Had an Interesting Conversation With my Manager Today (performance evaluation)

[glenn1]

Not a fan by any means, but he has done and continues to do well for himself.



If you ahem... re read my post. (I know what you're trying to do). Being an asshole to someone isn't my first, or even my second choice of action when dealing with adversity. But you can't be a pushover and you do need to stand your ground. I've dealt with lots of different kinds of people and this strategy is something that I had to learn through years of trial and error and things have only gotten better for me since I figured this out. So if infact my manager was subtly criticizing me for the way I handled a few people (which he may or may not have heard about) then so be it. The only thing that I would have done differently is put them in their place sooner so as to spare myself from their crap.

Standing your ground and not insulting your coworkers aren't mutually exclusive propositions.

 

[DrDoug]

Did you know that everyone on the internet is literally an expert on everything? True story

Lol, I really don't act in public like I do online. Infact I tend to think of my online persona as a 'release' so I won't act like an asshole in public.
Generally speaking though I do get along with my co-workers very well. I do however have to contend with some jealous individuals and their antics. I can let most things slide but I do have limits. And have I been a dick to them? Yes. The thing is that I have found that there are certain people who literally won't get the picture any other way. Any attempt to be the nice guy on your part will only be interpreted as a sign of submission which only guarantees that the drama will continue or escalate. I personally don't like drama in the workplace and I'll do whatever I need to do to avoid it. And although being an asshole shouldn't be the first course of action, it is at times the only way to put an end to it.

One thing that I have noticed is that assholes do tend to get ahead in the workplace and when I was younger I used to wonder if success turns regular people into assholes. Now I wonder if being an asshole is what makes people successful.

Being an asshole can make people successful but it can also massively fail if the asshole goes asshole at the wrong time. I find that skills take you further yet you have to be on the lookout for (and be ready to deal with) the assholes that want to take you down because you are the new kid on the block with skills that they view as threatening to their own careers at the company (been there, done that).

The way I would look at this would be it's clear to me that a message was probably being delivered. Now how was the delivery? If it was kind and sincere then they may be trying to work with you because they see you as a good fit with just a bit of tweaking. If it was cold and direct you can figure that your days are probably numbered.

What were the messages being delivered? Being perceived as losing focus, coming across as a know-it-all and poor communication skills. Ouch. At this point you have to evaluate what is being said, ask yourself the obvious questions and be real enough to admit if there is a chance that you could have a problem or two that needs working on. There is also the possibility that one or more persons are feeding these perceptions (the assholes who were already there and get ahead at their jobs by being assholes) to your boss. If you work directly with your manager then it's their own perception and you have a problem you need to deal with right away.

One thing that could be done in the short term is to work to improve where you were told to improve while not being obvious about it. At the same time I would be paying attention to everything around me to see if there is more going on than I was aware of. Workplace gossip is easy to get if you befriend the right people. I have used that to find out the real scoops at work and at one job I was able to head off an asshole who was gunning for me via backstabbing me to his buddies in management. I was able to deal with it all below board and cut him off every time without him knowing what I had done to foil him. On top of that I designed a new electrical system (marine) for the next years yacht on my own time and my designs were deemed superior to his. In the end he lost his temper and challenged me to a fight (which I accepted but only after work!).

He quit, I got the promotion and I finished new designs for the rest of their models. For some reason he decided not to fight. :biggrin:

 

[88keys]

When it comes to business relations it is not the same as outside business relations. Within business, especially if you have the same level of status as others, it is a matter of "cooperating". Some people may not like the concept of cooperating, but a boss has to deal with everybody, whether they are frivolous or excellent, and still make the business move forward in a productive manner. So, if an employee is insensitive or doesn't like putting up w/ bs or fools, it nonetheless impacts the entire group and therefor involves the boss, who above all wants -- and has a duty to ensure that -- the business moves forward in a productive manner. That can't happen if someone feels disrespected, even if they deserved it. Disrespecting others is perceived as an act of arrogance, and in fact it is arrogance.

