H/K AVR8000 for $1187.88 --- Deal is Dead - But, turned Sour :(

[hx009]

Originally posted by: wje
~~~ For those who did not get in on this deal, don't fear. One member at the Home Theater Forum has indicated he received his receiver and it's dated January 2002. It appears that the H/K 8000 receivers manufactured during this time period have experienced "hiss" on the center channel. Models made after this date, appear to have the situation resolved. On another note, I read of an individual who has a local audio shop that is authorized to sell H/K - and the price for him would have been under $1,000 for this receiver. I don't know where this individual is located - because his profile information was not present. Personally, having the option of purchasing this beast locally - and having the opportunity to verify the date of manufacturing seems like a good way to go. However, I'll keep watch over the other dates of manufacturing that people are posting in regards to what they receive from OneCall and keep this post updated.

Mine is showing up Friday... I'm gonna be pissed if it's defective and they refuse to acknowledge it, then further demand I pay to ship it back and replace it anyway. Either don't acknowledge the defect and not take it back, or take full responsibility and pay the shipping as well. If the majority of the units shipped do have the defect, this "deal" is almost on the brink of being a scam/ripoff.

 

[Thump553]

I ultimately didn't bite on this deal because it was just too large for my space, as well as my wallet already crying in pain from the season. But no matter how this turns out, let me say I really appreciate the audio deals and advice you have been posting wje. Sooner or later I will take the home theater plunge.

 

[sat4fun]

I have two NEC CRT projectors, screen, HTPC and wires, and the room to put it in. Alll I need is a good sound system. Keep the deals posted, I will jump when I get more cash.

 

[T2T III]

I'm reading about more individuals who are getting their 8000s and about 3 people have received January 2002 units. Nobody has posted under the thread yet indicating that they received a unit manufactured outside of January 2002 - but, that could change as more people receive their units. This saddens me - I hope OneCall isn't trying to pull a fast one by dumping these receivers.

I don't know if any of you guys/gals are fans of Sony. But, I'm currently running their STR-DA4ES which, to me, has been my best piece of gear so far. As you could see from my posting history, I've been a big Denon fan - or, a fan of the lower end Denon gear. However, I increased my budget money by $300 and picked up the '4ES' for $619 - shipped from an authorized retailer.

There's been some discussions going on regarding the Sony '4ES' because it's featured and tested in the January 2003 issue of Sound and Vision magazine. The mag didn't post the results of the output with all 5 channels being driven and instead posted a silly statement telling the readers a message from Sony. Apparently Sony is trying to convince listeners that all 5 or 7 channels will never require the same demand - so testing the power to all channels is a meaningless test. While there is some truth in this, it's not completely true. What about concerts with DTS/DD 5.1 encoding? I currently have Steely Dan: Two Against Nature and The Dave Matthews Band: Live at Folsom Field - which both kick @ss by the way! - and they tax all 5 of my speakers to a good degree when listening/viewing.

However, let me state that the '4ES' has more power than I'll ever be able to use. I have it in my family room (dimensions: 21' x 15' x 8' (ceiling height) and I'm never anywhere near maxing the volume out, but the room is filled with louder music and movie tracks.

Some details on getting this receiver for a great price (if any of you are interested): J and R, Sammans out of N.J. are some dealers/retailers. Sammans will give you a price quote if you E-mail them. They should be in the range of $619 (shipped.) Also, J and R price matches. They currently offer free ground shipping (which would normally be $46 for this receiver - hey, it weighs over 55 Lbs. - shipped) but, J and R will price match. My personal pick of the two retailers is J and R. Why? J and R offers you the ability to return something that you don't like within 30 days. They don't hit you with restocking fees, but you'll have to pay the shipping to get it back to them. Sammans will only take gear back if it's defective - and provide you with a new replacement. They will not take back gear that has been opened - and you've determined that it just isn't *right* for you. It seems like going with J and R provides you with an additional piece of mind - and I did have to use their return option one time on some gear that just ... well ... sucked.

Fee free to E-mail me / PM me if you have any questions regarding the Sony STR-DA4ES.

 

[Ahmose]

Any good deals for the Denon 3803 that anyone knows of ?
And yes, Onecall and H/K need to deal with this problem. It's not doing any good to their reputation.
Very unprofessional from their part to be dumping defective units on people !!

 

[T2T III]

Originally posted by: Ahmose
Any good deals for the Denon 3803 that anyone knows of ?
And yes, Onecall and H/K need to deal with this problem. It's not doing any good to their reputation.
Very unprofessional from their part to be dumping defective units on people !!

