H/K AVR8000 for $1187.88 --- Deal is Dead - But, turned Sour :(

[BigSmooth]

After reading this thread and a number of others on AVSForum and Home Theater Forum, I'll certainly never be buying a Harman/Kardon product. How can they just REFUSE to acknowledge what are clearly manufacturer's defects? :|

 

[LoverBoyJ]

I was about to jump on this deal when I realized that I don't have enough credit on my card. lucky me.

 

[Apex]

Well, I called the VP of Onecall and talked with him at length about this issue with the AVR8000. He is calling up the President of Harman International right now to get them to do something this Jan 2002 AVR8000 batch issue. I think that H/K should step up to the plate and get this resolved.

I'll post as soon as I hear back.

 

[T2T III]

Originally posted by: Apex
Well, I called the VP of Onecall and talked with him at length about this issue with the AVR8000. He is calling up the President of Harman International right now to get them to do something this Jan 2002 AVR8000 batch issue. I think that H/K should step up to the plate and get this resolved.

I'll post as soon as I hear back.

Good work, Apex. I think there are a few frustrated users who are at their "wits end" at the current moment. It would be nice to see a proper resolution for this issue so those who got in on this deal will be able to properly enjoy the product that they purchased - and without any known defects.

 

[T2T III]

For those who didn't get in on this combo, but are considering some audio / home theater updates, I'm proposing "wje's super, dooper updgrade combo" The combo will run you $1,200, but you will get some nice gear.

Receiver: Sony STR-DA4ES (approx. $619.00 - shipped)
Subwoofer: SVS 25-31 w/340 watt BASH amplifier (approx. $570.00 - shipped)

While the Sony STR-DA4ES in not really a "flagship" model, it is quite close to Sony's flagship STR-DA7ES. The 7ES offers a few more watts per channel and a better touch-screen remote. However, that's about it. The 7ES is not worth the extra $1,200 or so more than the 4ES costs. Regarding the SVS Subwoofers - what more can be said? They speak for themselves.

 

[hx009]

Originally posted by: bigsmooth
After reading this thread and a number of others on AVSForum and Home Theater Forum, I'll certainly never be buying a Harman/Kardon product. How can they just REFUSE to acknowledge what are clearly manufacturer's defects? :|

I talked to H/K tech support today. The tech's reaction was one of "Oh really? And how did you conclude this is a problem with the receiver?". When I explained the procedure, then about the 8 million threads all over the Internet about this issue, his response was "Welp, that's the first I've heard of it. I'll bring it up in a meeting I'm going to in an hour. I guess I'll have some interesting web surfing to do at lunch as well." He was further "shocked" by the fact that I had just bought the unit brand new on Monday from an authorized reseller. Either they are the world's most clueless company, or they told their staff to ignore/lie about this problem. I've got a charge hold on my credit card, as well as an RMA number from HK, but I'm going to wait and see what responses other people get before I just roll over and let HK/OneCall get away with this.

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: wje

Originally posted by: Apex
Well, I called the VP of Onecall and talked with him at length about this issue with the AVR8000. He is calling up the President of Harman International right now to get them to do something this Jan 2002 AVR8000 batch issue. I think that H/K should step up to the plate and get this resolved.

I'll post as soon as I hear back.

Good work, Apex. I think there are a few frustrated users who are at their "wits end" at the current moment. It would be nice to see a proper resolution for this issue so those who got in on this deal will be able to properly enjoy the product that they purchased - and without any known defects.

Yeah, I understand that. It's extremely difficult getting things resolved from bottom up. Often, going straight to the top helps avoid some (though not all) of those headaches.

Anyhow, the VP of Onecall has convinced Harman that this is an issue. It's now at Harman's Engineering and Logistics departments. They should have further info for me on Monday.

I can see both sides of the story now. I think that it's much like buying a top of the line car from any company. Say I bought a Chevy Corvette from a dealership, and there is a rattle in the door. Does it affect the functionality? No. Is it bothersome? Heck yes. Would I ask the dealership to send someone over to pick it up from my house and buy it back from me? Of course not. Would I take it in to the dealership to have it fixed and expect Chevy to foot the bill for the repairs? Of course. Would I stop buying from this dealer because they won't pick up and buy back a this car? I seriously doubt it.

Anyhow, as soon as more info is available to me, I'll spread the news here.

 

[hx009]

Originally posted by: Apex
I can see both sides of the story now. I think that it's much like buying a top of the line car from any company. Say I bought a Chevy Corvette from a dealership, and there is a rattle in the door. Does it affect the functionality? No. Is it bothersome? Heck yes. Would I ask the dealership to send someone over to pick it up from my house and buy it back from me? Of course not. Would I take it in to the dealership to have it fixed and expect Chevy to foot the bill for the repairs? Of course. Would I stop buying from this dealer because they won't pick up and buy back a this car? I seriously doubt it.

Uhm... if that's all you'd expect, they're already doing that. I got an HK RMA # over the phone that I can hand to any local authorized dealer and they have to fix it for free per warranty.

 

[Ahmose]

For me, i'd like the whole thing replaced.
Honestly, i don't trust this Jan2002 batch. Who knows what else got screwed up with their manufacturing in the Jan 2002 batch.

 

[futtbucker]

Apex,

That's the reason to buy a Lexus and not a Corvette. Lexus would come to your house, take your brand new defective car and fix it. They would also give you a loaner car. I don't really have the time or inclination to schlep a brand new 50# monster receiver around Southern California while I have 30 monster cables dangling from my equipment with no functionality for how long?
Do I expect OneCall to come and get this....YES.
Do I expect a refund...YES.
Is that what I am going to get...YES.

