[H]ard|OCP: AMD CrossFireX Drivers - Opportunity Lost

[ViRGE]

Kyle has been hammering AMD over their struggling CFX driver support (and he's not wrong), so this isn't new. With that said it would help his case immensely to reference something other than STO's lousy early-beta DX11 implementation.

 

[Obsoleet]

LOL, what utter nonsense. The card was only hard launched like a week ago and these guys are whining about it being a failure when newer drivers haven't even been released. Give me a break.

Exactly. I'd love to have one. They can always lose 50% selling their problem to me.

He said, It could have been worse, the release drivers could've caused it to blow up. :snicker:

In this case, Twitboy was almost right.
Almost on par with Nvidia's WHQL releases.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/warning-nvidia-19675-drivers-can-kill-your-graphics-card/7551


Re: "Twitboy" - please don't call your fellow forum members imaginative names. Play nice, fellas.

Moderator jvroig

 

[Madcatatlas]

Someone else shares my belief of ATs bias toward Nvidia. Interesting. And for the record [h] is anything but biased towards eithet amd or nvidia. Their problem is that they can be bought to plug aib cards. Like galaxy stuff.


But really, i doubt anyone is really bothered. The 7970 was on average 30 faster than the 580 msi lightning, one of the highest oced 580s, in STO in dx9, that will EASILY translate to the same numbers when they patch for this failure mmo that is now going free to play

 

[Jacky60]

Thanks for posting this Notty. I've been a supporter of AMD (well the ATI side of it) as I've been very happy with their price and performance for a long time but I have to reluctantly admit that their driver support seems to have gone from OK to pisspoor. Skyrim is a very annoying case in point. I have two 6990's and would love to download HD texture mods but as AMD haven't yet released a driver that employs all four of my GPU's I haven't done so. This is 8 weeks after its release and still no sign of them. What in the world do they think they're doing if they completely fail to support those who buy their most expensive products.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to get back into bed with the green team when I next buy GPU's. I can't for the life of me understand why their driver team can't get drivers together before these games launch or soon afterwards instead of after everyone has finished playing the game.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

From personal experience my last few upgrades included AMD crossfire, back when I left my 8800GTX I moved to 2x 4870s in crossfire and AMD provided good crossfire support back then.

However over the years that dwindled somewhat and I moved to a 5970 which is a dual GPU card and that had OK drivers for a while but in the last year of its life support had become absolutely terrible, often waiting weeks or months after games have launched before they were playable.

I sympathise with what they have to say, I eventually ditched my 5970 for a GTX 580 because I was so fed up with the problems. I expect support to be there for all mainstream games on release day. It's completely unacceptable to drop money on 2 or more high end GPUs and then buy a game and not have both of those things worth together correctly for weeks, what's the point in buying on release day if you can't even play?!?

Anyway not going back to multi-GPU with AMD, they just don't care enough about getting support in place before games launch, they're too hands off compared to Nvidias TWIMTBP. it doesn't surprise me in the least to see the 7xxx range launching with bad crossfire support and I wouldn't expect that to improve any time soon.

 

[-Slacker-]

I'm confused. Did [h] actually do a crossfire review? Because the only benchmark I can see is the BF3 one at 25x16, and it's scaling pretty well...

 

[GaiaHunter]

Crossfire requires additional drivers (0.18MB download) called "CAPs" or "Crossfire Active Profiles" most of the time.

I know about CAP or Catalyst Application Profiles.

I also know you can install the most recent CAP on top of an older driver version.

What I don't know is if there is something preventing one installing the most recent CAP on top of the 7970 drive.

[H] doesn't seem to be asking for a CAP but instead for a driver.

 

[blackened23]

I know about CAP or Catalyst Application Profiles.

I also know you can install the most recent CAP on top of an older driver version.

What I don't know is if there is something preventing one installing the most recent CAP on top of the 7970 drive.

[H] doesn't seem to be asking for a CAP but instead for a driver.

The web driver on AMD's website does not work with CFX on the 7970. You have to use the driver that comes bundled with the installation CD. Kyle seems to imply that CFX doesn't work at all, which is not the case. CFX definitely works. I've found that most games that I have personally tested are fine in crossfire (with near 100% scaling in dual gpu compared to single): Metro 2033, Crysis 2, crysis, Dragon Age 2, WoW, Borderlands, Shogun 2. However, Civ 5 has some slight issues, and Batman: AC scales in Eyefinity but doesn't scale well at 1440p.

Now some games don't have proper scaling or CAP profiles, thats a different issue. Hopefully this article lights a fire under AMD to fix any niggling crossfire issues, they had a bad track record with cayman in that regard. That can't happen again or it will indeed be a wasted opportunity.

 

[Concillian]

Its known that [H] is always trying to bash AMD and constantly spreads misinformation.