About the greatest deal on the 3803 that I've read about was $850 from an authorized dealer. However, the dealer does not do Internet sales. If I can come up with something good, I'll post it here.

 

[Ahmose]

About the greatest deal on the 3803 that I've read about was $850 from an authorized dealer. However, the dealer does not do Internet sales. If I can come up with something good, I'll post it here.

Thanks wje, we really appreciate your effort here.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: wje

Originally posted by: Ahmose
Any good deals for the Denon 3803 that anyone knows of ?
And yes, Onecall and H/K need to deal with this problem. It's not doing any good to their reputation.
Very unprofessional from their part to be dumping defective units on people !!

About the greatest deal on the 3803 that I've read about was $850 from an authorized dealer. However, the dealer does not do Internet sales. If I can come up with something good, I'll post it here.

I'm not 100% sure about this, but I believe that Denon does not allow authorized dealers to sell online. There may be a few exceptions like Crutchfield for instance that only sell at MSRP. Some authorized dealers however may sell you something by phone if you call them and explain to them that there are no local Denon dealers in your area.

 

[hx009]

Originally posted by: wje
I'm reading about more individuals who are getting their 8000s and about 3 people have received January 2002 units. Nobody has posted under the thread yet indicating that they received a unit manufactured outside of January 2002 - but, that could change as more people receive their units. This saddens me - I hope OneCall isn't trying to pull a fast one by dumping these receivers.

I'll give you three guesses for the manufacture date of my unit that arrived today. This is the first and last time I deal with this scumbag company.

 

[futtbucker]

This could be fraud...we will have to wait and see but I think that all of these will be Manufactured January 2002.

Got mine...it's dated January 2002. I don't have speakers yet but when I do if I find the center channel hum I will take it up with OneCall then Amex.

I don't have speakers yet and I was going to buy the 370THX speakers FROM ONECALL...awfully short-sighted of them as a business decicsion if they knew these were defective. Just have to wait and see. Good luck to all who bought these...seriously, not tongue-in-cheek. As a business owner and retailer I would NEVER sell defective merchandise.

And thanks, WJE.

 

[hx009]

Originally posted by: futtbucker
This could be fraud...we will have to wait and see but I think that all of these will be Manufactured January 2002.

Got mine...it's dated January 2002. I don't have speakers yet but when I do if I find the center channel hum I will take it up with OneCall then Amex.

I don't have speakers yet and I was going to buy the 370THX speakers FROM ONECALL...awfully short-sighted of them as a business decicsion if they knew these were defective. Just have to wait and see. Good luck to all who bought these...seriously, not tongue-in-cheek. As a business owner and retailer I would NEVER sell defective merchandise.

And thanks, WJE.

Just curious what you mean by "take it up with them". Are you going to pay the return shipping, or somehow get them or Amex to cover it? I think I'm gonna have to do a chargeback to have my situation handled since I used a regular Mastercard.

 

[Ahmose]

On some other forum people have been calling H/K support (1-800-422-8027) and complaining about the defect.
Maybe if enough of us call, H/K can then act responsibly, own-up to it's defects and replace them for us.
In this day and age this sort of thing should never occur. For myself, i will think long and hard before i ever
buy a H/K product again. Same goes for the crooks at Onecall !

 

[hx009]

Originally posted by: Ahmose
On some other forum people have been calling H/K support (1-800-422-8027) and complaining about the defect.
Maybe if enough of us call, H/K can then act responsibly, own-up to it's defects and replace them for us.
In this day and age this sort of thing should never occur. For myself, i will think long and hard before i ever
buy a H/K product again. Same goes for the crooks at Onecall !

I just got off the phone with OneCall. They have obviously been getting a flood of calls about this issue, because as soon as he pulled up my order he knew exactly what I was calling about before I even said it. The customer service person (didn't catch his name) said they were going through their warehouse weeding out Jan02 units, and that they more than likely wouldn't have enough replacement units to ship to everyone that got a defective AVR8000. He seemed confident that Harmon Kardon would be willing to have the unit repaired locally at an authorized repair center for no charge, being under warranty. I'll be trying that route out tommorrow.

 

[Apex]

Unfortunately, as a retailer (even a big one), you can't really pick and choose. This is the 3rd full batch of receivers Onecall has gotten in from H/K since October (once on the 8th of october, the next on the 20th of November, the third just recently), and H/K is the one that supplies you with what they have. OneCall sells enough of them to completely cycle through their entire inventory practically every month. The issue is getting H/K to send ones produced later.