 

[flenn]

I also have a Sony, the DA5ES that replaced an HK AVR65 (which also had a hum problem and was fixed at a local service center). Just an FYI for anyone considering the Sony, the DSP on the Sony is superior to anything in its pricerange, IMO. Sony has their own proprietary sound fields developed in some of the most advanced sound studios in the world. The DA4, DA5, DA7 ES series receivers (have I missed any?), offer 192 khz DACs, multiple sound processors, and bass management that you just don't see at this pricepoint. You can set individual EQ and bass crossover (40Hz to 200Hz in 10Hz increments) for each speaker. Keep in mind that the AVR8000 is a $2800 flagship receiver and really shouldn't be compared to my DA5 (which retailed for $1500), but even so, there really isn't anything that the HK offers other than Logic 7, that interests me.

 

[Ahmose]

futtbucker,
So what kind of action did you take with Onecall and/or H/K ?
I've been debating whether:
a) i want to get my money back and forget about this whole Jan2002 fiasco,
or
b) get it replaced by Onecall provided they give me a non Jan 2002 (is this possible ?)
or
c) Wait for some action from H/K.

 

[T2T III]

Originally posted by: Ahmose
futtbucker,
So what kind of action did you take with Onecall and/or H/K ?
I've been debating whether:
a) i want to get my money back and forget about this whole Jan2002 fiasco,
or
b) get it replaced by Onecall provided they give me a non Jan 2002 (is this possible ?)
or
c) Wait for some action from H/K.

I think 'fb' has a valid point and so does Apex. I've had many problems with Sony monitors and Kodak digital cameras. Both items were bought back by their respective companies after I complained enough. However, these issues haven't stopped me from buying other Sony products. But, I will never buy another Kodak digital camera. Also, I recently had an issue with a 160 GB WD "SE" drive. WD was all set to buy the drive back from me after I complained enough. However, they also quickly offered to send me a new 200 GB "SE" drive which I gladly accepted -- and put up for sale at Ebay. Companies will work issues out with you. I fully expect H/K to remedy this situation. H/K needs to come up with some new batches of receivers to offer as "switch out" replacements for those people who are having issues. H/K can then 'refurb' the old ones and sell 'em off for $600.

 

[T2T III]

Given the "bad press" that the H/K 8000 has recently received, here is a very good and thorough review of the 8000 which was posted earlier today over at the AVS Forum: H/K 8000 Review

 

[Apex]

OneCall has got H/K to take some action. Harman is going to take the affected production runs back, and replace them with different production runs without the center channel output issue.

As soon as I know more about the details on how the actual nuts and bolts of how this exchange is going to take place, I'll post it here.

 

[Apex]

OK, as I understand it, here's how it works. Apparently, the issue is, as they explained it to me, the actual design of the AVR8000. One of the wires leading to the center channel amp runs too close to that massive torroidal power transformer, which causes the buzz.

AVR8000 guts

If you bought an AVR8000 from OneCall which shipped 11/23/02 or later and it exhibits excessive center channel buzz during idle, you have 2 choices:

1. Refund of your unit.
2. Keep your unit, get a $50 gift certificate from OneCall

What you need to do is email avr8000@onecall.com with your unit's serial number and your purchase date. It will be handled on a case by case basis. Any questions you may have can be included in this email as well.

 

[futtbucker]

OneCall has indicated that they will send FedEx to pick up these receivers and send a new one. In my case they said no charge to me but I have yet to hear back from them. The only problem they said is determining what serial numbers indicate a non-January build for the replacements that they send out. They seem to be very slow in solving this problem.

Apex, how hard is it to re-route the wire that is causing the problem?

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: futtbucker
OneCall has indicated that they will send FedEx to pick up these receivers and send a new one. In my case they said no charge to me but I have yet to hear back from them. The only problem they said is determining what serial numbers indicate a non-January build for the replacements that they send out. They seem to be very slow in solving this problem.

Apex, how hard is it to re-route the wire that is causing the problem?

Heh. The problem isn't OneCall. They are very willing to. The issue is H/K has been out for Christmas, and then preparing for CES. CES ends on 1/12/02, and they'll resume normal operations after that.

As I understand it, it takes shielding the torroidal transformer and rerouting the wire. However, as to the difficulty I have no idea. If I was to go to a repair center, I'd personally wait a bit until H/K figures out an official solution that they can pass down to the repair centers. To try now would be more headache than it's worth.

 

[T2T III]

The issue is H/K has been out for Christmas, and then preparing for CES. CES ends on 1/12/02, and they'll resume normal operations after that.

Gabriel,

I can understand them being out for the Holiday break. However, if they don't take care of their current customer issues ... there may be no future customers to purchase their new products.

 

[hx009]

Huh? How do you go from this:

Originally posted by: Apex
OneCall has got H/K to take some action. Harman is going to take the affected production runs back, and replace them with different production runs without the center channel output issue.

To this:

Originally posted by: Apex

you have 2 choices:

1. Refund of your unit.
2. Keep your unit, get a $50 gift certificate from OneCall

Are they replacing the units or not?

 

[k0rww]

I ordered an AVR8000 from OneCall the day after Christmas and received a July 2002 production the next day. I'm completely happy with the unit and OneCall's service.

 

[Ahmose]

My understanding is that they're NOT doing exchanges :-( , so you can either get your money back or keep it and get $50

 

[futtbucker]

And...your point is?

 

[Ahmose]

I'm responding to hx009's question on whether they're exchanging them or not.

 

[futtbucker]

How did you sneak in there...I was responding to k0rww. OneCall knew by Christmas what was going on so they would have been foolish to keep sending January units.

OneCall is stonewalling...providing too little, too late. Just send out replacements and be done with it...what the hell are they thinking? Does it seem that people like this (OneCall) are freaking morons or what?