Half of all white heroin users started by initially using prescription drugs

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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,397
47,696
136
I heard today this problem is claiming about 91 people a day. Breaks my heart when I contemplate all the young kids who don't have parents anymore over this.

Sounds like a great time for Jeff Sessions and others to remind people that big pharma is our friend and that non-toxic weed is the true danger.
 

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
4,464
596
126
I broke my wrist and bruised some ribs a couple weeks ago and, after all the talk recently, was pretty surprised to be prescribed a bottle of oxycodone.

It was nice for the ribs to sleep at first but the hangover from that stuff sucks. I threw it in the trash after two days because I thought it was bad to flush it into the water system. Probably should have just sold it.
 

bob4432

Lifer
Sep 6, 2003
11,727
46
91
I broke my wrist and bruised some ribs a couple weeks ago and, after all the talk recently, was pretty surprised to be prescribed a bottle of oxycodone.

It was nice for the ribs to sleep at first but the hangover from that stuff sucks. I threw it in the trash after two days because I thought it was bad to flush it into the water system. Probably should have just sold it.
In the future to get rid of medication, I have been told by my docs to pour liquid soap in the prescription bottle and then put the lid back on and put it in the garbage.
 

ReignQuake

Member
Dec 8, 2015
86
5
11
sorry, but there is a huge difference between a physical opiate addiction and a mental addiction such as marijuana, they are simply not equivalent.
There might be, but it wasn't any less addictive. I still needed it pure 24/7. I still spent every penny I had on it and it still took the place of medication I needed for physical disabilities and mental illness but wasn't given until they realised all of the problems. I was awake for 80 hours or more at a time back then.

When I stopped it was like a freight truck hit me. I couldn't function for weeks and I didn't produce a clean test for a year after, it was supposed to take 60 days. Just because there's an opiate reaction/addiction in the brain doesn't mean your entire body isn't crying out for what it wants, or what you want.

Despite that they still give me addictive medications. Isn't that a bad idea?
 
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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
The ultimate reason was that you had the opioid boom, followed by the market crash.

This sent all the "wealthy" opioid users into a huge issue. They lost insurance, they could no longer get a cheap fix from opioids because no prescription. Black Market opioids were expensive.

What else causes numbness, kills pain, is super cheap, and is very similar? Oh, Heroin.
bam, heroin epidemic.

Actually the government swooped in a "solved" the prescription drug pandemic. People that were hooked on prescription opiates were no longer able to get them because they simply couldn't get them prescribed. So the government "won" the war on prescription drug abuse (or at least significantly reduced it) but wound up driving people to insanely less safe heroin. So, umm, good job?
 
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MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
Actually the government swooped in a "solved" the prescription drug pandemic. People that were hooked on prescription opiates were no longer able to get them because they simply couldn't get them prescribed. So the government "won" the war on prescription drug abuse (or at least significantly reduced it) but wound up driving people to insanely less safe heroin. So, umm, good job?

True as well. I believe it was a combination of them though and not just one reason.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,652
15,847
146

Well white male conservatives have a culture of prescription drug abuse, gun violence, and white collar crime. Instead of condemning these perpetrators they are lauded.
rush_limbaugh.jpg


;)
 

bob4432

Lifer
Sep 6, 2003
11,727
46
91
I would have to say that what I have seen from friends, family, friends of friends, etc is that the docs seem to over-prescribe a much stronger pain med than what is really necessary for the ailment. What people use to get a small 5mg Vicodin prescription for (10-20pills), now are getting 20mg Oxycodone/Oxycontin (30+pills). People just need to understand that sometimes you just have to deal with the pain, it will keep you down so you can heal. I just do not understand why the docs seem to go to such strong meds first.
 

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
I would have to say that what I have seen from friends, family, friends of friends, etc is that the docs seem to over-prescribe a much stronger pain med than what is really necessary for the ailment. What people use to get a small 5mg Vicodin prescription for (10-20pills), now are getting 20mg Oxycodone/Oxycontin (30+pills). People just need to understand that sometimes you just have to deal with the pain, it will keep you down so you can heal. I just do not understand why the docs seem to go to such strong meds first.

This is where a personal belief of mine comes into play.

1: We need to make 'kickbacks' illegal in the healthcare world.
2: We need to make it illegal to advertise prescription medication.
 

bob4432

Lifer
Sep 6, 2003
11,727
46
91
This is where a personal belief of mine comes into play.

