[H] NV40 Review Sucks

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

kingmike

Senior member
Sep 8, 2000
868
0
0
Doing a comparison with real games, synthetic benchmarks, and any other tests decided by the reviewer between 2 different graphic cards calls for both cards to be run at the exact same settings!
Any other way only muddies the water, PERIOD.
 

PrinceXizor

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2002
2,188
99
91
Actually, we tend to make a lot of assumptions about graphics cards that we take for granted when benchmarking. Here is what we are REALLY saying.

On an <insert rig specs here> running at <insert resolution here> and with game settings at <insert game settings here>, product XYZ produces <insert average frame rate here>. The assumption we are making is that 1. the higher the number the better. 2. That our test bed accurately reflects a "general" system. 3. That the videocard is actually doing what we tell it to (i.e. the whole "brilinear filtering brouhaha).

In this case your independent variable is your game settings (resolution, AF, AA, etc) and arriving at a dependent variable of an average frame rate. In other words, you plug in specific game settings (1600x1200, 2XAF, 4XAA) and you arrive at an average frame rate of some value.

All HardOCP is trying to do is reverse the situation. They are (or should be) making the average frame rate the independent variable and having their game settings be the dependent variable. In other words, you take an average frame rate of XX and determine what the maximum levels you can set your card to, and still get an average frame rate of XX.

It certainly is a different way to look at it. Of course, most peoples knee-jerk reaction to anything new is to bash it mercilessly with statements that don't "prove" anything (It sucks!, Kyle is an idiot, What kind of morons..., etc.) as opposed to actually THINKING about it and coming up with reasons why its not a good way to assess video cards.

I personally think it is an interesting viewpoint. What is more useful? Knowing that the GeForce 6XXX is 2X as fast as a Radeon 9800XT at 2056x1920? or knowing that at a minimum frame rate of 60fps, the Radeon 9800XT can handle 1600x1200, 2xAF, 8xAA; while the Geforce 6XXX can handle 2056x1920 2xAF, 8xAA. Since I don't ever play at 1600X1200 (don't have the monitor for it). The fact that the Geforce kicks tail is great! but totally worthless to me.

I think the major problem with the current review is that they try and reference previous stuff. You CAN'T!!! You just changed your testing methodology! None of your previous data is relevant! Furthermore, because the previous data is irrelevant, YOUR PREVIOUS CONCLUSIONS BASED UPON THAT DATA ARE ALSO IRRELEVENT! In that article, they repeatedly reference the huge jump the 9700 Pro had. WHAT huge jump. There WAS no huge jump, because you have no test data for that jump. Your huge jump, was a jump in frame rates using the old methodology. For all they know, they may find the same "underwhelming" setting changes between the Ti and the 9700 Pro, as they are finding in this case. But they don't know, because all of their old data is useless for comparison purposes. So, they really don't know if this is a "big" jump or not. Because they have ZERO other jumps to make a comparison based upon their "new" methodology. But they try and make these types of comparisons anyway, and THAT is where they run into problems.

Whew! Hopefully, that just made sense.

<Picks up his quarter and replaces it with a dollar ;)>

P-X
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,003
126
BFG would say I'm probably one of them for my statements that a 9700Pro and 5800U are the same at 10X7 and 12X10 4x8X.
Actually what I would say to that would be: 12x10 is a new setting and you've shifted the goal post yet again, probably in anticipation of the next card(s) you're going to get.
 

cm123

Senior member
Jul 3, 2003
489
2
76
Originally posted by: Genx87
Kyle is a child. You cant expect children to have a clue.

I have heard about this review and wont even bother reading it.



I second that... (although I do read most all reviews I find on topics that are of interest to me, good, bad or other wise).

Look at his legal troubles he had over a review, its childlish.
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
91
Originally posted by: Dman877

...IMO, they should do both, test cards based on the maximum playable settings like hardocp did, and test at the same settings to get a real comparison...

...agreed. That would be a comprehensive review.

 

Insomniak

Banned
Sep 11, 2003
4,836
0
0
Originally posted by: tazdevl
I think what they did was admirable.

They stepped out of the norm and it does show how impressive the card is. Jebus, the card can run AA/AF at a higher framerate than the NV38 and R360 at the same resolution without the eye candy. That's qualifies as noticeable in my book.

Looking at a raw number these days isn't terribly helpful... I could care less that a card can get 400 FPS in Quake 3 @ 1600 X 1200. But riddle me this... how does it do with the goodies turned on?

As to the whole bias issue mentioned, I think Brent does a solid job keeping things objective. Let us also not forget the blind pro-nVIDIA bent Anand has had despite the craptastic products they have put out over the last 2 years. I think Anand has done an excellent job being Brian Burke's unfiltered mouthpiece.

As for me, I'll be interested to see how the R420 stacks up and will make my purchase decision based on IQ, performance and cost when the cards hit the streets.



Uh, actually Anandtech has been spot on with the stuff it's said over the past few years. I know it's not negative enough to satisfy rabid FanATics, but that just means they're wrong, not AT.
 

PrinceXizor

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2002
2,188
99
91
Originally posted by: cm123
Originally posted by: Genx87
Kyle is a child. You cant expect children to have a clue.

I have heard about this review and wont even bother reading it.



I second that... (although I do read most all reviews I find on topics that are of interest to me, good, bad or other wise).

Look at his legal troubles he had over a review, its childlish.

Legal troubles? Surely you aren't bringing in the vaporware "review" of the Phantom console? You don't actually side with Infinium do you?

P-X

 

cm123

Senior member
Jul 3, 2003
489
2
76
Originally posted by: PrinceXizor
<blockquote>Quote
Originally posted by: cm123
<blockquote>Quote
Originally posted by: Genx87
Kyle is a child. You cant expect children to have a clue.

I have heard about this review and wont even bother reading it.



I second that... (although I do read most all reviews I find on topics that are of interest to me, good, bad or other wise).

Look at his legal troubles he had over a review, its childlish.[/quote]

Legal troubles? Surely you aren't bringing in the vaporware "review" of the Phantom console? You don't actually side with Infinium do you?

P-X[/quote]


Not on what side I take, its his child way of handling the whole thing. When reading the posts he made, seems like the whole thing would not of needed to happen or could of been avoided... maybe even asked for it in how he handled the whole sitution or situtions...
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
Originally posted by: BFG10K
BFG would say I'm probably one of them for my statements that a 9700Pro and 5800U are the same at 10X7 and 12X10 4x8X.
Actually what I would say to that would be: 12x10 is a new setting and you've shifted the goal post yet again, probably in anticipation of the next card(s) you're going to get.


BFG, are you sure you're not Rogo with all that logical fallacy smack you've been talking lately?
 

JBT

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
12,094
1
81
Yeah that review sucked it put a negative spin on teh NV40 launch from all the people who looked at it.
 

Gamingphreek

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
11,679
0
81
The reviews weren't THAT bad. Everyone can sort of get the gist of things that the 6800Ultra is 2x-3x faster than all other competition for now. However the same settings should be used to test the cards not different settings.
-Kevin
 

eastvillager

Senior member
Mar 27, 2003
519
0
0
Negative spin?

See, this is the real problem with the review. Most of you didn't actually pay attention to what they were doing. HardOCP made an invalid assumption that the fanboys out there would be able to realize that they were winning, even without monstrous framerate numbers.


In almost every test in that review, the Nvidia part produces a higher IQ exprience, at the same framerate and same resolution as the existing ATI product.

If that isn't a BIG WIN for nvidia, especially considering the IQ fiascos they've perpetrated in the last generation, I don't know what is.