Do people really believe that [H] "is always trying to bash AMD"?

I mean they were one of the few sites who were pointing out that AMD cards seemed to scale better at multi-monitor pixel counts last generation. Not many sites were as PRO-AMD as [H] was six months ago, now they're always trying to bash AMD? People have short memories.

 

[Stuka87]

Thanks for posting this Notty. I've been a supporter of AMD (well the ATI side of it) as I've been very happy with their price and performance for a long time but I have to reluctantly admit that their driver support seems to have gone from OK to pisspoor. Skyrim is a very annoying case in point. I have two 6990's and would love to download HD texture mods but as AMD haven't yet released a driver that employs all four of my GPU's I haven't done so. This is 8 weeks after its release and still no sign of them. What in the world do they think they're doing if they completely fail to support those who buy their most expensive products.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to get back into bed with the green team when I next buy GPU's. I can't for the life of me understand why their driver team can't get drivers together before these games launch or soon afterwards instead of after everyone has finished playing the game.

Out of curiosity, why would you need four GPU's to use high res textures? When it comes to big textures, video memory is the issue, not GPU power. And running in SLI/CF does not add ANY video memory. You have the same amount that you would with a single 6990. That game is so CPU bound, I HIGHLY doubt you would need dual 6990's to run it.

 

[GaiaHunter]

The web driver on AMD's website does not work with CFX on the 7970. You have to use the driver that comes bundled with the installation CD. Kyle seems to imply that CFX doesn't work at all, which is not the case. CFX definitely works. I've found that most games that I have personally tested are fine in crossfire (with near 100% scaling in dual gpu compared to single): Metro 2033, Crysis 2, crysis, Dragon Age 2, WoW, Borderlands, Shogun 2. However, Civ 5 has some slight issues, and Batman: AC scales in Eyefinity but doesn't scale well at 1440p.

I'm talking about the CAP not the driver (although it is silly if the web driver doesn't allow XF).

Just to clarify - does the CAP (the 12.11 CAP) on the website installs or not on the 7970? Because it seems to me the CAP is the same for all the series and OS'es.

Now some games don't have proper scaling or CAP profiles, thats a different issue. Hopefully this article lights a fire under AMD to fix any niggling crossfire issues, they had a bad track record with cayman in that regard. That can't happen again or it will indeed be a wasted opportunity.

Shouldn't the 12.1 allow custom profiles? Hopefully that alleviate some of the problems with games without profiles at launch.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I've always thought of [H] as AMD bias, with their test suite consisting of texture based Gaming Evolved games with higher than typical resolutions and multi screen setups.

Did that somehow change between last year and the release of the 7970? They also were gingers when it came to their Bulldozer release review, testing it in gaming situations where clear gpu bottlenecks were present.

Perhaps they got tired of getting called out for it, because the bulldozer multi gpu review that came out later on shattered any illusions their initial review may have created. Or maybe they're just tried of broken drivers making it hard for them to open up their test suite to include newer games since they can't as AMD doesn't have CF profiles for them?

 

[Will Robinson]

[H] usually gets it right in a "Which is faster/better"? article and seems to be equally harsh on NVDA or AMD when they want to be.
Quite often Kyle is full of praise for a good product so I trust his site pretty much I guess.
He seems to turn the flame thrower on fairly early if he is displeased however.
LOL at Notty posting another troll thread topic tho I have to say it's truly impressive how you report back from around the Net on any AMD shortcomings so punctually.

 

[AdamK47]

I've had my fair share of problems since getting Tri-Fire HD7970s. Almost to the point where I wanted to return them and put the GTX 580s back in. The majority of the problems related to CrossFire I can solve, but it requires manual intervention. The first problem that really bothered me was the micro-stutter. It was far worse than anything I've seen from Nvidia. I only play with vsync enabled which made things worse for CrossFire. Locking the framerate to 60 using MSI Afterburner while having vsync enabled fixed most of it. The multi-threading the drivers use has problems with Hyper-Threading. More stuttering can be seen with it enabled. I was also able to fix this using a registry hack. Another problem deals with the CrossFire profiles. It seems like AMD focuses on performance first and compatibility second. I've seen default profiles where there were unacceptable levels of flashing and texture issues. If it weren't for the drivers finally having the ability to change the CrossFire profile, I wouldn't even had considered getting the cards. Changing the CrossFire profiles to something else has been good at fixing a lot of problems. The whole process is a bit clunky though. On a positive note, 2560x1600 plays extremely smooth now in everything I've tried so far.

 

[SirPauly]

Not a big deal to me based on newer generations, when first released have growing pains and drivers need time to mature. To be expected with early adoption, to me.

I like Kyle and his strong opinions for or against AMD or nVidia. May not agree with some of them but one can make the case that Kyle is more pro-gamer than pro-nVidia or pro-AMD.

