Half Life 2 - a closer look

[0roo0roo]

Doom 3's "revolutionary" lighting system was terrible. You could stand 2 feet from a wall and still it's completely black. You could point the flashlight into darkness and still see shadows. Light... shadows... Doesn't work. All the models had pointy "crowned" heads. The textures were plain. The graphics were kind of cartoony, while HL2 was more realistic. The mouths moved just as unrealisticly as the past generation games, they were better in HL2.

thats not the engines fault. the flashlight is not using any advanced lighting fx in order to save resources😛 id engines always have plenty of room to grow.

cs source is the best mp of all the games listed,that pushes it over the top. far cry had a pretty island yes, but its indoors enviroments pale in comparison to hl2

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: apoppin
How could tell the Doom iii engine is so wonderful? - the game is a POS - we never get to see (large) outdoor or lit up scenes 😛

The Starbreeze engine is a better engine then HL2 and probably better than Doom iii's . . . . and Chronicles of Riddick: Escape is a very (very) good game with (much) better character modeling than Diii's or HL2's.

Riddick = http://media.pc.gamespy.com/me...91009/img_2509453.html
Doom3 = http://www.planetdoom.com/imag...hi-res-trailer/31a.jpg

I think some of you people need to go back and play doom3. Because now you are just overly bashing the game with little or no credit of what it DID do superbly.

Some more Doom3 reminders, but I'd rather you just go run the fvcking game again and stop talking out your asses:
http://www.planetdoom.com/imag...shots/official/15l.jpg
http://www.planetdoom.com/imag...shots/official/10l.jpg

Lets all take another look at what game has superior models as far as apoppin "the doom3 hater" is concerned. http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/sourtimes/Untitled-4.jpg

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: malak
The Doom3 engine IS a better engine. Anyone who argues that has a hole in their head. HL2 was evolutionary (hence why the old games port so well to it) while Doom3 was revolutionary.

I've asked this dozens of times and never a response. WTF is revolutionary about Doom3? Put up or shut up fanboi.

Doom 3's "revolutionary" lighting system was terrible. You could stand 2 feet from a wall and still it's completely black. You could point the flashlight into darkness and still see shadows. Light... shadows... Doesn't work. All the models had pointy "crowned" heads. The textures were plain. The graphics were kind of cartoony, while HL2 was more realistic. The mouths moved just as unrealisticly as the past generation games, they were better in HL2.

HL2 beat doom 3 out in every category. Doom 3 is hardly popular compared to HL2. Reviewers dissed Doom 3. If you weren't such a fanboi you'd realize D3 doesn't come close to being competition with HL2.

Now a real engine that will make doom3 look like doom1 is unreal3. Best lighting system ever.[/quote]

Yup, the heads were crowned, the lighting is terrible, the graphics are cartoony and unreal3 is is a valuable comparison. And you want me to fvcking take you seriously? HAHA

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: apoppin
How could tell the Doom iii engine is so wonderful? - the game is a POS - we never get to see (large) outdoor or lit up scenes 😛

The Starbreeze engine is a better engine then HL2 and probably better than Doom iii's . . . . and Chronicles of Riddick: Escape is a very (very) good game with (much) better character modeling than Diii's or HL2's.

Riddick = http://media.pc.gamespy.com/me...91009/img_2509453.html
Doom3 = http://www.planetdoom.com/imag...hi-res-trailer/31a.jpg

I think some of you people need to go back and play doom3. Because now you are just overly bashing the game with little or no credit of what it DID do superbly.

Some more Doom3 reminders, but I'd rather you just go run the fvcking game again and stop talking out your asses:
http://www.planetdoom.com/imag...shots/official/15l.jpg
http://www.planetdoom.com/imag...shots/official/10l.jpg

Lets all take another look at what game has superior models as far as apoppin "the doom3 hater" is concerned. http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/sourtimes/Untitled-4.jpg

Maybe YOU ought to go and play Doom iii again (it's already affected the way you think). 😛
:roll:

Chronicles of Riddick is a great game . . . . Doom ii is a POS.

