Hackintosh worth it these days?

[Eug]

Yeah, then $270 sounds about right, esp. if it had say 2 GB RAM and a slow platter drive.

It's crazy, but you can even sometimes get $100 for a G4 iBook with 1.25 GB RAM and in good condition, despite the fact that computer is nearly unusable even just for surfing in 2013.

 

[Tegeril]

It was $270. The battery was dead. Would say Okay condition.

Thing was a heap of junk. Sent in three times. Have moved away from Apple because of it.

That's unfortunate as the current machines are quite fantastic and...all computer manufacturers have issues, Apple absolutely included. =\

 

[el-Capitan]

That's unfortunate as the current machines are quite fantastic and...all computer manufacturers have issues, Apple absolutely included. =\

Yeah, I know. I did get my wife an MBA. Beautiful and no probs so far.

But it showed me that not all is better with Apple. It's all the same, just the wrapper is nicer 🙂

 

[Eug]

I'm not overly impressed with the build quality of the old plastic MacBooks. They were better IMO than the cheapest Acers, but definitely not even close to top tier. However, the MacBook Pros seem quite nice.

The Airs have a nice sturdy shell, but the screens aren't the greatest. Plus the initial 11" Airs seemed to have a weak hinge, but I think that was corrected a long time ago.

 

[sxr7171]

While I've not tried all laptops out there, I have never found a non-Apple trackpad that feels like the Apple trackpad. In fact, 9 times out of 10, it's not even close.

Indeed, for that reason, if I were forced to do a hackintosh, the only one that would make the least bit of sense to me would NOT be a laptop.

As for desktops, the other issue that people have failed to mention is the fact that hackintoshes are not worth much on the used market. Sure, while the up front cost of hackintoshes can be cheaper (assuming your time is worth nothing), when it comes time to actually sell the thing, you can actually get decent money for a used Mac. For consumer Macs, that difference in used sales price will make up for the difference in up front cost. The going rate for my current i7 27" iMac is still over $1000 on the used market, and the thing is 3 years old.

Mac resale is great. Which is why I feel you might pay a fair "Apple premium" but you get it all back when you sell.

My assumption was that the touchpad's secret sauce was in Mac OS X. But I think you're right there must some hardware involved.

I would give a left arm to get this Win 8 compatible multi touch touchpad to feel like a Macbook's touchpad. I even tried the Logitech Bluetooth Touchpad and it's no magic Trackpad. Not even close despite what reviewers say.

I would happily pay up to $100 for a program that can make this touchpad feel like a Macbook touchpad.

As for the Air, I loved it and been using it for 3 years with annual upgrades thanks to the great resale you mentioned. But right now it's old. That design worked then but now in a world with Vaio Pro, NEC Lavie, and Samsung 9 I couldn't buy another one.

The aluminum case and huge bezel are really outdated. The weights of both the 11" and 13" are also out of range for 2013 ultrabooks.

But I suffer with this horrid touchpad. And since Thinkpads have also not kept up I don't get a Trackpoint either. My 2 favorite laptop makers have been eclipsed in everything but cursor control.

 

[sxr7171]

Yeah, I know. I did get my wife an MBA. Beautiful and no probs so far.

But it showed me that not all is better with Apple. It's all the same, just the wrapper is nicer 🙂

I agree its all the same for the most part but the quality of service is key. With a laptop the odds of it needing service during its life is pretty high. Especially during the HDD era. Every single one needed some work at some point. Thankfully they were thinkpads and excellent IBM service (I believe IBM still handles US service for Lenovo for those machines - the call goes to Atlanta, GA). Turn around is 3-4 days max even with the lowest service level and including the prepaid padded mailer. They even replace any plastic parts and fix cosmetic damage free of charge.

I consider that level of service one rung above Apple. However Apple service is right there. You will have your problem addressed. But it is more of a hassle with going to store and dealing with smug "geniuses" and standing in line etc. I haven't tried their phone support so it might actually be as good as with Thinkpads but I somehow doubt it.

So with every other maker (Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony etc) you HAVE to upgrade your warranty and service plan to get any reasonable service out of them. So you must add that cost to that of the product. I would never buy a Sony without the accidental damage plan for example. They are easily prone to damage and issues.

With Apple it's not that bad but it's not Thinkpad good either. All my Macs have not had additional protection or warranty on them and thankfully it's worked out for me. But I do have one that has a messed up keyboard issue and I have not yet been to the genius bar to deal with it. The bar for Mac appointments closes early as opposed to iOS bar which stays open until close. So I'd have to leave work early and deal with traffic and rush there.