1: We need to make 'kickbacks' illegal in the healthcare world.
2: We need to make it illegal to advertise prescription medication.
I was under the impression that the kickbacks were for new meds. These pain meds that I have listed are all available in generic so they have been around a long time. I do agree with your personal beliefs though.
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
I would have to say that what I have seen from friends, family, friends of friends, etc is that the docs seem to over-prescribe a much stronger pain med than what is really necessary for the ailment. What people use to get a small 5mg Vicodin prescription for (10-20pills), now are getting 20mg Oxycodone/Oxycontin (30+pills). People just need to understand that sometimes you just have to deal with the pain, it will keep you down so you can heal. I just do not understand why the docs seem to go to such strong meds first.


Because medicine today is based on customer satisfaction. If someone complains they didnt get enough pain meds, you get fired and/or sent to jail. So everyone gets all the pain meds they want so they can leave 5* yelp reviews, and if they die in the process, oh well too bad.
 

Pneumothorax

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2002
1,181
23
81
Half? Bet it's higher than that. The entire heroin epidemic started because doctors were writing Oxy prescriptions like they came with free blow jobs (which might literally be true) and got a whole generation of people addicted to opiates.

You're conveniently leaving out the fucksticks in government at the CMS and JC that basically force fed my generation of fellow physicians with bullshit like "Pain is the 5th vital sign", "If you don't treat the patient's pain adequately, you're abusing the patient and taking away a fundamental right of pain relief!" That crap was shoved down our throats in the late 90's and early 2000's.... Funny how the whole opioid blame game is laid fully on physicians, when we don't get even a pen from drug reps anymore...

In case you didn't know who the CMS is, they're the branch of the feds that basically set the standards for Medicaid and Medicare, which um..., are responsible for a huge chunk of my paycheck. For example did you know the CMS bases part of physician reimbursement based on patient satisfaction scores on pain relief?!!
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
You're conveniently leaving out the fucksticks in government at the CMS and JC that basically force fed my generation of fellow physicians with bullshit like "Pain is the 5th vital sign", "If you don't treat the patient's pain adequately, you're abusing the patient and taking away a fundamental right of pain relief!" That crap was shoved down our throats in the late 90's and early 2000's.... Funny how the whole opioid blame game is laid fully on physicians, when we don't get even a pen from drug reps anymore...

In case you didn't know who the CMS is, they're the branch of the feds that basically set the standards for Medicaid and Medicare, which um..., are responsible for a huge chunk of my paycheck. For example did you know the CMS bases part of physician reimbursement based on patient satisfaction scores on pain relief?!!


Can't be. Government can't screw up anything health care related :D

When I think back I remember how much of a mess that was. Adequately treat pain. OK. So NSAIDS? sometimes but they don't work like "the good stuff", but there's the DEA who has quite a different take on Scheduled drugs and so doing the "right thing" wasn't a safe thing for the prescriber. Not good. Another problem was IMO inadequate understanding of proper pain management in the community practice and "adequate" was a completely useless term. It was an entire cluster. Finally someone defined adequate to mean not pain free but free enough to be functional and now most prescribers are better because there's better training and understanding as well as definitions.

But you and I know who is seeking when we see them, at least most of the time. In a Philly ER we saw them coming and pretty much knew what was going to be asked for. Pain can be hard to manage.
 
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1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Another huge role in all this, is during the 60's, 70's and the War on Drugs, something that was never really clued into people from a social perspective was that prescription drugs could be just as bad as 'hard drugs'. In school (in Texas at least) we were carpet bombed with this in the 90's about how bad drugs were, how pot made you do heroin made you eat people's faces on PCP. They never told you that mom taking three pills a day from a bottle that had a specific text on it might mean she's also an addict, oh and you broke your ankle doing stupid teenage stuff? Or have to get your wisdom teeth removed? Might wanna actually be careful when the doc gives you a prescription for 30x20mg of oxycodone, because maybe you don't need that much and maybe it'll lead you fighting addiction for your next 20 years.

I cannot fathom how the notion of pot being horrible for society but over-prescription of manufactured opiods being completely okay became a thing.


Easy to fathom, just follow the money, kind of hard to profit over something that can be grown in someones back yard in the same way you can over engineered pharmaceuticals that are made in million dollar plants with patent protection.

http://www.ozarkia.net/bill/pot/blunderof37.html
How Marijuana
Became Illegal

devil-s-harvest-movie-by-retro-a-go-go-poster.jpg
How Marijuana
Became Illegal

by Bud Fairy
Sula Io: What is hemp? Just another word for marijuana?

Yeah, and that's one of the things that happened in 1937. Cannabis Hemp was one of history's most widely used plants. Tincture of Cannabis was the basis for almost every patent medicine prior to the discovery of aspirin. Hemp was used for rope, twine, and cloth. Sailing ships were loaded with hemp. The word "canvas" is derived from "cannabis", because that's what canvas was. Sails were made of hemp because salt water deteriorated cotton. Old sails were made into wagon covers and ultimately original Levi's Jeans. And the pressed oil from hemp seeds was used for paints and varnishes. Everyone knew what hemp was. But nobody knew what marijuana was.

