H.R. 3200: Sec 246 ? NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

[halik]

who are not lawfully present in the United States.

Text


Unless i hear some other section that overrides it or some other mysterious way to go around it, can we get over the illegals get healthcare stupidity already?


Edit:

After some thinking, there are two ways I can imagine the illegal issue to play out:

1) Illegal immigrant uses fake/stolen ssoc and claims to be a resident/alien. S/he either gets healthcare through the employer or both s/he and the employers are "fined" for not being sufficiently insured.

2) Illegal immigrant is paid tax free/ under the table and doesn't pay insurance.

In the first case, the immigrant can't claim the tax credit offsets per the statute and also I don't think they file for taxes regardless.

In the second case, I don't think we can prevent/stop this in any way.

In both cases, however, even in the worse case scenario we're no worse off than before the reform. Illegals get free health care right now, at least we can make them pay for it.

 

[SAWYER]

They are not legally provided for now are they? Yet they still get it

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Sawyer
They are not legally provided for now are they? Yet they still get it

Employers have to pay "fines" (basically chip in) for the employees that don't get insurance through them. So they won't get "free" anything and I have yet to hear a cogent argument how they would.

 

[JS80]

Is there a provision that enforces proof of residency? We don't even check ID for voting.
Is there a risk that the clause will get taken to court and get stricken after bill passes?
How come illegals get other government benefits now?

 

[blackangst1]

Right. They arent already covered, yet they arent turned away either. Nothing in regards to illegals getting care will change.

 

[spidey07]

http://opencrs.com/document/R40773/

 

[boomerang]

We repeatedly hear the argument from the left that 50 million are uninsured. If they're serious about illegals not being covered they need to reduce that figure to reflect it.

You've got your head deep in the sand if you think illegals will not be covered. It goes against everything the Democratic party stands for.

Plus, there's that pesky issue of wanting to buy votes.

With a majority, they can just declare every illegal legal. It's transparent that the plan is exactly that.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Right. They arent already covered, yet they arent turned away either. Nothing in regards to illegals getting care will change.

Yupp, you can't prevent that. But you can charge them/their employeers for not being insured, which nets out to the same thing as if they actually paid (*gasp*) for their ER visits.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Right. They arent already covered, yet they arent turned away either. Nothing in regards to illegals getting care will change.

What exactly would your plan be to check the immigration status of individuals before performing emergency care?

Regardless, this thread was created to (once again) show that the claims by the right that this bill would cover illegal immigrants are bald faced lies. You can claim that his bill does not do enough to keep illegal immigrants out of hospitals, (a ghoulish proposition, but one you could argue) but to claim that it somehow covers them is a deliberate misrepresentation and you know it.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: JS80
Is there a provision that enforces proof of residency? We don't even check ID for voting.
Is there a risk that the clause will get taken to court and get stricken after bill passes?
How come illegals get other government benefits now?

They checked my ID when I was getting my voter registration... where the f do you live?

On what basis would it be struck down? They are non-residents from legal point of view (I was a legal alien for a long time btw) and as such they are not afforded these things... well maybe except in loony cali.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: boomerang
We repeatedly hear the argument from the left that 50 million are uninsured. If they're serious about illegals not being covered they need to reduce that figure to reflect it.

You've got your head deep in the sand if you think illegals will not be covered. It goes against everything the Democratic party stands for.

Plus, there's that pesky issue of wanting to buy votes.

With a majority, they can just declare every illegal legal. It's transparent that the plan is exactly that.

Hahahaha, nice.

"I KNOW THE BILL SAYS THEY WON'T BE COVERED BUT I JUST KNOW THEY WILL BE ANYWAY".

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: boomerang
We repeatedly hear the argument from the left that 50 million are uninsured. If they're serious about illegals not being covered they need to reduce that figure to reflect it.

You've got your head deep in the sand if you think illegals will not be covered. It goes against everything the Democratic party stands for.

Plus, there's that pesky issue of wanting to buy votes.

With a majority, they can just declare every illegal legal. It's transparent that the plan is exactly that.

I understand their motivation and everything, but the o/p is the section from the bill VERBATIM. Illegals do not get the credits to offset the "fines" for not being insured and unless someone removes it, this will be the law.

 

[Patranus]

Might want to re read the title of your own thread. That section sighted is clearly refering to "affordability credits" not more, nothing less. That is just one source of federal funding provided in HR 3200.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Patranus
Might want to re read the title of your own thread. That section sighted is clearly refering to "affordability credits" not more, nothing less. That is just one source of federal funding provided in HR 3200.