 

[futtbucker]

I am just giving an opinion...someone (H/K or OneCall) is responsible if we all get January receivers for a great price...more or less a liquidation because of a known defect. Hopefully this is not the case and I will apologize but lets look at Enron, Anderson Accounting, the California energy situation etc., there are boatloads of liers and cheats out there.

OneCall overcharged me $40 on this unit and said they would credit my Amex card the $40. I called today (5 business days later) and they have not yet credited my card. I also asked for my Manheim Steamroller cd....he acted like it was a problem and then said ok, it would be shipped. Again, I have a wait and see attitude.

Does anyone know if I can hook a regular stereo speaker up to the center channel to detect the hum? What would I set the receiver to?

As for Amex, I'm not sure but I think that if you can document the problem, decline payment and let them work with OneCall to get the receiver back you're golden. I find that CC companies will side with the customer if you have a legitimate problem. Don't know about this one though.

We need for everyone who ordered to respond with their manufacturing date. Again, if they sell so many units, it seems unreasonable that we all have receivers from a year ago (manufacturing date), that coincidentally had a manufacturing problem.

 

[futtbucker]

Just one other thought...if you sell alot of stereo receivers and you sell one or two shipments a month, doesn't it make sense that you have heard about the HK AVR 8000 January receiver problem? How about all the January receivers you've sold in the past year? None have been returned?

 

[hx009]

Originally posted by: futtbucker

Does anyone know if I can hook a regular stereo speaker up to the center channel to detect the hum? What would I set the receiver to?

Any speaker that you can hookup should work. So that you can tell the difference, first hook the speaker up to any other jack on the receiver (LF, RF, SL, SR...) and then set the receiver to any mode other than FM (that you don't have a signal on). You should hear NOTHING from the speaker. Then power off the unit, and move your test speaker to the center connector, power the unit back on, and listen. You'll hear the hum coming out if your unit is defective. As people on other boards are saying, you might have to listen for it in a noisy room. However, in quiet room it can most definately be heard "leaking" sound.

 

[hx009]

Originally posted by: futtbucker
Just one other thought...if you sell alot of stereo receivers and you sell one or two shipments a month, doesn't it make sense that you have heard about the HK AVR 8000 January receiver problem? How about all the January receivers you've sold in the past year? None have been returned?

The CSR at OneCall claimed they "just recently found out" about the defect. Take that as you will.

 

[futtbucker]

CONFIRMED! When I hook the speakers up to the L + R channels...not a sound. Hook one up to the center channel and you get a distinct electronic buzz.

First of all if H/K and or OneCall are reputable they will fix this problem...not refer you to an authorized repair service. These were defective and were known by someone that they were defective. We need to find out how many people got in on this deal, possibly contact the Washington State Attorney General, definitely go to resellersratings.com and if they don't fix the problem downgrade them.

 

[Ahmose]

I got the package from Onecall today... Opened up the box hoping it won't be from the Jan2002 defective batch.
Unfortunatly it was JAN 2002.... damn it..
So hooked it up (with little hope that maybe, somehow mine was OK) but it's confirmed.. the dreaded BUZZ
No Manheim Steamroller either :-(

I'm still amazed that H/K is not doing anything about this problem, it's their flagship receiver for pete's sake !!
As far as i'm concerned this is probably the last H/K product that i will buy ...

 

[futtbucker]

Please don't fall for the "I'm sure HK will have an authorized repair shop fix the problem."
It's their problem not yours.

I am not a lawyer and I do not know about Washington State but usually there is an "IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY - Warranty that guarantees that goods are reasonably fit for their ordinary purpose." There is a breach of that warranty and so a legal recourse to abrogate the contract of the sale if the sale was made of a product that does not perform for the ordinary purpose...which is to give breathtaking stereo output. If it doesn't because of a defect then there is no contract and NO SALE. End of story...here is your 50lb POS, please come and get it.

Oh, I have some light bulbs that use NO ENERGY EVER, for $19.99 you to can have a beautiful glass globe that you screw into a light socket and it uses NO ENERGY EVER. IT also never produces light so please use during the day only.

 

[T2T III]

Some additional comments that I have added:

## Please Note: This deal is dead. However, many who have received their H/K 8000 receivers from OneCall are getting those that were manufactured on Janaury 2002. The receivers that were manufactured during this time period have a very distinct hum that appears while using the center channel fors listening. Some recourses to resolve this situation are as follows:

1) Contact OneCall and order a replacement receiver. The down-side to this option is that they could ship you another receiver that was manufactured during January 2002 - - and you have to pay the shipping to get the bad receiver back to them.

