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H1 Headlights

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bruceb said:
Try PIAA Extreme White .. 4000K temperature ... they use the same current as a 55W bulb, but put out the same amount of light as a 110W bulb. I have them and they work great. But they are not cheap and run about $80 for a pack of 2 (for your H1 size)
http://www.shopatron.com/products/productdetail/part_number=PIA11655/353.0
c538943445fce6c6b9644ee370dfd3b8.jpg
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I was looking around and Amazon sells these bulbs for $20 cheaper:

http://www.amazon.com/PIAA-Xtreme-W...IQ/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1330585863&sr=8-16
 
NutBucket said:
Xenon is a type of gas used to fill the halogen bulbs.

In short, any HID retrofit is illegal. The only legal HIDs are those that are factory installed. However, in general sticking an HID bulb into a halogen projector housing will usually produce decent results. I had an HID kit in my '05 Legacy and cutoff was very sharp.
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Oh, thanks for the information. Why is HID retrofit illegal? Is it too bright or all the adjustments and fuzziness issues that come with a retrofit?


In the end, I think I'll stick to street legal. If I'm not happy with the brightness I can try something different in the future.


Seems like I like the OSRAM Night Breaker Plus H1 the most so far.
 
Nab said:
Oh, thanks for the information. Why is HID retrofit illegal? Is it too bright or all the adjustments and fuzziness issues that come with a retrofit?
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Too many things can go wrong. The cutoff basically needs to be perfect, and the projector and lamp need to be designed for each other.

That said, I may or may not be running HIDs in halogen projectors with satisfactory results...
 
If you can find them cheaper, all the better. The price I mentioned is if you buy direct from PIAA ... I am pretty sure I did not pay suggested retail prices either, but that was a few years ago.
 
Upgrade your wiring harness and get higher wattage incandescent bulbs. I use 65W ones in my Jeep and they've been going strong for over 2 years. The light is a little whiter than normal because of the higher wattage.


They won't be legal but f*** the law. If those a-holes with HIDs can put out way more light legally, why can't I put out slightly slightly more?
 
Throckmorton said:
Upgrade your wiring harness and get higher wattage incandescent bulbs. I use 65W ones in my Jeep and they've been going strong for over 2 years. The light is a little whiter than normal because of the higher wattage.


They won't be legal but f*** the law. If those a-holes with HIDs can put out way more light legally, why can't I put out slightly slightly more?
Click to expand...


As a student, I don't have the $$$ to get into trouble with the law. I'd like to stay legal!

Thanks for giving me all the options though. 🙂
 
The chances of you getting pulled over for illegal lighting that is being discussed in this thread are slim to none.

Unless you're running those stupid purple headlights and drive like an asshat its really nothing to worry about.

And get less bitter Throckmorton. OEM HID setups are usually awesome and don't blind others unless there's some elevation difference involved(speed bumps, etc.)
 
NutBucket said:
The chances of you getting pulled over for illegal lighting that is being discussed in this thread are slim to none.

Unless you're running those stupid purple headlights and drive like an asshat its really nothing to worry about.

And get less bitter Throckmorton. OEM HID setups are usually awesome and don't blind others unless there's some elevation difference involved(speed bumps, etc.)
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I just emailed the guys over at theretrofit to see which kit will be compatible and how much it'll cost me.
 
Throckmorton said:
They won't be legal but f*** the law. If those a-holes with HIDs can put out way more light legally, why can't I put out slightly slightly more?
Click to expand...

The legal problems with tinted bulbs come from the color, not the light output (which is usually less than good bulbs without tinting). The PIAA bulbs I'm talking about are still 55-watt bulbs no matter what the marketing department says, and there's a reason that they're trying to rate brightness with watts (which simply isn't a thing) instead of lumens (which is how brightness is actually measured).

There are also issues of how the beam pattern is designed. DOT-legal HID setups distribute that extra light in many different areas so that the "hot spot" does not exceed legal values. Most of the "extra" lumens from HID setups are thrown away from the hot spot; the optics are designed to throw a different beam pattern so that the "hot spot" isn't overpowered. If you drop a significantly brighter bulb into a housing designed for a dimmer bulb, you're liable to end up throwing too much light into the hot spot to stay within legal limits.