 

[vailr]

My assumption was that the touchpad's secret sauce was in Mac OS X. But I think you're right there must some hardware involved.

What brand of driver shows up for the touchpad in Device Manager when running Windows on a MacBook via Bootcamp? & how similar does the touchpad function under Windows, as compared to OSX?

 

[dclive]

I agree its all the same for the most part but the quality of service is key. With a laptop the odds of it needing service during its life is pretty high. Especially during the HDD era. Every single one needed some work at some point. Thankfully they were thinkpads and excellent IBM service (I believe IBM still handles US service for Lenovo for those machines - the call goes to Atlanta, GA). Turn around is 3-4 days max even with the lowest service level and including the prepaid padded mailer. They even replace any plastic parts and fix cosmetic damage free of charge.

I consider that level of service one rung above Apple. However Apple service is right there. You will have your problem addressed. But it is more of a hassle with going to store and dealing with smug "geniuses" and standing in line etc. I haven't tried their phone support so it might actually be as good as with Thinkpads but I somehow doubt it.

So with every other maker (Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony etc) you HAVE to upgrade your warranty and service plan to get any reasonable service out of them. So you must add that cost to that of the product. I would never buy a Sony without the accidental damage plan for example. They are easily prone to damage and issues.

With Apple it's not that bad but it's not Thinkpad good either. All my Macs have not had additional protection or warranty on them and thankfully it's worked out for me. But I do have one that has a messed up keyboard issue and I have not yet been to the genius bar to deal with it. The bar for Mac appointments closes early as opposed to iOS bar which stays open until close. So I'd have to leave work early and deal with traffic and rush there.

Just a dumb question here - if you've never tried Apple's phone service, why and how can you rate it a rung below IBM's phone service?

How is IBM's carry-in service? Do you rate that ten rungs under Apple's carry-in service?

/boggle....

 

[sxr7171]

Just a dumb question here - if you've never tried Apple's phone service, why and how can you rate it a rung below IBM's phone service?

How is IBM's carry-in service? Do you rate that ten rungs under Apple's carry-in service?

/boggle....

I've called them before and they do put in touch with a human being pretty quickly and the person you speak to seems to be US based and knowledgeable enough.

As for their mail-in repairs I've heard anything from 3 days to 2 weeks for repairs. With Thinkpads it's always 3-4 days including having a mailer overnight-ed to you. With Apple you need to purchase Applecare to get that kind of service.

As for retail, that's a great option that works for many. But for someone whose working hours coincide with their genius bar Mac service hours mail-in service is just better.

Apple Stores are not really that common and everywhere. They are in specific high end urban locations only. I found that Lenovo has 17 local warranty service partners in a 50 mile radius of me. There are maybe 5 Apple Stores in that same radius of me.

I guess the big differentiator is the more friendly store vibe and those darned "geniuses".

 

[sxr7171]

What brand of driver shows up for the touchpad in Device Manager when running Windows on a MacBook via Bootcamp? & how similar does the touchpad function under Windows, as compared to OSX?

That's a good question. I need to actually do it on a Macbook. I only run Bootcamp on my iMac and use a Magic Trackpad.

The Magic Trackpad responds very well. Apparently without the bootcamp driver it lacks the same feel. The driver is supplied by Apple.

 

[vbuggy]

Just a dumb question here - if you've never tried Apple's phone service, why and how can you rate it a rung below IBM's phone service?

How is IBM's carry-in service? Do you rate that ten rungs under Apple's carry-in service?

/boggle....

I rate both about the same in terms of mail-in repair. The major difference is that I have to use Thinkpad support much less.

The major difference in favour of Apple if you're me is that should your piece of junk crap out on the road (as it does with not a giant, but certainly noticeable degree) the places I work in I'm almost guaranteed to be able to just buy a replacement the same day. Obviously on the PC side I can buy a replacement in any major city, but it likely won't be the same machine.

 

[Tegeril]

I've personally never run into a "smug" genius. They are always precise and often compassionate with issues and they frequently replace things that are in more of a grey area on whether they should be replaced at all.

I've also never seen an Apple Store that stops taking Mac appointments before iOS appointments...

And for the first year you don't have to purchase AppleCare to get any different level of service re: replacements in store.

😵

 

[Kaido]

I've personally never run into a "smug" genius. They are always precise and often compassionate with issues and they frequently replace things that are in more of a grey area on whether they should be replaced at all.

I think it's just more fun in general for people to stereotype, especially on the Internet where the most vocal people are the fanboys & haters. I know a lot of Mac owners in real life and while they're generally pretty happy with their computers, they're typically not the Mac evangelists that the media would have you believe. Ford vs. Dodge, PS3 vs. Xbox, etc. maybe a little bit more, but in general I think most people are a lot more mellow.