Basically, it came down to this. America in the 1900's saw two powerful rivals, agriculture and industry, faced off over several multi-billion dollar markets. When Rudolph Diesel produced his engine in 1896, he'd assumed it would run off of vegetable and seed oils, especially hemp, which is superior to petroleum. Just think about that for a second. A fuel that can be grown by our farmers that is superior to foreign oil. What a lot of history would have been rewritten!

reefer-madness.jpg
Ok. So we have an elite group of special interests dominated by Du Pont petrochemical company and it's major financial backer and key political ally, Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon. Mellon was a banker who took over Gulf Oil Corporation. In 1913, Henry Ford opened his first auto assembly line, and Gulf Oil opened its first drive-in gas station. In 1919, with ethanol fuel poised to comptete with gasoline, Alchohol Prohibition descended on the nation. Lucky Mellon. When President Harding made him Secretary of the Treasury, he was considered the richest man in America. In the 1920's, Mellon arranged for his bank to loan his buddies as Du Pont money to take over General Motors. Du Pont had developed new gasoline additives and the sulfate and sulfite process that made trees into paper.

In the 1930's, Ford Motor Company operated a successful biomass fuel conversion plant using cellulose at Iron Mountain, Michigan. Ford engineers extracted methanol, charcoal fuel, tar, pitch ethyl-acetate and creosote from hemp. The same fundamental ingredients for industry were also being made from fossil fuels.

During the same period, Du Pont was developing cellophane, nylon, and dacron from from fossil fuels. Du Pont held the patents on many synthetics and became a leader in the development of paint, rayon, synthetic rubber, plastics, chemicals, photographic film, insecticides and agricultural chemicals.

From the Du Pont 1937 Annual Report we find a clue to what started to happen next: "The revenue raising power of government may be converted into an instrument for forcing acceptance of sudden new ideas of industrial and social reoganization".

Ok, enter William Randolph Hearst. Hearst's company was a major consumer of the cheap tree-pulp paper that had replaced hemp paper in the late 19th century. The Hearst Corporation was also a major logging company, and produced Du Pont's chemical-drenched tree pulp paper, which yellowed and fell apart after a short time. Fueled by the advertising sold to the petrochemical industries, Hearst Newspapers were also known for their sensationalist stories. Hearst despised poor people, black people, chinese, hindus, and all other minorities. Most of all he hated Mexicans. Pancho Villa's cannabis-smoking troops had reclaimed some 800,000 acres of prime timberland from Hearst in the name of the mexican peasants. And all of the low-quality paper the company planned to make by deforesting it's vast timber holdings were in danger of being replaced by low-cost, high quality paper made from hemp.

rootsinhell.jpg
Hearst had always supported any kind of prohibition, and now he wanted cannabis included in every anti-narcotics bill. Never mind that cannabis wasn't a narcotic. Facts weren't important. The important thing was to have it completely removed from society, doctors, and industry.

Around 1920 or so, a new word arose - "Marihuana". Through screaming headlines and horror stories,"marihuana" was blamed for murderous rampages by blacks and mexicans. Hearst continued to use his power of the press to impress on his readers the dangers of the "marihuana" plant.

When the Federal Bureau of Narcotics was formed in 1932, Mellon's nephew Harry Anslinger was appointed its head, a job in Mellon's treasury department that was created just for him. Treasury agents were beginning to operate on their own agenda. Deep in the throes of the depression, congress began to reexamine all federal agencies. Anslinger began to fear that his department was in danger of emasculation. Although worldwide, hemp was still big business, in 1935 the Treasury Department began secretly drafting a bill called The Marihuana Tax Act. The Treasury Department's general counsul Herman Oliphant was put in charge of writing something that could get past both Congress and the Court disguised as a tax revenue bill. Congress wasn't all that interested in the matter, seeing as all the information they had to work with was what was provided to them by Anslinger. They deliberately collected horror stories on the evils of marihuana pulled primarily from the Hearst newspapers, called Anslinger's Gore Files. Crimes that had never happened at all were being attributed to marihuana.