And show me some brightly lit outdoor scene in Diii :shocked:
:roll:

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
I just wanna know why people put SOF2 on their lists. I installed and played a bit of it. It seemed to much of them trying to take a perfectly fun shoot-'em-up game (SOF1) and throwing in a slow-moving plot line, where you just kill people. Granted, I didn't play a lot of it. But it takes a lot for me to uninstall a game that I've started playing 😛

Ok, not many people liked the SP aspect of SoF2. I didn't have a problem with it, in fact I loved it. The levels were huge, and the first one took you through a hotel. I walked around with a pistol and when a guard would spot me, I'd shoot him in the neck! See, the level of detail put into how people die is better in sof2 than any other game ever. The guy grabs for his neck with blood splurting out and he falls to the ground. There are 16 seperate pieces of the body that can be blown off, including the ears. I shot a guy in the arm a couple times and he couldn't aim straight anymore. Shoot them in the leg and they limp. Sometimes they just throw their gun down and run away scared.

MP was your typical CTF, DM, TDM, and elim. But it also had infiltration and demolition which weren't so bad. Plus you could still blow heads off. There were a lot of great mods made for it, like the little known JIHAD mod by Reverend Ted. One guy has a gun, everyone else has grenades. But they can't throw them! Brilliant!

Me and some sof2 peeps recently switched over to CS:S though. After played sof2 for 2 years it's time to move on.

 

[Malak]

Skace, you must not have an eye for detail at all if you can still post screenshots and not see the suckiness that is doom 3. Look at the hands, look at the heads, look at the textures. Look at the pointyness all around the model. Look at the severe lack of detail in the textures. It's gross. The Riddick screenshot shows it even more. The engine is shit.

 

[skaarj]

seriously I would tell you guys to just learn a bit more about game engines source engine STILL uses lightmaps that goes way back to quake2 engine, great imporvement there, the bump mapping is not half as good on source, in doom you get unified per pixel lighting which mean that nothing is lit unless a light is poinitng to it that also means caracters, have you ever seen a character been fully hidden in the dark in HL2?? no cause that's not supported by the eninge so that is pretty revolutionary features considering is in no engines beside the doom3 engine and also if you say taht standing 2 feet away from the wall doesn't lit it up just go and play the game cause you are really forgetting what the game is like, and if the shadows don't disappear when you point a light to it is because it does soft shadows they are still there but they are just a bit more faded that's all and a few of them do fade, also remeber that not every object in doom3 cast a shodow you can disable it in the eninge just like you would do with mental ray and that is done in real time so that is another revolutionary thing about the eninge.
if we wanna go into specific parts of the engine sources engine still uses carmark's own client side protection as a network for MP and doom3 uses a new technology always from carmark which delays your shoot time depending on your ping, ie. if you have a ping of let's say 50ms when you click the mouse only 50ms later you will actually shoot this is a much better system for BB like multyplayer since now almost everyone is using broadband and this technology is more scalable

and last but surely not least if anyone is wondering how the doom3 engine can't make graphics like HL2 here's the proof it can

this were maps created in doom3 editor with HL2 textures
http://www.gamingforums.org/forum/files/hl2d35.jpg
http://www.gamingforums.org/forum/files/hl2d33.jpg
http://www.gamingforums.org/forum/files/hl2d32.jpg
http://www.gamingforums.org/forum/files/hl2d31.jpg
http://img23.exs.cx/my.php?loc...&image=hl2d3_1.jpg
http://img13.exs.cx/my.php?loc...&image=hl2d3_2.jpg
you can see a much better lighing and always remeber liging can be just as dark as bright all you have to do is make the light more or less powerfull, but it does make difference depending on how good the lighing eninge is and doom3 is far superior to source on this

here's the thread where those screenshot are from
http://www.doom3world.org/phpb...der=asc&highlight=

all I have to say if there are fanoboi saying how better an eninge is are the HL2 ones

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: malak
Outcast on the source engine would rock. Not the Doom 3 engine, that engine sucks. It is not more realistic in the least. Graphics are what you make of them. Doom 3 graphics were horrid, but quake 3 graphics were horrid too. That didn't stop some good looking quake3 games to come out, like Soldier of Fortune 2. SoF2 has better graphics than doom 3 in my opinion.

The serious engine is probably better than anything ID will make. I would say source though simply because it's a lot better than serious right now. Although a new serious is being developed.

SoF2 on source would be the best FPS ever.

WTF? Put the goddamn crackpipe down.

Oh wait! You are the same guy who said DM is just luck. Which really means, you don't have a fvcking clue what you are talking about, so I'm not even sure why I even bothered replying to you in the first place. DM ... just luck... brilliant!

Thank you.