Think of it this way:

Let's say, for purely example purposes to keep the math easy, that the legal limit for light in the "hot spot" of a headlight beam is 1,000 lumens, the limit for light to each side is 500 lumens, and the limit for light close to the car is 750 lumens.

You have two headlight optical units, one designed for a 1,500 lumen halogen bulb and one designed for a 2,500 lumen HID.

The first optic will send 66% of the light into the "hot spot" because that's where light is most critical. It will probably then spread the remaining light equally between the left and right leaving a "black hole" in front of the car (this is actually how most older US headlights worked generally as foreground light was very low).

The second optic will only send 40% of the light to the "hot spot", at which point the "hot spot" is maxed out. It will then disperse 20% of the light left, and 20% right, maxing out both left and right fields as well. The remaining light will be dumped into the foreground.

In both of the above cases, the "hot spot" never exceeds 1,000 lumens.

Now, let's put a 2,000 lumen over-wattage bulb in the first optical housing. It's still sending 66% of the light to the "hot spot." That means you now have a bit over 1,300 lumens in the hot spot, 30% more than the legal limit. Even though the total light output is lower than the HID system, you're over legal limits in a specific portion of the beam pattern and causing potential problems for others on the road. You're also not getting the full benefit because you're not maxing out the left/right areas of the beam and you're sacrificing visibility off to the sides of the car.

Hope that helps illustrate why the combination of the bulb and the housing are important.

ZV
 
Zenmervolt said:
The legal problems with tinted bulbs come from the color, not the light output (which is usually less than good bulbs without tinting). The PIAA bulbs I'm talking about are still 55-watt bulbs no matter what the marketing department says, and there's a reason that they're trying to rate brightness with watts (which simply isn't a thing) instead of lumens (which is how brightness is actually measured).

There are also issues of how the beam pattern is designed. DOT-legal HID setups distribute that extra light in many different areas so that the "hot spot" does not exceed legal values. Most of the "extra" lumens from HID setups are thrown away from the hot spot; the optics are designed to throw a different beam pattern so that the "hot spot" isn't overpowered. If you drop a significantly brighter bulb into a housing designed for a dimmer bulb, you're liable to end up throwing too much light into the hot spot to stay within legal limits.

Think of it this way:

Let's say, for purely example purposes to keep the math easy, that the legal limit for light in the "hot spot" of a headlight beam is 1,000 lumens, the limit for light to each side is 500 lumens, and the limit for light close to the car is 750 lumens.

You have two headlight optical units, one designed for a 1,500 lumen halogen bulb and one designed for a 2,500 lumen HID.

The first optic will send 66% of the light into the "hot spot" because that's where light is most critical. It will probably then spread the remaining light equally between the left and right leaving a "black hole" in front of the car (this is actually how most older US headlights worked generally as foreground light was very low).

The second optic will only send 40% of the light to the "hot spot", at which point the "hot spot" is maxed out. It will then disperse 20% of the light left, and 20% right, maxing out both left and right fields as well. The remaining light will be dumped into the foreground.

In both of the above cases, the "hot spot" never exceeds 1,000 lumens.

Now, let's put a 2,000 lumen over-wattage bulb in the first optical housing. It's still sending 66% of the light to the "hot spot." That means you now have a bit over 1,300 lumens in the hot spot, 30% more than the legal limit. Even though the total light output is lower than the HID system, you're over legal limits in a specific portion of the beam pattern and causing potential problems for others on the road. You're also not getting the full benefit because you're not maxing out the left/right areas of the beam and you're sacrificing visibility off to the sides of the car.

Hope that helps illustrate why the combination of the bulb and the housing are important.

ZV
Click to expand...


That actually did clear a lot of things up for me. I won't be looking at any bulbs that claim to be a higher watt than what is listed. From what you are saying, it also seems like HID might be a good idea if I get the kit from a reputable place that knows what it is doing, because it'll spread the light to more of the areas that need it. I'll wait to hear back from retrofit with the pricing and their recommendation and then decide if that is a better idea than just going with the Osram. The complete kits on the website around $250, I'm not sure if I wanna drop that much money lighting, is it worth it?

