Guy at UCLA computer lab gets tasered (now with youtube video!!)

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: Syringer

Originally posted by: cessna152
Why didn't they just handcuff him and haul him out? There were like 3 cops around him. I mean, if he started swinging than yea, mace/taze him.

Seems like they escalated force a little too quickly.

Shoulda just picked his butt up and kicked him out on the curb. Probably would have made less of a commotion too.

Once you get physical with someone there's no telling what can happen. He might've swung back, which would've resulted in the cops getting physical, and breaking an arm or something. Tasering makes sure nothing physical ever takes place and no bones will break.

I'd rather risk broken bones than risk life and death, using tasers is overrated and stupid, too many people have died from taser use. It's a new toy in police departments and they want to use it, seems like they now use it in every situation possible.

Got a speeding ticket? Resist arrest? TASeR!
Jay walking? Running away? Taser!
Littering, and not picking it up? TASER!

:roll:

 

[OCNewbie]

Remember that black chick that refused to get out of her car after being pulled over for speeding? She wasn't a threat to anybody and that cop still tased her. In either instance though, both citizens refused to comply. If you're causing enough trouble to warrant a call to the police to handle the situation and you still refuse to comply when they get there, what are they supposed to do? Treat it like a hostage situation, call in specialists to try to reason with the person being a moron? C'mon, how can you really have sympathy for idiots like this guy that are only behaving the way they are to take some sort of pointless stand. Some people have zero respect for cops and authority.

 

[Sunbird]

"Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!"


EDIT: And what wimpy police, if he doesnt stand up then pick him up and carry him out, I think these cops need more and better training...

 

[VooDooAddict]

After seeing the police dept's official response and watching the video...

I think these officers would have tazed Ghandi.

The man was using what in the past has been described as peaceful resistance. He was not fighting back he was simply not walking. (He could have been fighting back before the video camera had gotten to him.) If two officers can't carry a limp man to a squad car then something is wrong. If he was struggling ... well that's what the tazer is for to help protect both the officers and the perpetrator in such situation. In this case it didn't appear that the man was struggling.

If the man was struggling but doing it such a way as to not be very overt about it ... and in such a way that the crowd gathered didn't notice ... then I feel bad for the officers doing thier job ... as the video is very incriminating.

I have no idea if the initial tazing was required or nessesary. It's clear from the video that the subsequent tazes appear completely unnessesary.

 

[KeypoX]

cops suck ...

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: KeypoX

these cops suck ...

in all fairness

 

[dew042]

I don't think anybody involved looks good in this whole situation. Perhaps it will bring some awareness on both sides.

dew.

 

[Dessert Tears]

Originally posted by: Flatscan
pg22 (and anyone else familiar with Powell), can you describe the ID check policy after 11pm? I've read that it's long-standing, announced over the PA, and everyone's (not just a random selection) ID is checked.

Answer:

Originally posted by: Fred Massabki on Facebook
Having attended UCLA I am knowledgable of the Powell Library policy which is that after 11 p.m. you have to be ready to show your student ID to remain. A sign is posted at the door at all times and after 11 p.m. the entrance is obstructed to create a checkpoint. As a senior, this student should have been aware of the policy. As such, the CSOs (who montior the library after 11 p.m. and are ususally student employees) have the right to ask for ID. In fact, every time I've stayed in Powell past 11, I have been asked for my ID as have those around me whether white, black, Asian, Latino, Middle-Eastern (which I am) or whatever. To make it easier to check for ID, access within Powell after 11 p.m. is restricted to one large study room and the computer lab (CLICC) where the incident occurred. This student was trying to make a statement/be a martyr as evidenced by his Patriot Act taunt. His lawyer even stated that he had his UCLA ID on his person. This is a simple matter of disorderly conduct on the part of the student followed by excessive force on the part of the UCPD. Race has nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by: Flatscan

Originally posted by: cessna152
The more and more I watch that video. Damn that kid has a NICE camera phone? It really does feel like it was almost staged or setup and the police stepped right into the trap? Does anyone know who took the video and if that student has any ties to the guy getting arrested?

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Still, I second that the most noteworthy thing about this story is the quality of that guy's camera phone. Nice clean video, audio, and with enough memory to hold a lot of footage. :thumbsup:

Does anyone know of a camera phone that meets the technical requirements? The set-up theory has been suggested elsewhere, and it's possible that the camera was not a camera phone.

At 0:05, LAB-PC-35 is clearly visible as the label on the monitor. Does anyone know if the camera-person has been identified?

Daily Bruin Video, 1:24
"Get back ... or you'll get tased too."

From approximately 4:55 onward, there is a student wearing a white shirt who is clearly agitated - gesticulating and shouting. He stands close to the officers throughout this period.