So, in 1937, Anslinger went before a poorly attended committee hearing and called for a total ban on marihuana. He stated under oath "This drug is entirely the monster Hyde, the harmful effects of which cannot be measured". Bureaucrats planned the hearings to avoid the discussion of the full House and presented the measure in the guise of a tax revenue bill brought to the six member House Ways and Means Committee, chaired by Du Pont ally Robert Doughton of North Carolina. This bypassed the House without further hearings and passed it over to the Senate Finance Committee, controlled by another ally, Prentiss Brown of Michigan, where it was rubber stamped into law. Once on the books, Anslinger would "administer" the licensing process to make sure that no more commercial hemp was ever grown in the United States. Clinton Hesterm assistant general counsel for the Department of the Treasury, explained to the House Committee " The leading newspapers of the United States have recognized the seriousness of this problem and have advocated federal legislation to control.. marihuana...The marijuana cigarette is one of the most insidious of all forms of dope, largely because of the failure of the public to understand its fatal qualities."

rasta_girls2.jpeg
At the last minute, a few pro-hemp witnesses showed up. Most of the confusion came from the using of the word "marihuana". Most people had no idea that "marihuana", merely a slang word taken from a drinking song celebrating Pancho Villa's victory, "La Cucaracha", was the same thing as cannabis hemp, a plant which had been an important crop since the founding of the country. Ralph Loziers of the National Oil Seed Institute showed up representing paint manufacturers and lubrication oil processors, and stated that hempseed was an essential commodity. Dr. William C. Woodward of the American Medical Association spoke in defense of cannabis medicines and in protest of the way the bill was handled. Woodward complained that there was no certain data that marihuana use had increased, and stated that if it had, the "newspaper exploitation of the habit had done more to increase it than anything else". Asked point blank if he thought federal legislation was necessary, he replied "I do not .. it is not a medical addiction that is involved." Woodward went on to criticize the way the word "marihuana" had been used to deliberately confuse the medical and industrial hemp communities. "In all you have heard here thus far, no mention has been made of any excessive use of the drug or its excessive distribution by any pharmacist. And yet the burden of this bill is placed heavily on the doctors and pharmacists of the country, and may I say very heavily - most heavily, possibly of all - on the farmers of this country... We can not understand yet ... why this bill should have been prepared in secret for two years without any initiative, even to the profession, that it was being prepared ... no medical man would identify this bill with a medicine until he read it through, because marijuana is not a drug, ... simply a name given cannabis."

A few days later, Representative Fred Vinson of Kentucky was asked to summarize the AMA's position. He lied to the effect that the medical group's legislative counsul (Woodward) "Not only gave this measure full support, but also the approval from the AMA."

The act passed without a roll call vote. Now we can see why it was prepared in secret - passage of the Act put all hemp industries firmly under the control of the very special interests that most benefited from its repression over the years - prohibition police and bureaucrats working in collusion with the petrochemical companies, the timber companies, the alcohol and tobacco industries, the pharmaceutical drug companies, and today, the urine testing, property seizure, police and prison industries.

In that same year, 1937, Du Pont filed its patent on Nylon, a synthetic fiber that took over many of the textile and cordage markets that would have gone to hemp. More than half the American cars on the road were built by GM, which guaranteed Du Pont a captive market for paints, varnishes, plastics, and rubber, all which could have been made from hemp. Furthermore, all GM cars would subsequently be designed to use tetra-ethyl leaded fuel exclusively, which contained additives that Du Pont manufactured. All competition from hemp had been outlawed.
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,904
34,024
136
So the goal of universal healthcare is to bring up these numbers for minorities? :p
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,389
16,668
146
Same here, however they get prescribed for nearly everything now. Both nieces wisdom teeth had them prescribed

I did for wisdom teeth, but I was aware of what they were, as such I only took them when the pain was unbearable, took advil otherwise. I think I had 3? out of a bottle of like 25. Massively overprescribed.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
17,403
136
I did for wisdom teeth, but I was aware of what they were, as such I only took them when the pain was unbearable, took advil otherwise. I think I had 3? out of a bottle of like 25. Massively overprescribed.

Yeah my Sister said they each only took one or two however I really think they aren't required for this. When mine were removed decades ago I was just told to take a double dose of Tylenol. I think our expectations and assumed expectations for pain have been greatly exaggerated.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,389
16,668
146
Yeah my Sister said they each only took one or two however I really think they aren't required for this. When mine were removed decades ago I was just told to take a double dose of Tylenol. I think our expectations and assumed expectations for pain have been greatly exaggerated.

Mine was genuinely hurting enough that I felt like I needed it the following 2-3 days. I wasn't exactly roiling on the floor asking someone to put me down, but about once a day in the late afternoon it started to shift into a solid 7-8/10 and I felt a migraine coming on so I popped one back then went to sleep. They seriously gave me enough for like 2-a-day for two weeks though. Hell, I was only given a Friday off, not sure what they were expecting me to do. Be jacked up at work, I guess.

My wisdom teeth were in great shape when they yanked them though, I think the dentist that called for it was an SOB that just wanted to justify his existence as I had been cleared by like 4x military doctors prior to that, then he saw them and was like 'those will probably end up with cavities, we'll just pull them now'. Might have contributed to the additional pain for me, not sure.