Same for people working in Genius Bars & other jobs where they have to deal with the public - you get a mix of people & attitudes. The worst I've seen is usually at places like Best Buy & Staples where the workers think they know more than they do and get defensive or patronizing about it.

I feel bad too for people who have to deal with the public. It's hard not to get cynical after awhile because people can be so demanding and just so plain dumb. When I was getting my iPhone fixed at the Genius Bar, the guy next to me was yelling at the other Genius technician about his laptop. The guy has like a PowerPC Macbook that he'd been using for a million years with all his work on it, the drive had died, and he had no backup - but since "Macs are supposed to do the backup automatically" he was super belligerent about it and was demanding a replacement drive & his data restored. For a machine years out of warranty that he didn't personally backup. Computers aren't magic. Cars aren't magic. Technology isn't magic.

It reminds me of the early days of GPS. We had an older guy return one he bought because it was "defective". We walked through his procedure and it wasn't until 5 minutes in that we discovered that he thought it took voice commands - they do now, but this was like 2003 when GPS's were just barely getting affordable and had just added text-to-speech for vocal turn directions and were lightyears away from taking voice commands. He didn't want it anymore when he realized he had to manually type in an address :biggrin:

 

[Eug]

There is no such thing as a PowerPC MacBook. 😉

 

[raf051888]

I would try the SSD first. OWC has a Data Doubler which will allow both two 2.5-inch drives inside.

 

[sxr7171]

I've personally never run into a "smug" genius. They are always precise and often compassionate with issues and they frequently replace things that are in more of a grey area on whether they should be replaced at all.

I've also never seen an Apple Store that stops taking Mac appointments before iOS appointments...

And for the first year you don't have to purchase AppleCare to get any different level of service re: replacements in store.

😵

Oh yes. They are all about iOS now. The Mac hours are 2 hours shorter than iOS hours which are until 30 minutes before close.

 

[sxr7171]

I rate both about the same in terms of mail-in repair. The major difference is that I have to use Thinkpad support much less.

The major difference in favour of Apple if you're me is that should your piece of junk crap out on the road (as it does with not a giant, but certainly noticeable degree) the places I work in I'm almost guaranteed to be able to just buy a replacement the same day. Obviously on the PC side I can buy a replacement in any major city, but it likely won't be the same machine.

Now that they simplified the lines yes. But if you had say last year's customized Macbook Air then a quick off the shelf replacement was not possible. This year it looks like they are offering all the sensible options off the shelf. That is a major advantage.

In any case I agree if you're down at least with a Mac you can have a reasonably close replacement easily. With a Thinkpad forget it, maybe only in NYC could you get a replacement at J&R or B&H and it will not be the same machine.

Both are top tier in terms of service. You can't even compare to HP, Dell, Sony etc. If you have the 4 hour service contract sure, but the standard warranty is hopeless with those.

 

[Eug]

Dell turned us off with our institutional purchases. They kept on getting the custom configurations wrong, but curiously it was always in their favour. After a while we dropped Dell completely. This kinda surprised me actually because I had always assumed Dell targeted the corporate market. Maybe it was just a local thing I dunno, but it was horrible.

With Sony our only experience was with personal consumer oriented computers, but that was also horrible. Weirdly enough, I've had good experiences with Asus (Nexus 7), and Acer (el cheapo nettop).

With Apple, the support has definitely been good for me. I'm a bit biased of late though, because my currrent iMac is a replacement from Apple. I had a 2009 iMac with 4x2 GB = 8 GB RAM. That thing was having problems so I brought it in. They tried to fix it. Didn't work. They tried again, didn't work. So, they offered to replace it with a 2010 model. They transferred the data to the new iMac, AND removed the old drive from the old iMac and handed it to me to keep. Unfortunately, the new computer only had 2x2 GB because that was my original purchase. The other 2x2 was an aftermarket addition. Nonetheless I had informed them of that when I brought in the computer so they took back the computer again and got me ANOTHER new 2010 iMac. In fact, the called me to ask if I wanted 4x2 GB or 2x4 GB and of course I took the latter, not only because the latter left me two memory slots open, but also because at the time 2x4 GB was much more expensive. This whole process did take a few weeks, but I came out of it very satisfied. Brand new and faster machine with 2 more open memory slots than I had before, for no cost to me.

Actually, because it was a new machine, they couldn't transfer the Apple Care warranty, so they refunded me the remaining amount of the Apple Care. I could then choose to buy Apple Care or not again for the new machine.