YouTube video, 6:35
O: Back up a little, back up.
[inaudible, white shirt and officer; white shirt gestures]
O: Get back over there or you're going to get tased too.
[white shirt steps back]

Citations and links for my earlier claims:

LA Times, November 18 article
"He was 200 pounds and went limp and was very hard to manage. They were trying to get him on his feet," Young said.

Originally posted by: TMMBSavior (eyewitness; language NSFW)

http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/showpost.php?p=374391
I like your characterization - "grabbed" him, he put one hand on his arm, and the idiot freaked the f*** out and started screaming.... He was yelling at the cops, and he was struggling.

http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/showpost.php?p=374420
These parts of the story are indisputable, and devoid of subjectivity.

1. As per "after hours" policy at Powell library, student was asked to provide student ID
2. student repeatedly refused to do so
3. student repeatedly refused to leave the building
4. cops were called

--only contested part of the story and really holds no bearing on the case either way
A. he was on his way out when the police confronted him
B. he was sitting in his chair and refused to move

I have already told you what I SAW, but choose whichever scenario is more to your liking, it doesn't matter.

5. A = student was confronted by cops on his way out, and one of the officers grabbed a hold of his arm and started leading him out. Student took exception to this and freaked the f***ed out, and struggled to break free.

5. B = student was confronted by cops while still sitting in his chair, and was repeatedly asked to leave. Cops attempted to drag him out, but he went "limp" and started scrambling for chairs/desks to hold onto.

6. Due to repeated resistance, AND warnings that he would be tased if he did not comply, he was tased.

7. Was tased again when he continually refused to comply to "get up" as the video demonstrates.

These are INDISPUTABLE FACTS of the case. It can not be argued that any of these 7 facts are not an accurate depiction of what happened.

 

[Dessert Tears]

Originally posted by: VooDooAddict
I think these officers would have tazed Ghandi.

Wikipedia, Civil disobedience
For example, Mahatma Gandhi outlined the following rules:

1. A civil resister (or satyagrahi) will harbour no anger.
2. He will suffer the anger of the opponent.
3. In so doing he will put up with assaults from the opponent, never retaliate; but he will not submit, out of fear of punishment or the like, to any order given in anger.
4. When any person in authority seeks to arrest a civil resister, he will voluntarily submit to the arrest, and he will not resist the attachment or removal of his own property, if any, when it is sought to be confiscated by authorities.
5. If a civil resister has any property in his possession as a trustee, he will refuse to surrender it, even though in defending it he might lose his life. He will, however, never retaliate.
6. Retaliation includes swearing and cursing.
7. Therefore a civil resister will never insult his opponent, and therefore also not take part in many of the newly coined cries which are contrary to the spirit of ahimsa.
8. A civil resister will not salute the Union Jack, nor will he insult it or officials, English or Indian.
9. In the course of the struggle if anyone insults an official or commits an assault upon him, a civil resister will protect such official or officials from the insult or attack even at the risk of his life.

Relevant points bolded. Rule 4 may also apply, depending on one's opinion. MT was clearly in violation of Gandhi's rules as quoted.

 

[ericsaccount]

I used to work at the CLICC labs!

 

[ColemontHD]

You who think the cops were at the wrong here are complete retards. The guy was asked to leave, he decided to be the punk ass little bitch that he is(like most of you are) and got what he deserves. In fact, the guy who thinks he is mister tough guy talking down to the cops is lucky his ass didnt get taken down either.

The guy was asked REPEATEDLY to get up, get up, get up or you will be tased again. Do what the law says then sort it out later. The police really should have beat that SOB to a bloody pole, but yea, we do live in the US of A.

Props to the COPS!

 

[Art Vandelay]

Those cops are asshole sucking losers. They obviously went on a power trip and hopefully will pay for it with their jobs and some jail time. ****** dickweeds.

 

[grrl]

They taser him, then yell "Stand up!" What a bunch of nimrods.

 

[ChaoZ]

Originally posted by: ColemontHD

The guy was asked REPEATEDLY to get up, get up, get up or you will be tased again. Do what the law says then sort it out later. The police really should have beat that SOB to a bloody pole, but yea, we do live in the US of A.

Props to the COPS!

...

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: grrl
They taser him, then yell "Stand up!" What a bunch of nimrods.

What's even more stupid is that people jump to conclusions without learning that the type of stun used by the officers here, a "drive stun", isn't incompacitiating, but just pain inducing.

There. Now the next time this topic comes up you can look like you actually have half a clue.

 

[kalster]

Excessive use of power

 

[Toastedlightly]

LOUD NOISES!

 

[Journer]

he deserved it...why didnt he just give up the ID? if he didnt have one, why not ask to finish up what he was doing and then leave? why didnt he just leave? what a fcking dumbass...