 

[AdamK47]

The web driver on AMD's website does not work with CFX on the 7970. You have to use the driver that comes bundled with the installation CD. Kyle seems to imply that CFX doesn't work at all, which is not the case. CFX definitely works. I've found that most games that I have personally tested are fine in crossfire (with near 100% scaling in dual gpu compared to single): Metro 2033, Crysis 2, crysis, Dragon Age 2, WoW, Borderlands, Shogun 2. However, Civ 5 has some slight issues, and Batman: AC scales in Eyefinity but doesn't scale well at 1440p.

Now some games don't have proper scaling or CAP profiles, thats a different issue. Hopefully this article lights a fire under AMD to fix any niggling crossfire issues, they had a bad track record with cayman in that regard. That can't happen again or it will indeed be a wasted opportunity.

I'm using the driver from AMDs website and CrossFire is definitely working.

 

[notty22]

Couple things. It almost seems like Kyle with input in his forums, is implying AMD asked him to hold off on a 7970 crossfire article. Maybe knowing his style for including eyefinity/crossfire testing, it would expose to many bugs ?

Can't help but wonder if this prediction fit's.

AMD cuts 10% of workforce, leaves one group untouched

This is going to hurt a lot

According to Icrontic, the list of ‘optimized’ employees is going to hurt. Carrell Killebrew, the man credited with Eyefinity, probably the largest advantage AMD has in the graphics market right now, VP of corporate strategy Patrick Moorhead, and many others. Add to this the brain drain that has happened over the last few months, people like Dr. Gamal Refai-Ahmed, David Hoff, and dozens of others, you have to wonder who is left.

 

[Crap Daddy]

Im shocked, not BID red... sighs..

sorry for your issues the gurus help know about AMD. thx gl

Is it just me or tweakboy seems stoned in most of his/hers posts?

 

[AdamK47]

I just want to know why he tells everyone good luck in all his posts.

 

[GaiaHunter]

I'm using the driver from AMDs website and CrossFire is definitely working.

Just out of curiosity, have you installed the 11.12 CAP2 available on the website (for 6xxx, 5xxx, etc, series)?
What CAP are you using? Ty.

(I'm not trying to say that your problems would be solved by this, just asking out of curiosity as per my previous posts on this thread)

 

[AdamK47]

Yes

 

[Nintendesert]

I'm of the belief that if you ship it it should work. I understand it doesn't work that way and there are many SLI/CF issues. It's why I built a single 570 system vs. SLI 560. It's a hassle too many times.

It's also why I want the Kepler (rumor Feb! WOO!!) or the 7950 without CF or SLI.

As for the review, for whatever reason he had issues. I'm sure he's not the only one.

 

[GaiaHunter]

So I guess this is more a sensationalist article, exaggerating things a bit to demand attention (which is ok, since companies should get their products working properly).

If I had spent $1100 or $1650 on cards I would also be annoyed if they didn't work properly on something I wanted to play (I was even pissed off with the fact that Dead Space, a game that cost me €2.5 on steam forced me to unplug my joystick and gamepad or otherwise have the webcam spin uncontrollably).

But working with problems is different from not working at all.

 

[lavaheadache]

Yes

what games are you seeing microstutter in specifically? Everything? I only ask because I discovered something last night with Skyrim. I only have one card but this maybe somethiing that pertains to your experience.

I have 2 monitors side by side. A 120hz 1920x1080 screen and a 2560x1600 one.

I was trying to figure out why no matter what I did on the 30 incher I was getting hitching all over the place, it would smooth out in some areas but in others it was like I was experiencing Multi Gpu microstutter. Changing AA did nothing, lowered res to 1080, changed cables, tried INI tweaks, nothing seemed to help.

I did not have this trouble on my other monitor....... until I lowered the refresh rate to 60hz and bammmmmm. Exactly the same experience as the U3011. It seems as though 120hz(or shall I say higher than 60) has a profound impact in Skyrim. I have done mucho research and I think it is because 120hz allows for something like 8ms refreshes and 60 hz forces you into 16ms refreshes. With a game like Skyrim that is prone to frame inconsistencies to begin with, 8ms(or any low frame interval) allows frames transition smoother rather than having to fit into a longer frequency.

I could be wayyy off as I'm no expert, just an enthusiast looking to have the best experience possible.


Adamk47, do you by any chance have a 120hz monitor at your disposal? I really feel like 120hz monitors may be beneficial to crossfire/sli users.


Edit----

I almost want to install oblivion again to see if 120hz makes that game smooth since I never seemed to be able to get rid of the hitching feeling in that game.

I can confirm that Rage's horrible screen tearing almost goes away when using 120hz over 60. It is still there but immensly reduced.

 

[SunnyD]

New Card + New Drivers = Kyle's usual bullshit.