[H] ASUS GeForce GTX 660 DirectCU II Video Card Review

[sontin]

Better cooling adds more to the price making the gtx6xx cards even less worth the money...

The Gigabyte GTX670 cost 20€ more in germany and is as fast as a GTX680.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

The Gigabyte GTX670 cost 20€ more in germany and is as fast as a GTX680.

And how much does a 7950 cost that's overclocked to be as fast as a gtx680?

 

[SirPauly]

IF that is what a gamer desires -- buy a HD 7950 -- over-clock it and have fun. No one is forcing anyone to buy a GTX 680 -- and no one is stopping anyone to buy an AMD HD 7950.

 

[SirPauly]

Don't forget that GK106 has 1/6 SMX ready to be unleashed the moment the situation AND/OR yields are appropriate.

I didn't know this.

 

[tviceman]

Don't forget that GK106 has 1/6 SMX ready to be unleashed the moment the situation AND/OR yields are appropriate.

I am 99% sure this incorrect and that gk106 has a maximum of 5 smx units.

 

[f1sherman]

what commands your certainty?

can you remeber when was the last time (if ever) that NV haf odd number of SM in full chip?

simetry allows for some sensible arangaments and grouping that are impossible in odd SMX config

 

[antihelten]

can you remeber when was the last time (if ever) that NV haf odd number of SM in full chip?

simetry allows for some sensible arangaments and grouping that are impossible in odd SMX config

GK110 has 15 SMXs and is an almost perfectly square chip, judging by die shots. Although of course that hasn't been released yet.

 

[tviceman]

what commands your certainty?

can you remeber when was the last time (if ever) that NV haf odd number of SM in full chip?

simetry allows for some sensible arangaments and grouping that are impossible in odd SMX config

According to the anandtech review, it turns out I was right.

 

[RussianSensation]

Sure it does! It creates more choice and value for gamers. Without strong competition and choice, gamers may still be seeing HD 7870's for 349 dollars.

The choice part is true but implying that we'd be seeing 7870 for $350 isn't. HD7850/7870 cards experienced price drops months before GTX660Ti/660 launched. Go check Newegg's camelegg. :biggrin:

Also, that doesn't answer why it was worth waiting 7 months for this card and not enjoying the HD7850/7870 card as early as March 3-5th. You are assigning no penalty for the opportunity cost of waiting or no value for enjoying the HD7850 OC card for 7 months with similar performance.

Right now from a price/performance point of view 660 adds nothing vs. the 7870:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_660_Direct_Cu_II/27.html

Here is HD7870 for $210 CDN

Pretty amazing how you keep defending NV this whole generation. When you bought your 670, NV was the best choice but since that 1 quarter, they lost both price/performance and single-GPU performance and haven't done anything to drop prices to get themselves back into contention. Every card in their line is overpriced right now besides the occasional GTX670 sale.

Since the $400-500 GTX670/680 launch (this was excellent execution by NV with good drivers out of the gate and better price/performance), NV has flopped both the launches of 660Ti and now 660. 670/680 brought more performance/$, while 660Ti/660 are barely matching what AMD has had for months.

IF that is what a gamer desires -- buy a HD 7950 -- over-clock it and have fun. No one is forcing anyone to buy a GTX 680 -- and no one is stopping anyone to buy an AMD HD 7950.

SirP, you have been saying this like we are forcing someone to buy a 7950 OC over the 680. We are not. If you make $X an hour that makes GTX680 very cheap or just want the fastest NV card, by all means. What we are talking about is value here. If we all could easily buy the 3960X, we wouldn't recommend people save $450 and get the 3930K instead.

Right now HD7950 is what GTX460 was in terms of overclocking. It offers unbeatable bang for the buck until 670 (or 660Ti) drop in price. You can now buy almost 2x 7950s for the price of a single 680. That's remarkable. The last time this happened was HD6950 Unlocked in CF vs. $500 GTX580.

With HD7950's dropping to $280 and HD7870 can often goes on sale from $200-225, NV still offers worse price/performance against AMD's aging HD7000 series lineup.

 

[SirPauly]

The choice part is true but implying that we'd be seeing 7870 for $350 isn't. HD7850/7870 cards experienced price drops months before GTX660Ti/660 launched. Go check Newegg's camelegg.

Imho,

HD 7870 had adjustments with strong competition from the GTX 670 -- AMD adjusted pricing on the HD 7970, HD 7950 and HD 7870.

 

[SirPauly]

The choice part is true but implying that we'd be seeing 7870 for $350 isn't. HD7850/7870 cards experienced price drops months before GTX660Ti/660 launched. Go check Newegg's camelegg. :biggrin:

Also, that doesn't answer why it was worth waiting 7 months for this card and not enjoying the HD7850/7870 card as early as March 3-5th. You are assigning no penalty for the opportunity cost of waiting or no value for enjoying the HD7850 OC card for 7 months with similar performance.