Oh and Doom 1+2 > Half-life > Wolfenstein 3D > Far Cry > HL-2/Doom3 > NoLF 2 🙂

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: skaarj
seriously I would tell you guys to just learn a bit more about game engines source engine STILL uses lightmaps that goes way back to quake2 engine, great imporvement there, the bump mapping is not half as good on source, in doom you get unified per pixel lighting which mean that nothing is lit unless a light is poinitng to it that also means caracters, have you ever seen a character been fully hidden in the dark in HL2?? no cause that's not supported by the eninge so that is pretty revolutionary features considering is in no engines beside the doom3 engine and also if you say taht standing 2 feet away from the wall doesn't lit it up just go and play the game cause you are really forgetting what the game is like, and if the shadows don't disappear when you point a light to it is because it does soft shadows they are still there but they are just a bit more faded that's all and a few of them do fade, also remeber that not every object in doom3 cast a shodow you can disable it in the eninge just like you would do with mental ray and that is done in real time so that is another revolutionary thing about the eninge.
if we wanna go into specific parts of the engine sources engine still uses carmark's own client side protection as a network for MP and doom3 uses a new technology always from carmark which delays your shoot time depending on your ping, ie. if you have a ping of let's say 50ms when you click the mouse only 50ms later you will actually shoot this is a much better system for BB like multyplayer since now almost everyone is using broadband and this technology is more scalable

and last but surely not least if anyone is wondering how the doom3 engine can't make graphics like HL2 here's the proof it can

this were maps created in doom3 editor with HL2 textures
http://www.gamingforums.org/forum/files/hl2d35.jpg
http://www.gamingforums.org/forum/files/hl2d33.jpg
http://www.gamingforums.org/forum/files/hl2d32.jpg
http://www.gamingforums.org/forum/files/hl2d31.jpg
http://img23.exs.cx/my.php?loc...&image=hl2d3_1.jpg
http://img13.exs.cx/my.php?loc...&image=hl2d3_2.jpg
you can see a much better lighing and always remeber liging can be just as dark as bright all you have to do is make the light more or less powerfull, but it does make difference depending on how good the lighing eninge is and doom3 is far superior to source on this

here's the thread where those screenshot are from
http://www.doom3world.org/phpb...der=asc&highlight=

all I have to say if there are fanoboi saying how better an eninge is are the HL2 ones

Carmack's gfx may be revolutionary but he does NOT have a CLUE how to make a decent modern FPS . . . . DOOM iii is GARBAGE. 😛
:roll:

 

[skaarj]

well that's a really subjective thing I mean I enjoy doom3 more then half life in gameplay everyone has they're own preferences which cannot be proved or tested as in which is a better fps cause again that's subjective

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: skaarj
well that's a really subjective thing I mean I enjoy doom3 more then half life in gameplay everyone has they're own preferences which cannot be proved or tested as in which is a better fps cause again that's subjective

Doom iii is almost universally boring for adults. 😉

 

[skaarj]

I tough hl2 was boring and kinda repetitive, cause it was always the same riddles, and even the part with the funboat get on the boat for 20 an obstacle get out people coming at ya you kill them open the door more people at ya kill them get back on the boat 20 more sec another door closed luckly enough you have somenthing in the middle of the river that is hanging there just at the right angle so that you can jump the obstacle then you jump and over and over again...

doom3 had no riddles it had no challanges in some ways but that is what I was expecting from the game so I was happy with it also i like this kinda shoot everything you see games I mean I still play quake2

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: skaarj
I tough hl2 was boring and kinda repetitive, cause it was always the same riddles, and even the part with the funboat get on the boat for 20 an obstacle get out people coming at ya you kill them open the door more people at ya kill them get back on the boat 20 more sec another door closed luckly enough you have somenthing in the middle of the river that is hanging there just at the right angle so that you can jump the obstacle then you jump and over and over again...

doom3 had no riddles it had no challanges in some ways but that is what I was expecting from the game so I was happy with it also i like this kinda shoot everything you see games I mean I still play quake2

That I agree with as well.
I thought they were about equal, but as it stands now, it seems more likely that I'd be playing Doom III again.
And I definitely agree about the puzzles in HL2, boring and repetitive.
But then again, so was the "Imp spawning behind your back" thing in Doom III.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: skaarj
I tough hl2 was boring and kinda repetitive, cause it was always the same riddles, and even the part with the funboat get on the boat for 20 an obstacle get out people coming at ya you kill them open the door more people at ya kill them get back on the boat 20 more sec another door closed luckly enough you have somenthing in the middle of the river that is hanging there just at the right angle so that you can jump the obstacle then you jump and over and over again...

