Half hour a day wasted going through security at work and not paid

[Thebobo]

If they hadn't been stealing on a daily basis, this would not be necessary.

yes mom!

 

[HomerJS]

Some of these people are part time. An unpaid mandatory thirty minutes tacked onto a four hour shift at $10 an hour is not insignificant.


lol Darth Vader Ginsberg, "right wing idiot".


Philosophically I agree with you, but a unanimous verdict suggests that the law is actually quite clear.

Man, the Ninth Circus is NOT having a good session. They are 0 for 4.

Why to you assume SC is correct and NC is wrong?? After all the SC gave us Plessey v Ferguson and Bush v Gore.

 

[Sonikku]

What a great place to work where the company treats everyone like thieving bastards. Glad it's not my job.

 

[rudeguy]

Perhaps there should be a standard way of calculating work time. I think it would be in everyone's best interest to make it clear when the work day starts for someone. I'd say having the clock or log-in procedure located within x many feet of an unimpeded entrance to be a good place to start the discussion.

Then what's to keep employees from fucking off for an hour before they start work?

This is just another time when people are proven to be greedy, whiny idiots who need to shut up and get to work.

 

[trenchfoot]

As a once upon a time Union business agent, here's some things I've seen happen when, as a whole, employees of XY Company feel they have been treated unfairly and they have no other amicable recourse to turn to: Morale goes down the shitter, work slowdowns occur, more mysterious unaccountable "mistakes" get made, sick leaves increase, efforts into cheating the company out of time or assets ramp up, sabotage at various levels of ingenuity get committed and cooperation between workers and management gets damaged, resulting in management becoming more adversarial, micromanaging and unscrupulous. And then things really go downhill from there.

I'm not really sure if Amazon had taken worker retribution into account when they decided to keep workers at work without paying them for it, but what I am sure of is that there will be acts of hidden defiance and revenge that will affect Amazon's bottom line.

"Forcing" a group of employees to spend their personal time at work without compensating them for it and then not applying same to others in the company is bound to create problems that at times can get way out of hand.

IMO, theft of time and efficiency is more damaging than theft of goods.

Let the games begin.

edit - It seems to me that because this initiative is owned by Amazon, it would be their responsibility and to their benefit if they would somehow speed up the exit screening process without taking an increased hit on the pilferage side.

 

[Kushina]

Why is this even being discussed. So stupid. Amazon should be paying for it.

 

[xBiffx]

What a great place to work where the company treats everyone like thieving bastards. Glad it's not my job.

R. Lee Ermey said it best:

If it wasn't for dickheads like you, there wouldn't be any thievery in this world.

In all seriousness though, he was right. You aren't going to stop thieves from thinking about stealing, wanting to steal, or attempting to steal. All you can do is remove their ability to steal.

 

[Triumph]

As a once upon a time Union business agent, here's some things I've seen happen when, as a whole, employees of XY Company feel they have been treated unfairly and they have no other amicable recourse to turn to: Morale goes down the shitter, work slowdowns occur, more mysterious unaccountable "mistakes" get made, sick leaves increase, efforts into cheating the company out of time or assets ramp up, sabotage at various levels of ingenuity get committed and cooperation between workers and management gets damaged, resulting in management becoming more adversarial, micromanaging and unscrupulous. And then things really go downhill from there.

I'm not really sure if Amazon had taken worker retribution into account when they decided to keep workers at work without paying them for it, but what I am sure of is that there will be acts of hidden defiance and revenge that will affect Amazon's bottom line.

"Forcing" a group of employees to spend their personal time at work without compensating them for it and then not applying same to others in the company is bound to create problems that at times can get way out of hand.

IMO, theft of time and efficiency is more damaging than theft of goods.

Let the games begin.

edit - It seems to me that because this initiative is owned by Amazon, it would be their responsibility and to their benefit if they would somehow speed up the exit screening process without taking an increased hit on the pilferage side.

Here's the truth, and it isn't a Union thing. Same thing happens when you treat white collared people like shit. Case in point: a team I'm familiar with had a problem with a few individuals coming to work on time. Instead of dealing with those individuals directly, management instituted a sign in/sign out policy for EVERYONE. That was the "fair" way to do it, to avoid the people in question complaining any time anyone ELSE came in late (never mind they stayed late the night before).

Well you know what happens when you punish everyone for the actions of a few? Everyone is now irate. And what happens with people's time in particular? No one stays late to finish anything. When 4:30 rolls around, people drop what they're doing and leave, doesn't matter if it has to be demonstrated at 8 AM the next day to the customer. No one is going to go the extra mile for a boss who doesn't trust his own employees.

 

[hal2kilo]

Here's the truth, and it isn't a Union thing. Same thing happens when you treat white collared people like shit. Case in point: a team I'm familiar with had a problem with a few individuals coming to work on time. Instead of dealing with those individuals directly, management instituted a sign in/sign out policy for EVERYONE. That was the "fair" way to do it, to avoid the people in question complaining any time anyone ELSE came in late (never mind they stayed late the night before).

Well you know what happens when you punish everyone for the actions of a few? Everyone is now irate. And what happens with people's time in particular? No one stays late to finish anything. When 4:30 rolls around, people drop what they're doing and leave, doesn't matter if it has to be demonstrated at 8 AM the next day to the customer. No one is going to go the extra mile for a boss who doesn't trust his own employees.

Yep, your example in the second paragraph has happened at places I've work at more than once. It amzing what stupid managers can do for morale and the bottom line.

 

[marincounty]

R. Lee Ermey said it best:

If it wasn't for dickheads like you, there wouldn't be any thievery in this world.

In all seriousness though, he was right. You aren't going to stop thieves from thinking about stealing, wanting to steal, or attempting to steal. All you can do is remove their ability to steal.

You've got it wrong.

When a company steals my time, I'm going to start thinking about what can I steal from this company.

 

[werepossum]

I would think so. If this is something mandated as part of the condition of employment; I don't see why not. If I was hourly and had to clean my desk/work area before I leave I sure as shit wouldn't be doing on my own time.


Edit: To expand on the analogy, if you're hired as cashier for couple hours a week to a store with the caveat that you have to help clean up afterwards and that clean up turns out to double your stay there, I suppose you can always quit. Sort of odd though, because the management could extract a ton of free labor via turnover. Clearly there's huge information asymmetry there where employees wouldn't price in the cost of lengthy clean up into their original negotiation as cashiers.

That's what I thought as well, but obviously the law is clear-cut and says different.

Perhaps there should be a standard way of calculating work time. I think it would be in everyone's best interest to make it clear when the work day starts for someone. I'd say having the clock or log-in procedure located within x many feet of an unimpeded entrance to be a good place to start the discussion.

They have that. Problem is, when Amazon says the work day ends, the worker cannot leave because of Amazon's requirements; even though the worker is not doing anything to benefit Amazon (unless he's been stealing), his presence is dictated by Amazon. We demand you do this other thing before your time becomes your own. Personally I'd have no problem if it was something that normally takes limited time, like getting your eyes tested yearly or a monthly drug test, but this is every single shift. Amazon pays pretty well for unskilled labor and I suspect most of their workers are okay with this ruling, but if you work a four hour shift and have to spend 30 or 40 minutes getting through security on your own time, that's a significant cut in your real pay rate.

Why to you assume SC is correct and NC is wrong?? After all the SC gave us Plessey v Ferguson and Bush v Gore.

That's true and at least morally I think it should have gone the other way, but while SCOTUS has given us a few stinkers over the years, usually it's the Ninth Circus whose decisions get overturned and stay overturned.