 

[dclive]

Dell turned us off with our institutional purchases. They kept on getting the custom configurations wrong, but curiously it was always in their favour. After a while we dropped Dell completely. This kinda surprised me actually because I had always assumed Dell targeted the corporate market. Maybe it was just a local thing I dunno, but it was horrible.

With Sony our only experience was with personal consumer oriented computers, but that was also horrible. Weirdly enough, I've had good experiences with Asus (Nexus 7), and Acer (el cheapo nettop).

With Apple, the support has definitely been good for me. I'm a bit biased of late though, because my currrent iMac is a replacement from Apple. I had a 2009 iMac with 4x2 GB = 8 GB RAM. That thing was having problems so I brought it in. They tried to fix it. Didn't work. They tried again, didn't work. So, they offered to replace it with a 2010 model. They transferred the data to the new iMac, AND removed the old drive from the old iMac and handed it to me to keep. Unfortunately, the new computer only had 2x2 GB because that was my original purchase. The other 2x2 was an aftermarket addition. Nonetheless I had informed them of that when I brought in the computer so they took back the computer again and got me ANOTHER new 2010 iMac. In fact, the called me to ask if I wanted 4x2 GB or 2x4 GB and of course I took the latter, not only because the latter left me two memory slots open, but also because at the time 2x4 GB was much more expensive. This whole process did take a few weeks, but I came out of it very satisfied. Brand new and faster machine with 2 more open memory slots than I had before, for no cost to me.

Actually, because it was a new machine, they couldn't transfer the Apple Care warranty, so they refunded me the remaining amount of the Apple Care. I could then choose to buy Apple Care or not again for the new machine.

Impressive!

 

[Zaap]

The resale value point is misleading.
DIY PC/Hackintosh builders aren't generally interested in reselling a PC as a whole- that's Apple thinking. Having to get rid of everything (including perfectly fine monitors) in order to buy everything over again is an unnecessary hassle if all one wants to do is upgrade.

To upgrade to the latest Haswell, all I have to do to my sig system is switch out the motherboard and CPU. Why would I want to give up perfectly good RAM, SSDs, video cards, case, PSU, monitors, etc. if I didn't want or need to?

Meanwhile, an i7 2600K can still fetch $250-$300 and my motherboard another $100. Considering the price of the upgrade is much less than replacing a full system for no real reason, the margin is probably similar.

And of course downside of Apple's inflated resale market comes into play when you're on the other side of the equation and want to buy a used Mac. For every seller getting a high price, there's a buyer getting outdated technology for way too much. You'll witness the spectacle of people paying ridiculous rip-off prices for old Core2 hardware that's now 6 to 7 years out of date. Macs really only make sense new, as older ones often cost 1/2 as much for 1/4 the level of hardware.

And notice the "it takes too much time to build a PC" argument. Then in the next breath outlining a ludicrous process of an entire machine out of commission in order to take it somewhere to be fixed multiple times for something that shouldn't take more than a few minutes to fix yourself. That is, with a system that hasn't been purposefully designed with the belief the user is too dumb to service it themselves.

 

[sxr7171]

Dell turned us off with our institutional purchases. They kept on getting the custom configurations wrong, but curiously it was always in their favour. After a while we dropped Dell completely. This kinda surprised me actually because I had always assumed Dell targeted the corporate market. Maybe it was just a local thing I dunno, but it was horrible.

With Sony our only experience was with personal consumer oriented computers, but that was also horrible. Weirdly enough, I've had good experiences with Asus (Nexus 7), and Acer (el cheapo nettop).

With Apple, the support has definitely been good for me. I'm a bit biased of late though, because my currrent iMac is a replacement from Apple. I had a 2009 iMac with 4x2 GB = 8 GB RAM. That thing was having problems so I brought it in. They tried to fix it. Didn't work. They tried again, didn't work. So, they offered to replace it with a 2010 model. They transferred the data to the new iMac, AND removed the old drive from the old iMac and handed it to me to keep. Unfortunately, the new computer only had 2x2 GB because that was my original purchase. The other 2x2 was an aftermarket addition. Nonetheless I had informed them of that when I brought in the computer so they took back the computer again and got me ANOTHER new 2010 iMac. In fact, the called me to ask if I wanted 4x2 GB or 2x4 GB and of course I took the latter, not only because the latter left me two memory slots open, but also because at the time 2x4 GB was much more expensive. This whole process did take a few weeks, but I came out of it very satisfied. Brand new and faster machine with 2 more open memory slots than I had before, for no cost to me.