I'm generally pretty easy going and I can work well with most people even though I'll admit that I feel that I do best when I work alone or with someone who has a similar work ethic (I don't like wait on other people too much). In any case I will accommodate people as best I can and If I overlook alot of things so long as I see effort and interest coming from the person that I'm working with. However, I to this day still find unmotivated, lazy people impossible to get along with. The kind of person who doesn't even care enough to perform a simple task correctly just brings my blood to a boil and I have almost no tolerance for it. I avoid these people at every opportunity. Generally speaking, I don't have alot of people like that do deal with so that really isn't an issue. But....
I work in quality assurance and I'm moving into engineering. These facts along with the fact that I'm new to the company is essentially the cause of the drama that I have to put up with. As quality assurance, I need to make sure that others are doing their job correctly and that what they are making is dimensionally in spec according to the customer's blueprint. When bad product is made, I need to report it to the management team. This means that I will inevitably step on some toes. Knowing this I make sure that I have all of my facts before I start filling out the paperwork and I address each situation as professionally as possible. I don't place blame, I don't call names, I won't even criticize. I report the facts like a journalist would and if there are external factors that may have caused the non conformance I will point them out and let management make their call.
The other factor is that I'm new and moving up fairly quickly which has people jealous of me and most of the time I just pretend not to notice. Despite all of these efforts, I still have had to put up with crap from more than a few people and so far I've dealt with all of them without having to go to upper management (which is the worst mistake anybody can make at a new job) and there was only one case when I got low level management involved. I also might have said a few things that I'm not proud of, but most of that crap is behind me now so in that sense I feel that I dealt with my situation the best anyone could have.

Standing your ground and not insulting your coworkers aren't mutually exclusive propositions.

Okay.

 

[JEDIYoda]

That's corporate speak. Translated, it says the OP is good at his job but a dick to his coworkers. The suggestion that he go take a look at some emotional intelligence books AND claims that the manager did not describe his behavior at all is further evidence that the OP is such an arrogant dick he doesn't even know he's being an arrogant dick.

<-----this!!

 

[postmortemIA]

If you want to avoid such conversations in the future (and what they lead to), you have to work well with all kinds of people, not just most...

 

[JEDIYoda]

Here are the books he suggested.

Emotional Intelligence 2.0

Seven Habits of Highly Effective People

so basically you are ineffective at your job!!

 

[88keys]

Being an asshole can make people successful but it can also massively fail if the asshole goes asshole at the wrong time. I find that skills take you further yet you have to be on the lookout for (and be ready to deal with) the assholes that want to take you down because you are the new kid on the block with skills that they view as threatening to their own careers at the company (been there, done that).

I agree 100%. There was a place that I worked for 10 years ago doing what I do now but on a lower level. The company was going through some tough times and corporate hired a guy to do some 'house cleaning'. Well he was one of the biggest assholes I have ever seen and some of his tactics for dealing with people were shady as hell. But in the end, he did turn things around and got shit done.

The way I would look at this would be it's clear to me that a message was probably being delivered. Now how was the delivery? If it was kind and sincere then they may be trying to work with you because they see you as a good fit with just a bit of tweaking. If it was cold and direct you can figure that your days are probably numbered.

I honestly don't know. I really haven't worked with these people that much to really gage their personalities, habits, etc. to know. The conversation was very sporadic in nature and didn't seem to follow any progression. Instead, he kept going back to 'emotional intelligence'. Maybe it was the impromptu nature of the conversation that threw me off.

What were the messages being delivered? Being perceived as losing focus, coming across as a know-it-all and poor communication skills. Ouch. At this point you have to evaluate what is being said, ask yourself the obvious questions and be real enough to admit if there is a chance that you could have a problem or two that needs working on. There is also the possibility that one or more persons are feeding these perceptions (the assholes who were already there and get ahead at their jobs by being assholes) to your boss. If you work directly with your manager then it's their own perception and you have a problem you need to deal with right away.

Many have complimented me on my communication skills, but I suppose that given the nature some of the rocky relations that I've had in the beginning, that there is a good possibility that word of that made it to upper management (His actual job title is Director of Quality Assurance).

One thing that could be done in the short term is to work to improve where you were told to improve while not being obvious about it. At the same time I would be paying attention to everything around me to see if there is more going on than I was aware of. Workplace gossip is easy to get if you befriend the right people.