Right now from a price/performance point of view 660 adds nothing vs. the 7870:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_660_Direct_Cu_II/27.html

Here is HD7870 for $210 CDN

Pretty amazing how you keep defending NV this whole generation. When you bought your 670, NV was the best choice but since that 1 quarter, they lost both price/performance and single-GPU performance and haven't done anything to drop prices to get themselves back into contention. Every card in their line is overpriced right now besides the occasional GTX670 sale.

Since the $400-500 GTX670/680 launch (this was excellent execution by NV with good drivers out of the gate and better price/performance), NV has flopped both the launches of 660Ti and now 660. 670/680 brought more performance/$, while 660Ti/660 are barely matching what AMD has had for months.



SirP, you have been saying this like we are forcing someone to buy a 7950 OC over the 680. We are not. If you make $X an hour that makes GTX680 very cheap or just want the fastest NV card, by all means. What we are talking about is value here. If we all could easily buy the 3960X, we wouldn't recommend people save $450 and get the 3930K instead.

Right now HD7950 is what GTX460 was in terms of overclocking. It offers unbeatable bang for the buck until 670 (or 660Ti) drop in price. You can now buy almost 2x 7950s for the price of a single 680. That's remarkable. The last time this happened was HD6950 Unlocked in CF vs. $500 GTX580.

With HD7950's dropping to $280 and HD7870 can often goes on sale from $200-225, NV still offers worse price/performance against AMD's aging HD7000 series lineup.

AMD has always had impressive price/performance and compelling choice for gamers over-all. Personally allow the market place to decide what is unbeatable.

 

[Hypertag]

Also, that doesn't answer why it was worth waiting 7 months for this card and not enjoying the HD7850/7870 card as early as March 3-5th. You are assigning no penalty for the opportunity cost of waiting or no value for enjoying the HD7850 OC card for 7 months with similar performance.

A 7850 with a good cooler would have been $300 on launch. Even with a sane overclock, it offers performance essentially identical to the GTX 570. If you want to be technical, you could say it offers inferior performance compared to the 2.5 GB GTX 570. Why aren't we giving the GTX 570 credit for offering that level of performance since November of 2010?

AMD doesn't get bonus credit for launching a 7850 early when it offered worse performance per dollar compared to the 6950's price before the 7850 launch.

 

[sontin]

Since the $400-500 GTX670/680 launch (this was excellent execution by NV with good drivers out of the gate and better price/performance), NV has flopped both the launches of 660Ti and now 660. 670/680 brought more performance/$, while 660Ti/660 are barely matching what AMD has had for months.

What are you talking? The first price drop of the 7870 happened in mid july: $349 -> $299. One day after the launch of the GTX660TI AMD dropped the price again and gives Sleeping Dogs to every new card. How was the launch of the GTX660TI a flop?

 

[SirPauly]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6175/amd-radeon-hd-7800-series-price-cuts-new-game-bundle-inbound

 

[pwoz]

A 7850 with a good cooler would have been $300 on launch.

Just as reference, I bought a MSI twin forzr for $240 at launch. I don't know what you consider a good cooler, but it runs up to 1200mhz if I want to up the voltage.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Personally allow the market place to decide

Please put this in your sig.

 

[RussianSensation]

What are you talking? The first price drop of the 7870 happened in mid july: $349 -> $299. One day after the launch of the GTX660TI AMD dropped the price again and gives Sleeping Dogs to every new card. How was the launch of the GTX660TI a flop?

GTX660Ti launched August 16th

HD7870 & 7950 were available January 31-March 5, 2012. All AMD had to do was lower prices to match the 660Ti and until then NV had no competing 28nm cards. That means NV was late by 6-7 months and that's why this launch is a flop. Because of NV's terrible 28nm mid-range launch execution, AMD got away with high prices and we as consumers suffered. Can't put the blame on AMD here since NV was still selling 570/580 cards for $280-350. Had NV done what was expected of them and rolled out their 28nm desktop line-up on time, consumers wouldn't have to wait 6-7 months for good price/performance. :thumbsdown:

Being late in GPUs is not acceptable unless you offer more performance/$ or higher performance or more features that matter (OCing, more VRAM, etc.) ---> See Fermi GTX470/480 generation. Most of us gave NV a pass for being late 6 months with Fermi since the cards were fast, good overclockers, offered stronger DX11 performance, more VRAM. GTX660Ti is none of those things. It's not faster, not a better overclocker, doesn't have faster DX11 performance, doesn't have more VRAM and is not cheaper than the 7950 is today. When GTX470 launched it was $349 and genuinely offered faster performance OCed than the 5870 that cost $369. That's value despite being 6 months late. GTX660Ti failed completely against an overclocked 7950 and offered worst price/performance against a 7870.

NV had 2.5+ quarters to mount a card against the 7870. Big deal. Tech gets cheaper and faster over time.