doom3 had no riddles it had no challanges in some ways but that is what I was expecting from the game so I was happy with it also i like this kinda shoot everything you see games I mean I still play quake2

The Chronicles of Riddick blew HL2 away in the "gameplay" department so i won't argue about HL2's repetitiveness. 😉

However, Doom iii is a POS game - "banal" is the best single descriptive word i can find . . . Diii is a "Boo" one-note-horror "opera" endlessly brayed over-and-over. Plus - its ONLY innovation - the PDA takes you OUT of the game; not to mention the Soul Cube makes it stupidly easy.😛
:roll:

Doom iii can't hold a candle to Doom or Doom II (eXcept for GFX). Serious Sam does the endless hordes of enemies MUCH better (plus it is FUN; doom iii is NOT fun)
:thumbsdown:

 

[user1234]

Sure, but there's no denying the doom 3 engine is just superb. I don't really get people like Malak that don't even seem to notice that difference. If you really can't tell the difference, just think of something that doom 3 and HL2 have in common - zombies ! Can you compare in your mind a zombie in HL2 and a zombie in D3 ? I mean, the D3 zombie is beautifully rendered and extremely detailed, while HL2 zombie is more like old fashined sprite baddie, which just gets magnified as it moves closer. This is the same for every other detail in the game pretty much. The best way to niotice it is to watch the game while not playing so you can notice these details, otherwise the monster jumping at you from a hole in the wall is going to spoil the delight of the next gen graphics.

 

[user1234]

I just installed my doom3 copy on Linux and it works great. I again re-iterate the fact that this engine is just superior in the way it renders indoor environments so realistically. I don't know anything about its outdoor or long-range capabilities as I only played thru a few level where the farthest you can see is 50 feet, but obviously it would have to handle outdoors to compete against FC and HL2. There was one instance I did go outdside in the beginning, and that looked quite impressive as well, but in any case I don't think HL2 can touch this engine for inddors environments.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: user1234
Sure, but there's no denying the doom 3 engine is just superb. I don't really get people like Malak that don't even seem to notice that difference. If you really can't tell the difference, just think of something that doom 3 and HL2 have in common - zombies ! Can you compare in your mind a zombie in HL2 and a zombie in D3 ? I mean, the D3 zombie is beautifully rendered and extremely detailed, while HL2 zombie is more like old fashined sprite baddie, which just gets magnified as it moves closer. This is the same for every other detail in the game pretty much. The best way to niotice it is to watch the game while not playing so you can notice these details, otherwise the monster jumping at you from a hole in the wall is going to spoil the delight of the next gen graphics.

NO one will deny that the Doom iii engine isn't awesome . . . it's just that the GAME is SO bad. 😛

i really am looking forward to another game - other than id - based on this engine. 😉

However, it is NOT "that" spectacular . . . . when you compare to HL2, FC and Chron of Riddick (and even Thief III/Max Payne II) GFX. 😉
(and i have zero doubt that STALKER and Serious Sam will look great also) 🙂

Personally, i would be very satisfied to play a great game with sub-spectacular gfx rather than a crap game with great gfx. Doom iii really has me p.o.'d . . . :|

 

[skace]

It isn't whether the Doom3 engine can render outdoor environments. It is whether your computer could even handle a Doom3 rendered outdoor environment. Which it can't.

Thanks for helping me out Skaarj, some of the people here are barely worth arguing with, but it was getting a little rediculous and I appreciate the help 🙂. Some of the posters here will try to get you to believe that the Doom3 engine is worse than Pong.