Things have gotten better for within the last months, but I am just starting to take notice to the fact that there is some drama within my own department between certain people. I honestly don't know any details and I hope to keep it that way. But I have noticed that mentioning certain names around certain people does invoke a 'reaction'. I don't have any issues with anyone within the dept so I don't know where I fit into whatever is going on but hopefully I can stay out of it. My dept is made up of about 50% women so... yeah.

I have used that to find out the real scoops at work and at one job I was able to head off an asshole who was gunning for me via backstabbing me to his buddies in management. I was able to deal with it all below board and cut him off every time without him knowing what I had done to foil him. On top of that I designed a new electrical system (marine) for the next years yacht on my own time and my designs were deemed superior to his. In the end he lost his temper and challenged me to a fight (which I accepted but only after work!).

He quit, I got the promotion and I finished new designs for the rest of their models. For some reason he decided not to fight. :biggrin:

I've worked in place like that and so far what I've had to deal with I think pales in comparison to what I've seen at other places. I've seen what can happen to people who let themselves get pushed around or find themselves on the wrong side of the clique. And you do need the right set of skills and street smarts to make it above all that crap.

 

[88keys]

If you want to avoid such conversations in the future (and what they lead to), you have to work well with all kinds of people, not just most...

I do the best I can.

 

[88keys]

If you want to avoid such conversations in the future (and what they lead to), you have to work well with all kinds of people, not just most...

And what they lead to?

 

[DrDoug]

I agree 100%. There was a place that I worked for 10 years ago doing what I do now but on a lower level. The company was going through some tough times and corporate hired a guy to do some 'house cleaning'. Well he was one of the biggest assholes I have ever seen and some of his tactics for dealing with people were shady as hell. But in the end, he did turn things around and got shit done.

I honestly don't know. I really haven't worked with these people that much to really gage their personalities, habits, etc. to know. The conversation was very sporadic in nature and didn't seem to follow any progression. Instead, he kept going back to 'emotional intelligence'. Maybe it was the impromptu nature of the conversation that threw me off.

Many have complimented me on my communication skills, but I suppose that given the nature some of the rocky relations that I've had in the beginning, that there is a good possibility that word of that made it to upper management (His actual job title is Director of Quality Assurance).

Things have gotten better for within the last months, but I am just starting to take notice to the fact that there is some drama within my own department between certain people. I honestly don't know any details and I hope to keep it that way. But I have noticed that mentioning certain names around certain people does invoke a 'reaction'. I don't have any issues with anyone within the dept so I don't know where I fit into whatever is going on but hopefully I can stay out of it. My dept is made up of about 50% women so... yeah.




I've worked in place like that and so far what I've had to deal with I think pales in comparison to what I've seen at other places. I've seen what can happen to people who let themselves get pushed around or find themselves on the wrong side of the clique. And you do need the right set of skills and street smarts to make it above all that crap.

First bolded: Red alert there. While you may believe that you have smoothed things out that may not be the case and those involved are being polite while quietly waiting for a way to 'work the shiv in' your back. Be very alert to any signals from those you had problems with because that will be your first clue of who is a problem.

Second bolded: Ignore what goes on at your own risk. Ignorance is not bliss, especially when it involves knowledge of those you interact with who could affect your job/career. Every single workplace has 'politics' or as I like to call them, mini soap operas going on. I keep my ears open and don't contribute a thing to the gossip because I want to know the background that I am really working in. Getting information out of gossips is easy because they like to gossip, just listen, make neutral noises in response and don't contribute to it. I call this info 'potential ammo', something you might need to handle a situation correctly (as I did in the case I noted in my first post). Starting work there means you walked into a variety of mini soap operas and working your way through them without becoming a part of a story line is difficult. Keep your nose to your work, be polite and cooperate with everyone. Let the drama unfold around you and be the viewer in their soap operas, not an actor. If you're there long enough you'll have your own soap opera to deal with...lol! Collect and learn from information because one day you may be able to use it to protect your own ass if someone is gunning for you.

I wish working was just going and doing your job but that's not the way it works.

 

[master_shake_]

What ever happened to going to work putting in your 9 hours doing your job and going home?
Why do you need semi annual biannual or annual performance reviews anyway if you're not doing your job correct don't You get fired?

 

[bradly1101]

To me it sounds like he's trying to groom you for something bigger.

 

[postmortemIA]

And what they lead to?

all depends from manager to manager, employer to employer. Probably more explicit warnings. Action plan. Written warning.