Also, if I get the HID kit, it'll only replace the low-beam, right? So will I have to do something with my high-beam as well or can I keep those the same? Will it look/be awkward to have HID lowbeam and normal high beams? I asked these same questions to retrofit, but I thought it'd be nice to get more opinions from people that have experience with retrofit/HID kits and are not trying to sell me their product!

Thanks!
 
Throckmorton said:
Upgrade your wiring harness and get higher wattage incandescent bulbs. I use 65W ones in my Jeep and they've been going strong for over 2 years. The light is a little whiter than normal because of the higher wattage.


They won't be legal but f*** the law. If those a-holes with HIDs can put out way more light legally, why can't I put out slightly slightly more?
Click to expand...

wow.
 
Candlepower is an awesome site. Great bulbs have a higher replacement rate. If your aren't really driving they are just a waste in both money and time to replace them.

Backup lighting upgrades are also a great bang for buck.
 
ballmode said:
s2000/tsx/tl headlights > all
Click to expand...

amen to that. i can be in the far left lane of a 6 lane highway and still light up the far right lane, while still keeping my cutoff ~2 feet above the ground, well below anyone's windows.

i would rank ls430 above the tsx/tl though...but they're bigger/more difficult to retrofit.
 
Nab said:
From what you are saying, it also seems like HID might be a good idea if I get the kit from a reputable place that knows what it is doing, because it'll spread the light to more of the areas that need it.
Click to expand...

You'll need a full setup designed for that specific HID bulb which will replace the entire light housing, but as long as it's designed for the HID bulb being used and it's set up for DOT beam pattern, yes, it's OK.

The issue is that you can never just drop a random HID into a housing that wasn't designed for the HID. All bulbs put the light source (filament in traditional bulbs, arc in HIDs) in a slightly different place/orientation and because optics rely on a fairly precise placement and orientation of the source simply adapting a HID to fit in where a traditional bulb used to go doesn't work because the light source is positioned differently due to bulb design (and the arc in a HID is even a different shape with different emission characteristics than a traditional filament, so even locating it in the same spot wouldn't work because it's shaped fundamentally differently). As a result, you have to replace the entire housing, which gets expensive fast.

For the most part, a pair of Narva +30 or +50 bulbs will provide enough of an improvement.

One very fundamental thing that gets overlooked a LOT is simply aiming the headlights correctly. You'd be shocked at how many cars/motorcycles have headlights where the aim is just ridiculously wrong. I used to have a motorcycle that was downright dangerous at night when I bought it. At first I thought it was just the headlight design, but I figured that it couldn't hurt to check the aim. The improvement was incredible, like going from a dim flashlight to one of those handheld "1,000,000 candle power" spotlights.

ZV
 
Zenmervolt said:
You'll need a full setup designed for that specific HID bulb which will replace the entire light housing, but as long as it's designed for the HID bulb being used and it's set up for DOT beam pattern, yes, it's OK.

The issue is that you can never just drop a random HID into a housing that wasn't designed for the HID. All bulbs put the light source (filament in traditional bulbs, arc in HIDs) in a slightly different place/orientation and because optics rely on a fairly precise placement and orientation of the source simply adapting a HID to fit in where a traditional bulb used to go doesn't work because the light source is positioned differently due to bulb design (and the arc in a HID is even a different shape with different emission characteristics than a traditional filament, so even locating it in the same spot wouldn't work because it's shaped fundamentally differently). As a result, you have to replace the entire housing, which gets expensive fast.

For the most part, a pair of Narva +30 or +50 bulbs will provide enough of an improvement.

One very fundamental thing that gets overlooked a LOT is simply aiming the headlights correctly. You'd be shocked at how many cars/motorcycles have headlights where the aim is just ridiculously wrong. I used to have a motorcycle that was downright dangerous at night when I bought it. At first I thought it was just the headlight design, but I figured that it couldn't hurt to check the aim. The improvement was incredible, like going from a dim flashlight to one of those handheld "1,000,000 candle power" spotlights.