Actually, because it was a new machine, they couldn't transfer the Apple Care warranty, so they refunded me the remaining amount of the Apple Care. I could then choose to buy Apple Care or not again for the new machine.

I suspect the level of care you received was because you had Applecare on it.

Generally Dell and Sony are hopeless unless you buy their upgraded support options and then things are different. So it is a must buy for those two.

 

[sxr7171]

The resale value point is misleading.
DIY PC/Hackintosh builders aren't generally interested in reselling a PC as a whole- that's Apple thinking. Having to get rid of everything (including perfectly fine monitors) in order to buy everything over again is an unnecessary hassle if all one wants to do is upgrade.

To upgrade to the latest Haswell, all I have to do to my sig system is switch out the motherboard and CPU. Why would I want to give up perfectly good RAM, SSDs, video cards, case, PSU, monitors, etc. if I didn't want or need to?

Meanwhile, an i7 2600K can still fetch $250-$300 and my motherboard another $100. Considering the price of the upgrade is much less than replacing a full system for no real reason, the margin is probably similar.

And of course downside of Apple's inflated resale market comes into play when you're on the other side of the equation and want to buy a used Mac. For every seller getting a high price, there's a buyer getting outdated technology for way too much. You'll witness the spectacle of people paying ridiculous rip-off prices for old Core2 hardware that's now 6 to 7 years out of date. Macs really only make sense new, as older ones often cost 1/2 as much for 1/4 the level of hardware.

And notice the "it takes too much time to build a PC" argument. Then in the next breath outlining a ludicrous process of an entire machine out of commission in order to take it somewhere to be fixed multiple times for something that shouldn't take more than a few minutes to fix yourself. That is, with a system that hasn't been purposefully designed with the belief the user is too dumb to service it themselves.

You have to also pretty much re-hackintosh the hackintosh right? Research out the upgrades find kexts or determine compatibility?

The Apple experience is about the computer working for you. The hackintosh experience is about you working for your computer. If I had to work that hard for my computer I'd rather just do it in Windows. And these days Windows isn't that much of a chore to run anymore.

 

[Zaap]

You have to also pretty much re-hackintosh the hackintosh right? Research out the upgrades find kexts or determine compatibility?

In the old days that was the case, but not so much anymore. Sites like Tonymacx86 and kakewalk have long made the process pretty simple. If I were to upgrade to IvyBridge, there are dozens of boards that work to choose from, all the research has been done already, and it'd be a simple matter of preparing a USB installer for the new board- or simply reapplying the right settings to my current install of OSX. Also, once installed, OSX is amazingly resilient. When I upgraded from a Core2 to my current Sandybridge system, my then-current install of Lion booted right up. The only thing I had to add was a boot flag to enable my newer graphic card. (Heck, even my old install of Snow Leopard booted fine on the same hardware- which I discovered by accident on selecting the wrong boot drive at one point.)

Since I'll skip IB and go straight to Haswell, it's merely a matter of waiting until there's known working hardware. Unless I was a trail-blazer and wanted to figure it out myself. I've never been into that really as I'm not the hacker type, and don't have time for it anyway, so I'll simply wait until there's plenty of recommended hardware. And if the pattern holds, that'll likely be long before the entire Mac lineup gets a Haswell refresh, so it's not like waiting around for proper current-gen hardware before one updates is a Hackintosh negative vs. Apple. (How long in the making was the MacPro refresh again?)

The Apple experience is about the computer working for you.

How is RAM being soldered to the motherboard, non-replaceable batteries, non-upgradable/non-standard flash drives, needing to lug around a clunky adapter for a simple ethernet connection 'working for me'? (All issues I have with the current MacBook "Pro" that stretches the credibility of its label.) There's lots I love about actual Macs (mainly laptops) but they come with their own set of limitations and issues that are deal killers for many.

And once more- running Windows isn't an either/or proposition, so that's a moot point.

 

[Tecnico1931]

depends i personaly just get a mac

 

[Kaido]

Dell turned us off with our institutional purchases. They kept on getting the custom configurations wrong, but curiously it was always in their favour. After a while we dropped Dell completely. This kinda surprised me actually because I had always assumed Dell targeted the corporate market. Maybe it was just a local thing I dunno, but it was horrible.

It's funny, we had a similar experience, but more with pricing & shipping - my Dell Gold account was garbage! I accidentally did a PC config on the regular site instead and it came out to a couple hundred dollars cheaper, and the ship date was like 2 weeks sooner...so we dumped the corporate account and just order right from the website and rarely have any issues :\ Not to mention we got a new rep like every 3 weeks, they must have a huge turnover rate there.