 

[Rogodin2]

If atot is a crosssection of humanity-I'm disappointed.

Rogo

 

[KrillBee]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: KrillBee
follow the cops and do EXACTLY what they ask, regardless of how unfair it sounds or whether or not you agree with it.

Or else there is a good chance you will get tazed.

jump off many bridges when you were a kid?

a cop will never ask you to jump off a bridge.

 

[SophalotJack]

If I was in the library expecting sh1t to be quiet for a school I pay an asscrap of money to... then I don't want some anus flipping out because he has a thing for making simple things complicated.

I just don't care for these situations. But since you all do, this kid, as much of a loser he is, will be more successful then ever before because of the attention.

GG guys.

 

[grrl]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: grrl
They taser him, then yell "Stand up!" What a bunch of nimrods.

What's even more stupid is that people jump to conclusions without learning that the type of stun used by the officers here, a "drive stun", isn't incompacitiating, but just pain inducing.

There. Now the next time this topic comes up you can look like you actually have half a clue.

I kneel at the altar of your unquestionable, firsthand experience with tasers. :roll:

I don't care whether it was set to stun, shock, kill or hyperspace, from his screams and my experiences with electricity, he probably needed at least a few moments to get his wits about him before getting up.

 

[Rogodin2]

Don't you know that we all get taser tolerance training when we take our midschool health exams?

This fellow certainly passed his with flying colors since it's COMPLETEY FVUCKING OBVIOUS THAT HE LIKES black jeaned women in high heels.

rogo

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: grrl
They taser him, then yell "Stand up!" What a bunch of nimrods.

What's even more stupid is that people jump to conclusions without learning that the type of stun used by the officers here, a "drive stun", isn't incompacitiating, but just pain inducing.

There. Now the next time this topic comes up you can look like you actually have half a clue.

How about we tase YOU and see how fast YOU can get back up?

Drive stun means you stick the taser into the guy instead of shooting the taser. It's the same.

We already quoted sources from the newspaper which quoted reliable research sources saying that you will be incapacitated for a certain amount of time.

How about you show us proof that you can get back up and it's only "painful" not incapacitating. In fact, let's get that proof by tasering you. Fvcktard.

 

[Dessert Tears]

Originally posted by: grrl
I don't care whether it was set to stun, shock, kill or hyperspace, from his screams and my experiences with electricity, he probably needed at least a few moments to get his wits about him before getting up.

MT is given over a minute between the first "stun" (ends at 0:35) and the second (starts at 1:45). I haven't marked time on the rest of the video, but there are 2 or 3 (the ambient noise makes it unclear) applied from 4:30 to 4:45. The count in the latest Daily Bruin article is 5 "stuns" total. 4:10 total time / 5 stuns - 5sec / stun "on" time (slight overestimate) = an average of 45 seconds of recuperation between stuns.

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: grrl
They taser him, then yell "Stand up!" What a bunch of nimrods.

What's even more stupid is that people jump to conclusions without learning that the type of stun used by the officers here, a "drive stun", isn't incompacitiating, but just pain inducing.

There. Now the next time this topic comes up you can look like you actually have half a clue.

How about we tase YOU and see how fast YOU can get back up?

Drive stun means you stick the taser into the guy instead of shooting the taser. It's the same. [emphasis added]

We already quoted sources from the newspaper which quoted reliable research sources saying that you will be incapacitated for a certain amount of time.

How about you show us proof that you can get back up and it's only "painful" not incapacitating. In fact, let's get that proof by tasering you. Fvcktard.

"Drive stun" does not at all utilize the prongs which are shot from the Taser when used in projectile mode. The prongs are hidden behind protective doors until the cartridge is fired. When used in projectile mode, the prongs spread apart in mid-air and puncture the target's clothing and skin. As skin is an effective insulator, the penetration combined with the wide distance between the probes gives projectile mode an great increase in effectiveness of disrupting motor function over "drive stun" mode.

Daily Bruin, Community responds to Taser use in Powell, November 16
"It's an electrical shock. ... It causes pain," Young said, adding that the drive stun would not likely demobilize a person or cause residual pain after the shock was administered. Young also said a Taser is less forceful than a baton, for example.

But according to a study published in the Lancet Medical Journal in 2001, a charge of three to five seconds can result in immobilization for five to 15 minutes, which would mean that Tabatabainejad could have been physically unable to stand when the officers demanded that he do so.

Edit to add quotation from Lancet article and information on cited sources.
The Lancet article is paraphrased here in a way that is potentially misleading.

