Had our ducts cleaned, may have got scammed?

[Kelemvor]

The fan thing depends on your furnace. If you have a Variable Speed fan, then you should leave it on all the time. It runs at a slower speed when the furnace isn't pumping but it keeps air circulating through the house and through filter. These generally are more efficient and are made to run all the time.

If you just have a single speed, then you can still do that but it uses more enrgy as the fan runs full speed all the time and may not be worth it.

 

[Rubycon]

The fan thing depends on your furnace. If you have a Variable Speed fan, then you should leave it on all the time. It runs at a slower speed when the furnace isn't pumping but it keeps air circulating through the house and through filter. These generally are more efficient and are made to run all the time.

If you just have a single speed, then you can still do that but it uses more enrgy as the fan runs full speed all the time and may not be worth it.

Yes too many variables (no pun intended!) here for a hard on/off rule.

Larger air handlers may have a 1hp blower and you won't want that running continuously!

Variable speed driven fans should be run as the manufacturer recommends. They will have a controller allowing proper pre/post burn cycles for maximum comfort and efficiency which should always be followed UNLESS you have a specific need.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Idealy the most efficient way would probably to have the blower run for 1-2 hours after a cycle, if it is commanded to cycle again within this period then it would do so and just reset so after that cycle it would run for an hour again. When it's very cold it would probably be running the fan more, but probably the burner way less. Wonder if they make thermostats that let you set this. Would need to be a 3 wire system though. With 2 wires you cannot control just the blower.

When the furnace stops and you put your hand near a vent you can still feel heat. This is all heat in the vents that could be in your room instead. It does end up radiating through the floors so guess it comes up to the same.

 

[Rubycon]

Idealy the most efficient way would probably to have the blower run for 1-2 hours after a cycle, if it is commanded to cycle again within this period then it would do so and just reset so after that cycle it would run for an hour again. When it's very cold it would probably be running the fan more, but probably the burner way less. Wonder if they make thermostats that let you set this. Would need to be a 3 wire system though. With 2 wires you cannot control just the blower.

When the furnace stops and you put your hand near a vent you can still feel heat. This is all heat in the vents that could be in your room instead. It does end up radiating through the floors so guess it comes up to the same.

Humans by nature don't appreciate cold or cooler air blowing out the supply diffusers. This is why heat pumps are not particularly popular despite the efficiency.

 

[edro]

How old is your house?
Is your blower motor multiple speed?
What type of control does your furnace have?
What part of the country are you in?

I have a really old house and a single speed motor, so I leave mine on auto.
If the fan runs without the burners on, the house feels colder because of the air movement.
In the summer, you could switch to Always ON for more comfort.

 

[Sea Moose]

might have a mouse in your air conditioner....

 

[SunnyD]

Hahaha... there was a "testing for mold" scam report on the local 10 O'Clock news on TV a few weeks back. They had one of the service employees (identity hidden of course) state that they used test kits that always came back positive.

 

[Phoenix86]

don't get vent duct advice from vent cleaning guys

When I ask my barber if I need a hair cut, he always says "sure, we can take a little off the top, trim up the sides...".
:hmm:

 

[Aharami]

Roll mats with differential tubes piped to a Magnehelic gauge. At three quarters inch differential YOU or a controller turns on the takeup motor that advances the media. Polyester media may be adhesive treated for advanced particulate capture, etc.

😱

:hmm:

😕
:\

 

[Sea Moose]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubycon View Post
Roll mats with differential tubes piped to a Magnehelic gauge. At three quarters inch differential YOU or a controller turns on the takeup motor that advances the media. Polyester media may be adhesive treated for advanced particulate capture, etc.

😱

:hmm:

😕
:\

Rubycon is talking about an old method of hvac air filtration that basicall was like a large roll of material that slowly wound its way onto another roll.

Imagine you had a paper roll and then an empty cardboard. the paper towel rolls from the full roll to the empty roll. Air passes through the paper towel (filter medium)

Thats the best i can explain it. Get rubycon to explain it, she is better than me at explaining stuff.

 

[Rubycon]

Rubycon is talking about an old method of hvac air filtration that basicall was like a large roll of material that slowly wound its way onto another roll.

Imagine you had a paper roll and then an empty cardboard. the paper towel rolls from the full roll to the empty roll. Air passes through the paper towel (filter medium)

Thats the best i can explain it. Get rubycon to explain it, she is better than me at explaining stuff.

That's close enough. I don't consider it an old method though. It's a proven method! When you use the former terminology it makes me feel old. I guess I am compared to most of you young chaps! 😛

That said Magnehelic gauges are awesome! I want to build a heatpipe cooler whose upper ends are terminated to a manifold connected to a Magnehelic gauge so I can read CPU temp/load - mechanically! :awe:

 

[Sea Moose]

Rubycon, i got it mixed up. Mitsubishi heavy industries use their own make of compressors and daikin use copeland scrolls.


This is why i hate window air conditioners. This is the air off side of the condenser coil

And here is the air on side. They design them so its impossible to clean them!

 

[Rubycon]

LOL at the evaporator! Looks like a victim of using the coil as a filter.

 

[Sea Moose]

LOL at the evaporator! Looks like a victim of using the coil as a filter.

no, thats the condensor coil. THe two pics are of the same coil. Looking at the air off side and air on sides of the same coil

its impossible to clean the condenser coil without destroying the unit. This is why i would never install a window unit for someone. High wall splits are the win.

