 

[cybrsage]

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Again Jaskalas thinks like a child. Yes the USA beat the dog shit out of Japan and Germany, something that happened before I was born. And I dare guess before you were born either.

Why do you keep bringing up Israel and 1948 then? Is that extra 3 years the make or break point?

 

[cybrsage]

Or better yet, The USA should take a page out of the Israeli playbook after the historical election of 11/2012.

Who will win and does it matter, maybe the dimocrats, maybe the republirats, or maybe the Fibertarians will win.

According to the Israeli doctrine, the US winner of the 11/ 2012 vote has every right to declare the losing parties as terrorists organizations who should be jailed, stripped of their voting rights, and never be allowed to voice their treasonous ideas ever again.

As goes Israel, so should go the USA and all nations of the world.

HAMAS was listed as a terrorist group BEFORE the elections.

 

[Lemon law]

Hamas was listed as a terrorist organization by whom cybrsage. Antone can label anyone else a terrorists organization, as far as the Brits were concerned the whole United States was a terrorist idea.

 

[Jaskalas]

The key, Lemon law, to letting someone up is first you gotta knock them down. Let the world knock down Hamas, and there can be a peaceful coexistence. Until violence is abated by surrender, there will only be blood.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Hamas was listed as a terrorist organization by whom cybrsage. Anyone can label anyone else a terrorists organization, as far as the Brits were concerned the whole United States was a terrorist idea.

Hamas is two headed.
One handles social problems
The other is the militant dedicated to

• preventing peace
• destruction of Israel, no matter what the cost to the civilians.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Hamas was listed as a terrorist organization by whom cybrsage. Antone can label anyone else a terrorists organization, as far as the Brits were concerned the whole United States was a terrorist idea.

You think that means anything???
We are talking about Hamas! Not the Brits!

 

[Lemon law]

You think that means anything???
We are talking about Hamas! Not the Brits!

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No, Jediy, we are talking about the same Israeli propaganda line Netanyuhu is now using.

Israel is now saying once a terrorist organization, always a terrorist organization.

Why should the Brits feel different to day if that Israeli propaganda line is in any way valid.

And if you don't want to talk about the Brits, we could talk about the Afghan mujaheddin, when we aided them and helped them oust the Russians in the mid eighties, we called them freedom fighters, now that many of them now fight to oust the USA from Afghanistan, they get demoted back to terrorists.

300 million Arabs and and a growing majority in the world label Israel as a terrorist nation, and with good reason. Or we can talk about Nelson Mandella, called a terrorists by South African Apartheid Government, and he proved to be a rather fine human being and kept South Africa from descending into orgies of revenge.

Want some more examples, JEDIY, the word terrorist is not always accurate. And besides, the word terrorist better fits Israel now than it does Hamas.

 

[EagleKeeper]

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No, Jediy, we are talking about the same Israeli propaganda line Netanyuhu is now using.

Israel is now saying once a terrorist organization, always a terrorist organization.

Why should the Brits feel different to day if that Israeli propaganda line is in any way valid.

And if you don't want to talk about the Brits, we could talk about the Afghan mujaheddin, when we aided them and helped them oust the Russians in the mid eighties, we called them freedom fighters, now that many of them now fight to oust the USA from Afghanistan, they get demoted back to terrorists.

300 million Arabs and and a growing majority in the world label Israel as a terrorist nation, and with good reason. Or we can talk about Nelson Mandella, called a terrorists by South African Apartheid Government, and he proved to be a rather fine human being and kept South Africa from descending into orgies of revenge.

Want some more examples, JEDIY, the word terrorist is not always accurate. And besides, the word terrorist better fits Israel now than it does Hamas.

If Hamas wants to renounce terror against Israel, I am sure that there will be some give and pressure applied to Israel to reciprocate.

At present, Hamas has not done anything to reduce tensions from Gaza.

 

[cybrsage]

Hamas was listed as a terrorist organization by whom cybrsage. Anyone can label anyone else a terrorists organization, as far as the Brits were concerned the whole United States was a terrorist idea.

Austrailia, Canada, the EU, Israel, Japan, Jordan, the UK, and the US have them listed as a terrorist group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#International_designation_of_Hamas

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/iran_e0307.htm

 

[Lemon law]

In late breaking news it seems the Fatah and Hamas reunification re marriage has hit another snag. Kicking the can a little further down the road.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-...ip-challenges-palestinian-unity-deal-1.411781

Who knows what it will mean in the long term or the short. But still its relevant to this thread and I feel it must be honestly reported regardless if it bolsters or detracts from my political position.

Meanwhile in other late breaking news, Hezbollah has stated, if Israel attacks Iran, they may or may not choose to counter attack Israel.

 

[JEDIYoda]

they may or may not choose to counter attack Israel.

In other words -- Hezbollah does not want to get their butts kicked...of course they have a choice......duh...