Hakeem vs Shaq vs D.Rob vs Ewing

[futurefields]

Who would you pick as your center? Fuck it let's talk basketball

 

[smackababy]

I am pretty sure you've already made this thread.

And Hakeem, obviously.

 

[Captante]

Hakeem, obviously.

Yep.

Nothing to see here move along.

 

[preslove]

Bill Russel? Wilt Chamberlain?

 

[SP33Demon]

Wilt or Moses Malone in their prime. Maybe Kareem.

 

[Mai72]

There aren't many good centers anymore.

I wonder why is that?

 

[PottedMeat]

wade boggs after ~40 beers

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Who would I pick as fourth in my depth chart behind Kareem, Russel and Wilt? Hakeem. Then Shaq, then Robinson. And I'd slot Mikan and Moses Malone in front of Ewing as well.

 

[SamQuint]

Kareem no question.

 

[darkewaffle]

More importantly... Space Jam 2 w/ Lebron is probably happening! Yay!

 

[Gibsons]

Of those, would be tempted to take Shaq, he could flat out overpower almost anyone. But I think I'd end up with the Dream. If nothing else, I just wouldn't want to suffer from Shaq's free throws.

 

[Blackjack200]

Who would I pick as fourth in my depth chart behind Kareem, Russel and Wilt? Hakeem. Then Shaq, then Robinson. And I'd slot Mikan and Moses Malone in front of Ewing as well.

Just curious, why does Ewing get so little respect? He never won anything, sure, but he also had some pretty terrible Knick teams around him, no?

 

[Pacfanweb]

Just curious, why does Ewing get so little respect? He never won anything, sure, but he also had some pretty terrible Knick teams around him, no?

All 4 of the centers listed in the title....if you brought them back today, in their prime, they'd be the top 4 centers in the game. And it wouldn't be close. People would be arguing about which one was the best center in the game today and no current center would even be in the discussion.

Of the 4....I'd go with Hakeem. Shaq could be dominant, but the free throw shooting has me go with Hakeem.

Ewing was awesome. His main problem was that he was in the same division as Michael Jordan.

 

[SP33Demon]

All 4 of the centers listed in the title....if you brought them back today, in their prime, they'd be the top 4 centers in the game. And it wouldn't be close. People would be arguing about which one was the best center in the game today and no current center would even be in the discussion.

Of the 4....I'd go with Hakeem. Shaq could be dominant, but the free throw shooting has me go with Hakeem.

Ewing was awesome. His main problem was that he was in the same division as Michael Jordan.

Lmao, Ewing in his prime wouldn't hold a candle to even Moses. Moses won 3 MVPs and led the NBA in rebounding 6 times and his team SWEPT Kareem's Lakers in the NBA Finals and then won Finals MVP. Ewing has never won an MVP, never won a scoring or rebounding title, never NBA Defensive first team (because he was too slow); basically Ewing has nothing to show for in his career except NBA First Team 1x which Moses did 4x, Hakeem 6, Shaq 8, Kareem 10x, etc. But NY Knicks all time scoring leader (lol)! In his era, he was a 2nd tier elite center and that wasn't just "because of Mike and the Bulls". It was because he was a slow, lumbering guy who could score at a good rate and occasionally block a shot. Hell, he never even finished in the top 3 in MVP voting, ever.

Even VORP (Value Over Replacement Player) metrics show that Ewing is beaten by his peers regarding total value vs other players in his era.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/vorp_career.html

VORP says the list should be:
*Hybrid PF/C
1) Tim Duncan*, 86.92
2) Kareem, 86.03
3) David Robinson, 80.88
4) Hakeem, 77.15
5) Shaq, 73.97
6) Dirk Nowitski*
6) Pau Gasol*
7) Ben Wallace*
8) Chris Webber*
9) Elton Brand*
10) Vlade Divac, 45.28
11) Horace Grant*
12) Moses Malone, 43.28
13) Jack Sikma, 42.00
14) Bob Lanier, 41.94 (should be much higher on this list since stats before 73 are missing)
15) Robert Parish, 41.47
16) Patrick Ewing, 40.93

So there were at least 8 other true centers more valuable than him via VORP, and that's not even including Wilt/Russell/Mikan due to certain stats missing from those eras. So he's most not even a top 10 center in history.

Basically it's Duncan and Kareem over everyone else because of the longevity of their success, yet Robinson-Hakeem-Shaq are close enough to argue in all other situations like skill in their prime or who-would-you-take-in-a-Finals-series-to-win. Ewing shouldn't even be in the conversation at all.