2) Search for a local H/K authorized repair center. Apparently, H/K has several repair centers that are within driving distances for most people. This should save on shipping charges. The only down-falls to this option are: a) Does H/K know how to resolve this situation? b) Are you willing to live without your new receiver for a few weeks with the Holidays upon us?

Personally, Here's some actions that I would take to ensure the situation gets resolved (these are based on my personal experiences with various companies):

1) Contact OneCall and demand that they send out a courier to pick up the "problematic" receiver and ship it back at *their* expense. While OneCall couldn't have known the exact manufacturing date of the receivers because that data is contained on the back panel of the receiver itself, they should have had access to the serial numbers. Certainly, the serial numbers are properly displayed on the outside of the box. Plus, H/K should be able to authenticate which range of serial numbers fall within the manfacturing dates of January 2002. With this option, have OneCall give you a refund of the purchase price and move onto another product.

2) Contact H/K. Demand that they replace the receiver with a *corrected* version. Certainly, H/K - without a doubt - should be very, very aware of this problem at this point in time. If they deny there are any issues, then they have B.S. up to their eyebrows. This should provide you with a new receiver without the "hiss" issues and H/K should cover all of the expenses for shipping.

In my experience, having to take a receiver to the repair center because of a defect that was present right out of the box is total crap. When you purchase something, you have reasonable expectations that it should work properly. Yes, sometimes, items do arrive DOA, but this is not a DOA issue. This is an issue that has been talked about for several months. Certainly, H/K has had enough opportunity to issue a recall for the affected products, but didn't do sh!t.

##

 

[futtbucker]

Harman/Kardon...is this your 'flagship" or "sinking ship"?

 

[Greg03]

>>I am not a lawyer and I do not know about Washington State but usually there is an "IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY - Warranty that guarantees that goods are reasonably fit for their ordinary purpose." There is a breach of that warranty and so a legal recourse to abrogate the contract of the sale if the sale was made of a product that does not perform for the ordinary purpose...which is to give breathtaking stereo output. If it doesn't because of a defect then there is no contract and NO SALE. End of story...here is your 50lb POS, please come and get it.


From Uniform Commercial Code:

§ 2-314. Implied Warranty: Merchantability; Usage of Trade.

(1) Unless excluded or modified (Section 2-316), a warranty that the goods shall be merchantable is implied in a contract for their sale if the seller is a merchant with respect to goods of that kind. Under this section the serving for value of food or drink to be consumed either on the premises or elsewhere is a sale.

(2) Goods to be merchantable must be at least such as

(a) pass without objection in the trade under the contract description; and
(b) in the case of fungible goods, are of fair average quality within the description; and
(c) are fit for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are used; and
(d) run, within the variations permitted by the agreement, of even kind, quality and quantity within each unit and among all units involved; and
(e) are adequately contained, packaged, and labeled as the agreement may require; and
(f) conform to the promise or affirmations of fact made on the container or label if any.
(3) Unless excluded or modified (Section 2-316) other implied warranties may arise from course of dealing or usage of trade.

REMEDY:

§ 2-714. Buyer's Damages for Breach in Regard to Accepted Goods.

(1) Where the buyer has accepted goods and given notification (subsection (3) of Section 2-607) he may recover as damages for any non-conformity of tender the loss resulting in the ordinary course of events from the seller's breach as determined in any manner which is reasonable.

(2) The measure of damages for breach of warranty is the difference at the time and place of acceptance between the value of the goods accepted and the value they would have had if they had been as warranted, unless special circumstances show proximate damages of a different amount.

(3) In a proper case any incidental and consequential damages under the next section may also be recovered.

OR

§ 2-608. Revocation of Acceptance in Whole or in Part.

(1) The buyer may revoke his acceptance of a lot or commercial unit whose non-conformity substantially impairs its value to him if he has accepted it

(a) on the reasonable assumption that its non-conformity would be cured and it has not been seasonably cured; or
(b) without discovery of such non-conformity if his acceptance was reasonably induced either by the difficulty of discovery before acceptance or by the seller's assurances.
(2) Revocation of acceptance must occur within a reasonable time after the buyer discovers or should have discovered the ground for it and before any substantial change in condition of the goods which is not caused by their own defects. It is not effective until the buyer notifies the seller of it.

(3) A buyer who so revokes has the same rights and duties with regard to the goods involved as if he had rejected them.

 

[blahblah99]

I didn't get on this deal, but from what the original poster described, it sounds like a ground problem to me on the center channel, as if its speaker output on the ground side isn't properly grounded.