 

[Drako]

To me it sounds like he's trying to groom you for something bigger.

Yep, exactly what I was thinking too. OP too dense to see that or ...

 

[JEDIYoda]

OP`s next thread title -- How I Lost my Job!! Hell I did not see that coming and with no warning!!

 

[pcgeek11]

Generally speaking though I do get along with my co-workers very well. I do however have to contend with some jealous individuals and their antics. I can let most things slide but I do have limits. And have I been a dick to them? Yes. The thing is that I have found that there are certain people who literally won't get the picture any other way. Any attempt to be the nice guy on your part will only be interpreted as a sign of submission which only guarantees that the drama will continue or escalate. I personally don't like drama in the workplace and I'll do whatever I need to do to avoid it. And although being an asshole shouldn't be the first course of action, it is at times the only way to put an end to it.

And now for the rest of the story.

LOL

 

[bononos]

What ever happened to going to work putting in your 9 hours doing your job and going home?
Why do you need semi annual biannual or annual performance reviews anyway if you're not doing your job correct don't You get fired?

Theres more formal procedures in a corporate environment.

 

[DrDoug]

And now for the rest of the story.

LOL

Yup. This attitude will get you killed at your new job. You're the new kid on the block and you have to expect a rash of shit from the established 'experts'. You are going to be pushed by egos and fed bullshit. You can fight back if you wish to but it's invariably a losing battle. Let others be the asshole and bite your tongue. Build you own 'brand' and don't get baited into an unnecessary fight. Wait for an opportunity to fire back in a way where you don't damage yourself.

Let them be assholes, don't be the asshole.

 

[PowerEngineer]

What ever happened to going to work putting in your 9 hours doing your job and going home?
Why do you need semi annual biannual or annual performance reviews anyway if you're not doing your job correct don't You get fired?

FWIW, the OP mentioned that this was his six-month review at a new company. Six months is generally the probationary period at the end of which an employer can usually terminate you without a lot of drama. Most well run companies therefore require a performance review at the end of the probationary period to make sure a keep or let go decision gets made.

Likewise, most well run companies require formal performance reviews at least annually to provide a basis for pay changes, promotions, and disciplinary actions. Having annual reviews does not mean that good managers wait to give feedback until the day of the review; good managers give enough regular feedback that there should be no real surprises in the annual reviews.

For the OP, the challenge for any leader is to get the most out of the team he/she has to work with. It's inevitable that some members of the team will be "poorer" in a number of ways than the others. You may feel good about standing up for yourself, but your manager may see it as counterproductive if you do it in a way that adversely affects overall team effectiveness. It's always a good idea to try to see things from your manager's viewpoint and then shape your actions accordingly. I would definitely follow up on what was suggested to you and make sure he/she knew it.

 

[NesuD]

Translation: You are very good at your job but there are people here that give stupid a bad name and feel threatened by you. Please dumb it down. It is more important that they don't get their feelings hurt than become better employees.

I see this all the time at my workplace. I have a director literally tell me that his people are so dumb I have to handle them like 1st graders. Then there are complaints that I make them feel stupid when I talk to them. Ex: I get an off hours call from one of our stores saying they are getting a comms line down error on the CC processors. I get on my remote console and i see they have been offline for more than an hour. I call the ISP and they say there are no reported outages in the area but our location is unreachable for some reason. I go onsite and find the entire comms room has no power. I check the breaker panel and find someone turned the breaker off that morning. The opening manager insisted that they did not do that when it was painfully obvious that they did as it was right next to one she had to turn on. I can visualize exactly exactly how it was so obvious. But in this world rather than help her understand what happened and how she can avoid it in the future i had to agree it wasn't her fault or she might have felt stupid. I hate having to pretend I am an idiot so a real idiots feelings don't get hurt.

 

[dank69]

Sounds like you're a prima donna and don't realize it.

 

[Kaido]

I hate having to pretend I am an idiot so a real idiots feelings don't get hurt.

QFP :thumbsup:

 

[bradly1101]

I would get that reading material ASAP and occasionally discuss what you have learned.

 

[88keys]

And now for the rest of the story.