What other scenarios are there for federal funding for illegals?

In any case, illegals de facto have free health care at the moment.

 

[evident]

how do you turn away an illegal who's bleeding at the doorsteps of a hospital?

 

[LunarRay]

Well... I've read HR3200 and yes it does say that and refers to another section as well... However, the folks who are up in arms around here keep saying it does... NOT the Subsidy that is rather explicit... but the ability to get coverage is not discussed... far as I can tell...

The language is sorta funny. Think about this. Illegal Mom with 8 kids all born in the USA... these kids are citizens and covered. They should be in my opinion and ya know what... I think the mom should be too. Why you ask... heheheh cuz she has to take care of those 8 citizens or the state will if she is sick etc.. I'd rather have her covered and well than not and sick.
But that's me..

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: evident
how do you turn away an illegal who's bleeding at the doorsteps of a hospital?

Well if he/she used a stolen/fake ssoc, the visit is "prepaid". In the worst case scenraio (guy just jumped over the fence and cut himself...) we're no worse off with the reform.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: evident
how do you turn away an illegal who's bleeding at the doorsteps of a hospital?

You don't.
How many illegal aliens do you think will apply for coverage? Anyone can appy and get coverage... maybe not Government Plans... maybe....
The OP item is to do with the subsidy.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Patranus
Might want to re read the title of your own thread. That section sighted is clearly refering to "affordability credits" not more, nothing less. That is just one source of federal funding provided in HR 3200.

What other scenarios are there for federal funding for illegals?

In any case, illegals de facto have free health care at the moment.

Illegals can get chemotherapy and heart bypass surgeries for free?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: JS80
We don't even check ID for voting.

where the hell do you vote?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Well... I've read HR3200 and yes it does say that and refers to another section as well... However, the folks who are up in arms around here keep saying it does...

The language is sorta funny. Think about this. Illegal Mom with 8 kids all born in the USA... these kids are citizens and covered. They should be in my opinion and ya know what... I think the mom should be too. Why you ask... heheheh cuz she has to take care of those 8 citizens or the state will if she is sick etc.. I'd rather have her covered and well than not and sick.
But that's me..

Congrats, you've found the loophole I was trying to lead OP to.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: JS80
We don't even check ID for voting.

where the hell do you vote?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,526625,00.html
http://www.digtriad.com/news/l...toryid=113290&catid=57

Where the fuck are you voting?

http://www.sos.ca.gov/election...va_id_requirements.htm

?In person? voters must show a ?current and valid photo identification? or ?a copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document that shows the name and address of the voter.?

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Well... I've read HR3200 and yes it does say that and refers to another section as well... However, the folks who are up in arms around here keep saying it does...

The language is sorta funny. Think about this. Illegal Mom with 8 kids all born in the USA... these kids are citizens and covered. They should be in my opinion and ya know what... I think the mom should be too. Why you ask... heheheh cuz she has to take care of those 8 citizens or the state will if she is sick etc.. I'd rather have her covered and well than not and sick.
But that's me..

Congrats, you've found the loophole I was trying to lead OP to.

We still need immigration reform, but the point is that the health care reform makes us no worse off than before... unless you can make an argument otherwise.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Patranus
Might want to re read the title of your own thread. That section sighted is clearly refering to "affordability credits" not more, nothing less. That is just one source of federal funding provided in HR 3200.

What other scenarios are there for federal funding for illegals?

In any case, illegals de facto have free health care at the moment.

Illegals can get chemotherapy and heart bypass surgeries for free?

ER visits are where the costs come from, rather than the exotic things of that sort. If I show up at an ER with a burst appendix, they'll cut me open before asking for my insurance card.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: evident
how do you turn away an illegal who's bleeding at the doorsteps of a hospital?

Treat them, deport them, work out the bill with their native country.

If you've ever traveled internationally you will understand that if you are in the country LEGALLY they are more than happy to treat you. Processes are in place to work out the cost of the care. This is why I have DAN insurance if I get into a scuba problem and demand I have insurance to cover out of country medical emergencies - damn that personal responsibility.

I like to point to my canadian co-worker. He's in the country legally, has great health insurance via US employer, owns firearms now, he's loving the USA.

Follow the country's laws you are visiting or living in and you will have no problems.