 

[Rubycon]

no, thats the condensor coil. THe two pics are of the same coil. Looking at the air off side and air on sides of the same coil

its impossible to clean the condenser coil without destroying the unit. This is why i would never install a window unit for someone. High wall splits are the win.

Where in the hell was that used that made the condenser that dirty?

I've heard of window shakers used inside warehouses to keep supervisor offices cool and since the condenser has no filter it gets caked like that with greasy dust.

Lemme guess they were complaining of lack of cooling because the compressor was cycling due to high head pressure?

 

[Red Squirrel]

Oh wow that looks nasty! You'd think the window units would still have a filter, guess it's too much static pressure for the cheap fan.

 

[BUTCH1]

no, thats the condensor coil. THe two pics are of the same coil. Looking at the air off side and air on sides of the same coil

its impossible to clean the condenser coil without destroying the unit. This is why i would never install a window unit for someone. High wall splits are the win.

Wow, that's nasty! did this unit have a filter that the owners removed and never replaced?. I've been using filtrete product from 3M and it seems to do a decent job..

 

[Rubycon]

Oh wow that looks nasty! You'd think the window units would still have a filter, guess it's too much static pressure for the cheap fan.

Outdoor units don't have filters but do need occasional cleanings. Foaming coil cleaner MAY actually have worked on the one posted above. That stuff is ridiculously strong.

The hardest coils to clean are the ones that look like pipe cleaners. GE/Trane uses those.

 

[BUTCH1]

Outdoor units don't have filters but do need occasional cleanings. Foaming coil cleaner MAY actually have worked on the one posted above. That stuff is ridiculously strong.

The hardest coils to clean are the ones that look like pipe cleaners. GE/Trane uses those.

Yea, our condenser at work is on of those Trane's, it always wondered how you could clean that type of design, I've never seen the Co. that does our equipment actually clean it. I guess the idea is that all that thin metal = more surface area to dissipate heat through.

 

[Hubes]

those coil are garbage.

Hey sea moose are you a sales rep for daikin? The company I work for Reps Daikin McQuay. The Ductless Splits are nice, but nothing compares to the VRV 3. A lot of peole bash them but the main reason is because of poor installation on there end.

 

[mmntech]

They had an article in the paper about a month ago on duct cleaning. It's pretty much pointless as it does nothing to improve air flow or indoor air quality. Despite all that, it still doesn't stop the Indian fellow claiming to be Steve or Paul from calling me every week. 😛

The best investment is to buy a HEPA air filter system for your furnace. It traps most of the larger particles and supposedly works better than the active electronic filters.

 

[Rubycon]

those coil are garbage.

Hey sea moose are you a sales rep for daikin? The company I work for Reps Daikin McQuay. The Ductless Splits are nice, but nothing compares to the VRV 3. A lot of peole bash them but the main reason is because of poor installation on there end.

That's the chief cause of many installation failures. Lots of incompetent or just lazy installers out there.

 

[Sea Moose]

those coil are garbage.

Hey sea moose are you a sales rep for daikin? The company I work for Reps Daikin McQuay. The Ductless Splits are nice, but nothing compares to the VRV 3. A lot of peole bash them but the main reason is because of poor installation on there end.

Stay away from mcquay gear, daikin bought them out recently for some reason. mcquay is absolute shit.

Daikin is top of the line in terms of quality, but as you pointed out you need a good installer to put it in.

I used to work for a daikin dealer. I was their breakdown tech. I work for myself now.

 

[Rubycon]

Getting back to the concern of the OP...

I believe duct cleaning has its merits however there seems to be an emphasis on scamming homeowners with un necessary and ineffective "professional" services.

In commercial areas ducts may need to be cleaned. Most homes should not have much dust build up as a commercial setting with a high changeover of people.

The crooks will show pics of systems used in a non residential setting as a scare tactic to get people to pay for these services. How many of these companies will use CCTV technology (very similar to a plumber's see snake, for example) to determine the condition and show it to the consumer?

 

[Red Squirrel]

Getting back to the concern of the OP...

I believe duct cleaning has its merits however there seems to be an emphasis on scamming homeowners with un necessary and ineffective "professional" services.

In commercial areas ducts may need to be cleaned. Most homes should not have much dust build up as a commercial setting with a high changeover of people.

The crooks will show pics of systems used in a non residential setting as a scare tactic to get people to pay for these services. How many of these companies will use CCTV technology (very similar to a plumber's see snake, for example) to determine the condition and show it to the consumer?

I've thought of rigging my own snake to check out my own ducts actually. 😀 A fish line with a USB camera and light would probably work. Just need to mount it very solidly as it's going to get bounced around a lot.

My ducts are pretty bad, but it would be fun to see just HOW bad before I decide if it's worth to get a guy out or not. I know a plumber / HVAC guy so don't think he'd try to rip me like the OP got ripped.

One way to check straight run ducts is using a mirror and flashlight. Think the best bet before anyone gets their ducts cleaned is to try to inspect them to see if it's really that bad.

The blower looks like a PITA to clean though. 😱 Also have to be careful not to force dust right in the motor assembly if it's a direct drive one.