LOL

It's a TL;DR world so I don't get into to many details right off the bat.
In any case, I think most people make assumptions about a headline or title, then just skim through the post and pick out the things they want and ignore the rest anyway.

To me it sounds like he's trying to groom you for something bigger.

Yep, exactly what I was thinking too. OP too dense to see that or ...

Maybe, but most here seem think I have one foot out the door.

Either way that could be the case. I've mentioned to a few that I know and apparently those books are well known in corporate management circles.
The only thing is that I've never really had a leadership position in any official sense and I've never been interested. Generally speaking I prefer to mind my own business as much as possible and some of my best jobs were ones where I had little to no interactions with people and I'd always be happy regardless of the workload.

I remember being asked whether I was interested in management during my interview and again during my orientation. The thing is that they started me at a significantly higher wage than my peers for some reason...
If that is the case, I really don't know how I feel about that. I'd wonder why they would see management material in me because I don't think that of myself.

Yup. This attitude will get you killed at your new job. You're the new kid on the block and you have to expect a rash of shit from the established 'experts'. You are going to be pushed by egos and fed bullshit. You can fight back if you wish to but it's invariably a losing battle. Let others be the asshole and bite your tongue. Build you own 'brand' and don't get baited into an unnecessary fight. Wait for an opportunity to fire back in a way where you don't damage yourself.

Let them be assholes, don't be the asshole.

I've been there before, these incidences so far have involved people who already have negative reputations attached to them and you have to know that there's a reason for that. People like this have lousy attitudes, no motivation and are jealous of everyone as they wonder why they never get anywhere in life. People like this often have very little going on in their own life so they fill that void by trying to get under other another person's skin somehow or someway. These are the kinds of people who need to be promptly be put in their place. In particular there is this one guy I'll refer to as "Bob". Bob runs a press brake and when he sets up a new job I need to sign off on it and verify it's spec according to a blue print. Sometimes we would have disagreements over what a certain dimension is or is not supposed to be. And everytime it was the same story; blah blah blah I'm right you're wrong. Bob throws a fit, Bob calls me all sorts of names, Bob gets his supervisor, his supervisor gets engineering, engineering says I'm right, Bob fixes it, I sign the okay to run.

After going through that a few times, I was getting irritated so stopped trying to explain to him why he was wrong and just told him flat out what the dimensions and tolerances are supposed to be and that I'll sign the OK when he gets a good part and walk away.

And then one day Bob made a lot of bad parts because he decided to get his supervisor to sign the okay instead of me and engineering was conveniently unavailable. The following Monday there was a meeting between myself, Bob, Bob's supervisor and the Coordinator (somewhere between a supervisor and manager). He asks Bob why he didn't me to check his part. He just flat says that I'm an asshole and I won't explain anything to him. Then he asks what I had to say. I explained the situation and that we had been through several other disagreements that would get blown way out pf proportion so I decided that I was just going to state the facts that he needs to know and let him decide what to with it because more important things to do than explain things to people who won't listen.


That was my worst incident which was a few months ago. Since then I haven't heard anything from anyone about it and there have been no other altercations between myself and Bob.
Sure, there may have been other ways to handle that but can assure you signing hakumbaya by the campfire is nowhere on that list. I've dealt with worse people and my I feel that the best bet in these situations is resolve the problem as quickly as possible even if it means you to suffer a slight consequence on your part. Getting management to step in and solve your problems is often a mistake. People like Bob have been that way for a long long time and I know not the first person of whom he's had a problem with. So if management has done nothing about it for the 10 or so years he's been here before me, I have no reason to think they'll do some thing different this time.

The only thing is that I might be a bit faster to resort to the actions than I used to be. My last job was virtually drama free. It was a small company and everyone got a long. I was happy with everything except for the lack of opportunity. Going back to work for a big company, I knew that I'd have to deal with the politics and the assholes and my tolerance for drama at this point is at an all time low so I don't feel like playing games with those people period. All things considered, things are going well for me but I think back to the drama free workplace I enjoyed and sometimes I wonder if you can assign a dollar value to that.

 

[88keys]

I was notified via email from HR that Friday is his last day.

So yeah one of us got shit canned.

I had a feeling that it was coming. They just hired a new VP and he's rocking the boat pretty hard from what I hear. Then last week he starts assigning us to do all of these studies that were found to be pointless.