That would be similar if the entire GTX700 series shows up 6-7 months before AMD drops HD8750/8770/8850/8870. That would be a total failure imo on AMD's part. Can't have a double standard. Late = Late. AMD 7850/7870 went completely uncontested for 6+ months and this shouldn't have happened if NV launched GTX660/660Ti on time. Also, it's very easy to price GTX660Ti at $299 and 660 at $229 since you have seen your competitor's entire price and performance metrics for 6 months. It's more like NV had no choice but to price 660/660Ti low since they are so late.

 

[sontin]

GTX660Ti launched August 16th

HD7870 & 7950 were available January 31-March 5, 2012.

7870 was launched in march, that's 6 months ago. MSRP for the GTX660 is $299 with borderlands. MSRP for the 7950 was $449 without a game until april. Really, that was a deal!

All AMD had to do was lower prices to match the 660Ti and until then NV had no competing 28nm cards. That means NV was late by 6-7 months and that's why this launch is a flop. Because of NV's terrible 28nm mid-range launch execution, AMD got away with high prices and we as consumers suffered. Can't put the blame on AMD here since NV was still selling 570/580 cards for $280-350. Had NV done what was expected of them and rolled out their 28nm desktop line-up on time, consumers wouldn't have to wait 6-7 months for good price/performance. :thumbsdown:

nVidia was late? Hm, they sold every 28nm chip to their customers and had no supply for GK106. But that something you ignored and you will ignore...

Being late in GPUs is not acceptable unless you offer more performance/$ or higher performance or more features ---> See Fermi GTX470/480 generation. GTX660Ti is non of these things. It's not faster, not better overclocker, not cheaper than the 7950 and 660 isn't better than the 7870 either.

NV had 2.5+ quarters to mount a card against the 7870. Big deal. Tech gets cheaper over time.

MSRP of 7870 in march: $349
MSRP of GTX660 in september: $229

The 7870 cost 52% more and is 5-10% faster. But then i don't make stuff up so i think you right that the GTX660 is not offering a better "performance/$ " than the 7870 6 months ago...

 

[chimaxi83]

7870 was launched in march, that's 6 months ago. MSRP for the GTX660 is $299 with borderlands. MSRP for the 7950 was $449 without a game until april. Really, that was a deal!

nVidia was late? Hm, they sold every 28nm chip to their customers and had no supply for GK106. But that something you ignored and you will ignore...

MSRP of 7870 in march: $349
MSRP of GTX660 in september: $229

The 7870 cost 52% more and is 5-10% faster. But then i don't make stuff up so i think you right that the GTX660 is not offering a better "performance/$ " than the 7870 6 months ago...

Lol, do you think Father Nvidia would've charged $229 for this card if the situation were reversed? Don't lie to yourself when you're reaching for the answer. AMD had the market to themselves, they took advantage. If you're a businessman, for example, and you don't do the same, you won't be a businessman for very long.

 

[sontin]

Lol, do you think Father Nvidia would've charged $229 for this card if the situation were reversed? Don't lie to yourself when you're reaching for the answer. AMD had the market to themselves, they took advantage. If you're a businessman, for example, and you don't do the same, you won't be a businessman for very long.

Who cares?
AMD overpriced their cards and nobody bought them. Now we are back to "normal" prices from both sides.

 

[chimaxi83]

Who cares?
AMD overpriced their cards and nobody bought them. Now we are back to "normal" prices from both sides.

"Who cares" are the people whining about how much AMD charged when they had the market to themselves, obviously.

 

[sontin]

"Who cares" are the people whining about how much AMD charged when they had the market to themselves, obviously.

And the people were right.

It's more ironic that there are people who putting the launch date and the actual MSRP in the same sentence. :thumbsup:

 

[f1sherman]

Being late in GPUs is not acceptable unless you offer more performance/$ or higher performance or more features that matter (OCing, more VRAM, etc.)

Every single of NV launches offered exactly that. More perf/$ and more features than AMD.
That is except GTX 660 launch, when AMD leadership finally learned the lesson, and positioned it's competing cards for the price parity.

And what do you mean Being late in GPUs is not acceptable?

Late compared to...? To internal schedule, to someones wishlist?
Also not acceptable by whom and WFT are we suppose to do?
Go on public strike, burn the closest embassy?

not acceptable...jeez

You are preaching AMD supremacy here for the last couple of months,
yet AMD is the one that keeps lowering their prices. Care to explain that?

 

[thilanliyan]

AMD is the one that keeps lowering their prices. Care to explain that?

Since AMD launched their cards first with no competition, they would definitely price it according to what was out in the market (ie. if their cards are faster than the competition they would price higher). Now that there IS competition, they have to match what nV is charging according to where it is on the performance ladder. So yes, AMD is the one lowering prices, because they were early with their cards. That's how it has always worked.

 

[Olikan]

Late compared to...? To internal schedule, to someones wishlist?
Also not acceptable by whom and WFT are we suppose to do?
Go on public strike, burn the closest embassy?

late compared to AMD....

what we do? we can buy amd cards...it will force nvidia drop it's prices...than amd will have to drop....and then nvidia will have to drop (and so on)