Regarding a best 3 year prime, let's look at VORP again.
1) Duncan - 2001-2004 - 21.6
2) Kareem - 74-77 - 27.2 (and in 1973 he posted a 9.4, so his prime was 4 years).
3) Robinson - 93-96 - 27.2
4) Hakeem - 92-95 - 21.3
5) Shaq - 99-02 - 21.6
6) Divac - 95-97 - 12.9
7) Moses - 80-83 - 14.1
8) Sikma - 81-84 - 12.6
9) Lanier - 73-76 - 20.5
10) Parish - 80-83 - 11.4
11) Ewing - 88-91 - 14.7

Ewing surprisingly had a good prime, but he didn't do shit in his final years from 96-02. 8 decent seasons doesn't make him a top 10 center when guys had careers that were much longer. Out of the advanced stats that are available, Kareem and David Robinson had incredible 3 yr primes relative to their peers of their era. Bob Lanier also had a crazy prime.

Ewing also wasn't the most efficient player, coming in at #44 all time PER behind players like Yao Ming, Dwight Howard, and Alonzo Mourning.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

 

[Naer]

LeBron james

 

[Pacfanweb]

Might want to look at WHO was on the Defensive 1st teams when Ewing played. He was on the 2nd team 3 times, btw. Not like he sucked. Comp. was a lot tougher than in Moses' prime.

It's not "if you didn't make all-NBA 1st team you must not have been good". 2nd team is still awesome, especially in the loaded late 80's and early 90's.
And when Ewing was in his prime, he usually was behind Robinson and/or Hakeem. Not like he was way down the list. He was right there with those two, who are also in the OP here.

And again, compared to TODAY's bigs, all 4 of these guys would be the top 4 big men in the NBA of today, if you plugged them into today's game in their primes. Now Ewing would be behind Robinson and Hakeem as he was in their day....but that's still ahead of any of today's big men.

 

[JMapleton]

Anyone else think of this when I read this thread?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnyWar8uOTI

If you're old enough.

 

[smackababy]

Might want to look at WHO was on the Defensive 1st teams when Ewing played. He was on the 2nd team 3 times, btw. Not like he sucked. Comp. was a lot tougher than in Moses' prime.

It's not "if you didn't make all-NBA 1st team you must not have been good". 2nd team is still awesome, especially in the loaded late 80's and early 90's.
And when Ewing was in his prime, he usually was behind Robinson and/or Hakeem. Not like he was way down the list. He was right there with those two, who are also in the OP here.

And again, compared to TODAY's bigs, all 4 of these guys would be the top 4 big men in the NBA of today, if you plugged them into today's game in their primes. Now Ewing would be behind Robinson and Hakeem as he was in their day....but that's still ahead of any of today's big men.

The problem is making 2nd and 3rd Defensive team when the direct competition in this thread is there means nothing. Hakeem, Robinson, and Shaq are all better centers.

 

[Childs]

Just curious, why does Ewing get so little respect? He never won anything, sure, but he also had some pretty terrible Knick teams around him, no?

Ewing had a lot of baggage because he came out of Georgetown at a time when most of America and the media hated John Thompson. Then you combine it with his looks and his speech. Kinda sad in a way, because he was a shy person and didnt have a lot of education, so he couldnt speak well in front of people. And that came off as standoff-ish. In general it seems like he still doesn't get any respect. He's put in a ton of time as an assistant coach, yet former players with no experience get opportunities as head coach while he just waits. I think that still comes down to his looks and speech...he just cant impress anyone in interviews.

He was a great player, but not top 5 all time. Ranking him 7-8 among all time centers is probably right, but thats still pretty good.

 

[Pacfanweb]

The problem is making 2nd and 3rd Defensive team when the direct competition in this thread is there means nothing. Hakeem, Robinson, and Shaq are all better centers.

Fine, then bring all 4 in their prime to today's game and Ewing would be the 4th best center in the league.

Or bring Ewing in his prime by himself and he'd be the best center in the league today.

I wasn't arguing Ewing was better than Robinson or the Dream, but he's better than any center today.

 

[SP33Demon]

Might want to look at WHO was on the Defensive 1st teams when Ewing played. He was on the 2nd team 3 times, btw. Not like he sucked. Comp. was a lot tougher than in Moses' prime.

It's not "if you didn't make all-NBA 1st team you must not have been good". 2nd team is still awesome, especially in the loaded late 80's and early 90's.
And when Ewing was in his prime, he usually was behind Robinson and/or Hakeem. Not like he was way down the list. He was right there with those two, who are also in the OP here.

And again, compared to TODAY's bigs, all 4 of these guys would be the top 4 big men in the NBA of today, if you plugged them into today's game in their primes. Now Ewing would be behind Robinson and Hakeem as he was in their day....but that's still ahead of any of today's big men.

VORP doesn't lie, and it says Ewing had a decent prime (barely better than Moses) but no way he's even near the primes of Kareem, Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq, or even Lanier. I'd also be willing to bet that Wilt and Russell would also score higher in their era's than Ewing if there were numbers.