ZV
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Thanks for clearing things up. I think I'll stick with the brighter Halogens and call it a day. Would you recommend the Narva +50 over the Osram Night Breakers? Both seem to be around $30 for 2 bulbs.

How do I check to see if the aim is correct?

Thanks,
Nab


edit: I just quickly googled how to aim a headlight and there were a lot of tutorials, so I can check one of those out. Another question though, should I be using these same headlights for fog lights (if I install some in the future)? Or is there a different criteria for them? It seems that most are labelled for head/fog.
 
Last edited:
Nab said:
Ballmode, nice car! Do you have fog lights on that? It doesn't look like it from the picture, but was just wondering because I might eventually get some if they make a difference.
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Yes I have fog lights, but they don't do jack.

I have an H1 HID retrofit kit in my car, probably 5400k, I'd prefer 4300k

They do shine bright up too high and I get flashed on the highway by semis coming the other direction. I'm thinking about just taking them out and getting good H1 bulbs. STI's from 04/05 have this same headlight and they have 4 level adjusters. They aren't that good.

I just think from a stock standpoint south of supercars, the Acura lineup has some of the best lights.

Criteria for my next car is HID/Leather/RWD/manual/decent soundsystem/something I could wrench on myself.
 
Nab said:
I just quickly googled how to aim a headlight and there were a lot of tutorials, so I can check one of those out. Another question though, should I be using these same headlights for fog lights (if I install some in the future)? Or is there a different criteria for them? It seems that most are labelled for head/fog.
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I tend to use Dan Stern's aiming guide, but pretty much any of the guides you find should be OK.

Many fog lights use an H1 or other single-filament 55-watt bulb, they just have different optics to distribute the beam differently. As mentioned, yellow does tend to work best for fogs, but, frankly, many factory fog lights aren't terribly effective no matter what you do as they're primarily designed for aesthetics rather than function.

ZV
 
ballmode said:
I have an H1 HID retrofit kit in my car, probably 5400k, I'd prefer 4300k

They do shine bright up too high and I get flashed on the highway by semis coming the other direction. I'm thinking about just taking them out and getting good H1 bulbs. STI's from 04/05 have this same headlight and they have 4 level adjusters. They aren't that good.
Click to expand...
You're one of THOSE people! Get those HIDs out!
 
ballmode said:
Yes I have fog lights, but they don't do jack.

I have an H1 HID retrofit kit in my car, probably 5400k, I'd prefer 4300k

They do shine bright up too high and I get flashed on the highway by semis coming the other direction. I'm thinking about just taking them out and getting good H1 bulbs. STI's from 04/05 have this same headlight and they have 4 level adjusters. They aren't that good.

I just think from a stock standpoint south of supercars, the Acura lineup has some of the best lights.

Criteria for my next car is HID/Leather/RWD/manual/decent soundsystem/something I could wrench on myself.
Click to expand...

AAHHH I hate you people. If you're not going to install the whole setup then stick to halogen. The reason it works in the STi is because the internals were designed for HID. They're different than the WRX even though they look the same on the exterior. Yes, you can design HID headlights without projectors; it just doesn't work as well. The reason for the manual adjuster knob inside the car is so that when you have a heavy load in the rear and your headlights point higher, you can lower them and not blind oncoming traffic.

Everything you wanted to know and more on an HID retrofit: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html
 
Thanks for all the replies everyone, I decided to get the Osram bulbs!

Any consensus if a fog kit is worth getting? And if so, should I get them through a Subaru dealership?

Thanks again,
-Nab
 
Fog lights are a very good idea. But do not buy them from the dealer. You will overpay and the quality of both the product and the beam pattern will not be the best. My personal choice for Fog or Driving lights are those made by PIAA as they use real glass for the lens and the beam patterns are very well defined. It will light up what you want to see after they are properly aimed. There are some other good ones out there as well. Only drawback to aftermarket lights, is they may not fit in preexisting bumper cutouts, may need custom brackets and usually their own wiring harness. But the results are worth it. And for heavy fog, Yellow is best for depth perception.
 
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