 

[skace]

Interesting post in this thread: http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=64423

"http://pwp.netcabo.pt/Tobril/d3_outdoor_test2.jpg

Fun facts:

- The map has one of those big (by itself) outdoor meshes and I cloned it 8 times.
- It takes rougly 10 mins walking to the back of the map.
- Red arrow points to the Rover (for scale).
- Draw distance is as big or even bigger than FarCry (for instance, a zombie standing on top of the the last tower would be the size of about 4 pixels on screen).
- Bigass light with "clouds" material (I'm making a huge outdoors map in the middle of a martian sandstorm).
- Polycounts close to 100k per frame in that shot (which is about 2 months old). My newer stuff has higher polycounts per frame than a regular outdoor FarCry frame.
- I disabled the fps_lock, notice the framerate. EDIT: 1024 @ High Quality (I have a 9800 Pro 128mb)

Rich: if you need any help, count me in."

by Mordenkainen


More interesting imageS:
http://www.gamingforums.org/forum/files/largetest1.jpg
http://img91.exs.cx/my.php?loc...;image=shot00007_4.jpg
http://img123.exs.cx/my.php?lo...;image=shot00002_4.jpg

 

[igowerf]

Originally posted by: skace
It isn't whether the Doom3 engine can render outdoor environments. It is whether your computer could even handle a Doom3 rendered outdoor environment. Which it can't.

Thanks for helping me out Skaarj, some of the people here are barely worth arguing with, but it was getting a little rediculous and I appreciate the help 🙂. Some of the posters here will try to get you to believe that the Doom3 engine is worse than Pong.

Everything is worse than Pong though.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: skace
It isn't whether the Doom3 engine can render outdoor environments. It is whether your computer could even handle a Doom3 rendered outdoor environment. Which it can't.

Thanks for helping me out Skaarj, some of the people here are barely worth arguing with, but it was getting a little rediculous and I appreciate the help 🙂. Some of the posters here will try to get you to believe that the Doom3 engine is worse than Pong.

Sure it can . . . . we saw ONE outdoor example in Diii. . . . . nothin' special 😛
:roll:

Oh yeah, level loading time also suck in Doom iii (and even HL2) . . . . OTOH, Chron of Riddick has very fast - unobtrusive - level loading. 😛
:roll:

Pong's gameplay is even better than Doom iii's
:roll:

no one is really picking on the engine (yet) as we have only one (single) example of a piss-poor game using it. 😉

 

[RampantAndroid]

Well, I must agree with people who think Doom 3 is complete SheiBe. It is....its too dark (oohh, ductape mod!) and to darn repetitive (oh, look...its a fat thing coming out of a hidden compartment...how'd he get in there anyway?) Its shadow engine was good, but that describes the game: dark. I have played games such as Theif 3 and entertained myself for hours (although I didnt like the "Shalebridge Cradle" level, but it is prob one of the scariest game levels I've ever heard of)

Firstly, HL2's grapihcs were awesome (most noteably, the water) Its gameplay could've been better, and the Havok physics engine was awesome with how they applied it (to everything) Now the ending...that is another story. It sucked. All there is to say. To much of a cliff hanger, leaving a character like Alyx hanging there, to die? we dont know, but we can assume it. Who the ^*$# is the Gman anyway? I've read its your future self...your twin brother...either way, he shows up MULTIPLE times throughout the game, but there are now explanations. EX- Dr. Breen talks of how your services are up for bid to highest paying person.

I guess they want you to get HL3 or whatever expansions they come up with. Easily, I will say this dwarfs any star wars game, perhaps any other game. It is monstrous, and I enjoyed most of it. What is almost enough for me to come to dislike, almost hate it, is how the first part has no focus (Run, Gordon, RUN!) and the latter half, (ravenholm onwards) is rushed...more (run, Gordon, RUN!) and then some Antlion fun and then suddenly, you are playing point and click for the final "boss".

I think, if valve opens the engine up to other games, that I will thouroughly enjoy most stuff build on it. If they don't, I'd say it has been 5, no, 6 years wasted.

HL3 Had better have some good explanations as to what has happened....if I haven't grown too old when they release it.

As for the D3 engine, the gameplay did suck. The graphics were amusing for a while, but then the constant barrage got annoying. Stupid. Hell just pissed me off. I didn't even bother to finish it...I stopped when I could beat the thing that protected the soul cube. I think that engine has no future....maybe in 4 years with the NV70 videocard, then you'll be able to run it fine for outside stuff.....but by then, we'll being using holograms or some SheiBe like that. LOL!

 

[Bonesdad]

I'd have to rank Far Cry and HL2 about even. The story in Far Cry is pretty good, but damn, the voice acting is so terrible, I find it laughable. Esp Jack - sounds like a 12 year old. I like the fact Gordon Freeman doesn't speak. And the atmosphere of HL2 is very creepy and oppressive, way scarier than Doom3. Doom 3 is a throwaway game. I might pick it up in the $10 bin for myself - should be there soon. Just glad a friend paid $$$ for it and not me.