The Lancet, Effects of stun guns and tasers.(Commentary)(Brief Article), September 1, 2001, emphasis added
The effects of tasers vary greatly, depending on electrical characteristics of the particular device, placement of darts, distance between the darts (a function of the distance from which the gun is fired), and the condition of the person being fired at. In stun guns the electrodes are usually about 5 cm apart, but darts from tasers diverge when fired, and the wider the distance between them when they land on the target, the greater the effect.(1) For example, electrodes 5 cm apart applied directly over the vastus lateralis muscle [side of the thigh] does not inhibit voluntary function of the muscle during stimulation or afterwards. After about 5 s of application of the stun gun, individuals who have been trying to resist will stop doing so, presumably because of pain or fatigue. By contrast, taser darts placed 10 inches apart (the distance reached if fired from about 6 feet) over the vastus lateralis in the same person will lock the leg in the flexed position, typically leading him or her to surrender quickly.(1)

The effects of stun guns have been reported to increase with duration of application. With electrodes 5 cm apart, applications of up to 0.5 s will cause the victim to be startled and repelled. 1-2 s of discharge of current will cause the victim to fall. Falls commonly occur in a slow semi-controlled fashion. The degree of sensation evoked by these devices can result in a response that far outlasts the duration of the current, so discharges of 3-5 s may leave the victim immobilised, dazed, and weak for 5-15 min.(2) In most people a stun gun applied for 4-5 s under the rib cage will bring them to their knees and weaken them.(1)

(1) Murray J, Resnick B. A guide to taser technology. Whitewater, Colorado: Whitewater Press, 1997.
(2) Robinson MN, Brooks CG, Renshaw GD. Electric shock devices and their effects on the human body. Med Sci Law 1990; 30: 285-300.

According to the Lancet article, electrodes separated by 5cm applied to the skin, as with a Taser in "drive stun" mode or a "stun gun," do not cause disruption of motor function during or after a "stun." Therefore, the target may be significantly disoriented or dazed by the pain, but any impairment to motor function is a second-order effect.

INDEPENDENT EVALUATION REPORT OF TASER AND AIR TASER CONDUCTED ENERGY WEAPONS, brief description of (1)
For more information on the history of the TASER, John Murray and Barnet Resnick, the CEO of Tasertron, have written an excellent book called, "A Guide To TASER Technology." This book is a must read for any instructor or department that is considering adopting a TASER pulse wave technology weapon for use within their department. Filled with information about the who, what, where, when, why, and how of TASER technology, it explains everything a person should know about the TASER in simple and plain language that is easily understood. Although this book primarily represents Barnet?s company and the products they represent, it is still an excellent reference guide, and answers a lot of questions about TASER technology.

Robinson MN, Brooks CG, Renshaw GD. Electric shock devices and their effects on the human body, Abstract, October 1990
Stun guns, shock batons and cattle prods are electric shock devices which can be used as weapons against the human body. Stun guns cause temporary incapacitation of the body whereas the other devices do not. The electrical outputs of examples of each type of device were measured using a digital storage oscilloscope at the moment when the device was discharged across resistors chosen to simulate the resistance of the human body. The outputs from the stun guns and the non-incapacitating devices have characteristic waveform shapes and magnitudes: significantly, the peak current from the stun guns is two orders of magnitude greater than from the other devices. To understand the possible hazardous effects of these outputs on the human body, the output parameters were related to the available information on the effects of electric currents on the human body and on the electro-immobilization of farm animals. [emphasis added]

Note that the electric shock devices were not tested directly on humans - they were measured, and the voltage/amperage/power measurements were compared to existing data.
End edit.

Palm Beach Post, Taser's effects fueling concern
The Taser training manual advises that because it is not incapacitating, this ["drive stun"] mode can lead to "prolonged struggles" and that "it is in these types of scenarios that officers are often facing accusations of excessive force."

Daily Bruin, Questions raised about safety, regulation of Tasers, November 17
On Tuesday, UCPD used the "drive stun" setting, which is one of two possible settings that can be used.

According to a report prepared by the Stanford Criminal Justice Center, the drive stun setting of a Taser is intended for "pain compliance" in close range.

The drive stun setting, in which police touch the device to a person's body, has less serious medical consequences than a regular Taser stun, in which a person is shot with two metal probes that pump electrical currents through the body.

But the report found that there can be "permanent ... dermatological impairments associated with the use of a Taser in (drive) stun mode." The report also emphasized that drive stun shocks are not fatal and the long-term physical implications are not serious.

"Permanent ... dermatological impairments" refers to scarring of the skin. Repeated "stuns" to one area sometimes cause welts or redness that generally heals in 1-7 days.

My first post to this thread, in which I describe my knowledge of the effectiveness of "stun guns." Please note that my missing "I have a medical condition" at 0:41 in the video is a known error, but I do not wish to edit my post. I came across this corroboration of my post this weekend: Wikipedia, Electroshock gun: Doubts over their effectiveness as self-defense weapons

A follow-up post where I quote from the November 17 article.