Gut check for new PC build

[cadred]

I am finally upgrading my 3 year old Core 2 system and I want to put together a bang-for-bucks machine 😀

My needs are (in order) photo editing, music recording, gaming, and (light) video editing. Overclocking is cool, but I value stability over pushing the limits of the hardware.

My budget is roughly $1,500. I'd like to keep it under, if possible.

Here's what I have so far:
CPU: Core i7-2600k $309.99
Mobo: GIGABYTE GA-Z68A-D3H-B3 $119.99
Memory: G. SKILL Ripjaws X 16GB $89.99
GPU: NVIDIA gtx670 $399.99
Data: Intel 520 240GB $330.99
Case: Antect P280 $119.99
PSU: Corsair TX650 V2 $89.99

Total $1470.93

I already have other incidentals like monitors, keyboard, mouse, and dvd drive.

So my questions/concerns for the forums are:

First, I'm a little hesitant on the GPU, I don't intend to game as much as I used to, so I don't know if I want to put 25% of my budget to a graphics card. On the other hand whatever I get now I probably have to live with for a while. I need some advice.

Second, Is the PSU overkill for this rig?

Third, I hesitant on the case. My current case was an Antec P182, so I'm not 100% sure if it's worth the money to upgrade or not. The main downsides of keeping it are it was a pain to route the cables initially (I don't look forward to doing that again), and the front usb port is busted (and lacking usb 3).

Finally, is there any need for a 3rd party cooler? Will the retail fan + decent case handle light overclocking? On my current rig I have a xigmatek dark knight, but it always seemed like overkill for the little bit I oc'ed.

And obviously any other advice or recommendations are appreciated.

Edit: Updated build below

 

[lehtv]

I'd say 2600K is a good idea, it can be had for $60 less than 3770K, making it not much more expensive than the non-hyperthreaded 3570K.

Buy a Z77 board for the same price.

Intel 520 is expensive compared to Crucial M4 256GB which is just as good. Do you not need a storage drive?

First, I'm a little hesitant on the GPU, I don't intend to game as much as I used to, so I don't know if I want to put 25% of my budget to a graphics card. On the other hand whatever I get now I probably have to live with for a while. I need some advice.

GTX 670 is an excellent card, it's 60-80% faster than a 7850 so it's actually better bang for buck despite being a higher end card. On your budget, you just can't go wrong with it. It'll last long before needing an upgrade, and even if you don't game very much, you're at least making sure that you get the most out of those gaming sessions.

On the other hand, you'd get by with 7850 as well, it really boils down to how much you want to spend now.

I trust your monitor resolution is 1920x1080?

Second, Is the PSU overkill for this rig?

Yes, slightly. i5 + GTX 670 with OC is fine on a 500-550W unit. Not worth spending $90 on a PSU anyway because PC P&C 600W is only $57 AR AP and it gets you the best of both worlds - low cost and high quality+capacity.

Third, I hesitant on the case.

Well, I'd say Corsair 550D and Fractal Design R3 are better quiet cases. The P280 is pretty nice but has an open top which, theoretically, bleeds out noise. 550D and R3 have fan slots on top as well but they are blocked by default. Other than that, P280 doesn't really suffer from any flaws present in the P182.

Finally, is there any need for a 3rd party cooler? Will the retail fan + decent case handle light overclocking?

A very light OC can be done on the stock cooler. It's going to be a bit loud though. Seeing as you're inclined to build in a quiet case, you might want to make sure your CPU cooler is quiet as well. I'd recommend aftermarket cooling even without OC if you're sensitive to fan noise. Scythe Mugen 3 is my standard quiet cooler recommendation, I'm very pleased with my Mugen 2. If you get the Mugen, buy fully low profile RAM. Here.

 

[Venom20]

what will you be using this computer for? I'm wondering why spend the extra cash on an i7-2600k when perhaps an i5-3570k would do just fine?

 

[cadred]

what will you be using this computer for? I'm wondering why spend the extra cash on an i7-2600k when perhaps an i5-3570k would do just fine?

The primary reason for the upgrade is the wall I've hit with photo editing. Lightroom 4 is especially bad; it's to the point I cannot edit photos and stream music at the same time. So for me I think the most processor I can afford is the way to go. I haven't looked at Ivy B processors that much, how does the i5 3570k stack up to the 2600k?

Buy a Z77 board for the same price.

Is there any major advantage to the Z77 compared to Z68, other than perhaps better forward compatibility?

Intel 520 is expensive compared to Crucial M4 256GB which is just as good. Do you not need a storage drive?

I will check it out, the price is great, though it seems to have a higher failure rate than the Intels.

GTX 670 is an excellent card, it's 60-80% faster than a 7850 so it's actually better bang for buck despite being a higher end card.

Personal experience has taught me to steer clear of AMD cards (and their drivers).

I trust your monitor resolution is 1920x1080?

Dual monitors at 1680x1050 actually. Their decent enough that I'm happy with them for the moment.

Well, I'd say Corsair 550D and Fractal Design R3 are better quiet cases. The P280 is pretty nice but has an open top which, theoretically, bleeds out noise. 550D and R3 have fan slots on top as well but they are blocked by default. Other than that, P280 doesn't really suffer from any flaws present in the P182.

I looked the R3, the Anand review said it was mostly a wash between the 2 cases. I saw the Corair, but it seemed to have a few less positive reviews?

Also, I like a quiet machine but I don't need it to be stone cold silent. I just like comfortable cases to build and work in that have decent acoustics (or lack of).

 

[lehtv]

I haven't looked at Ivy B processors that much, how does the i5 3570k stack up to the 2600k?

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/551?vs=287
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/288?vs=287

Unfortunately 3570K isn't in the bench yet but you can imagine how 2500K vs 3570K would look like based on the 2600K vs 3770K benches.

Is there any major advantage to the Z77 compared to Z68, other than perhaps better forward compatibility?

No major advantage, just the fact that it's a newer chipset with native USB3.0. (Z68/Gen3 motherboards supports Ivy Bridge and PCIe 3.0 just like Z77.) If you're only paying $100-120 for a regular board with no bells and whistles, might as well buy Z77. But many Z68 boards above that price point have become cheaper quite a bit since Z77's introduction, e.g. Asus P8Z68-V/Gen3 is only $133 after rebate and promo, it used to cost $180. Gigabyte Z68X-UD3H for $130 AR is another example.

I will check it out, the price is great, though it seems to have a higher failure rate than the Intels.

Based on what? Intel 520 series hasn't been out for very long. It's a Sandforce drive, I'd expect its failure rate to be higher than that of other Intels, simply by extrapolation from other Sandforce based drives like OCZ Vertex 3 and Corsair Force. Also, this article shows Crucial leading Intel in return rate %.

Regardless, even if Intel did have a lower failure rate, it'd still make no sense to spend $100 on the slim chance of not having to RMA it.

Personal experience has taught me to steer clear of AMD cards (and their drivers).

NVIDIA doesn't really yet have competition below GTX 670, unfortunately..

Dual monitors at 1680x1050 actually. Their decent enough that I'm happy with them for the moment.

Oh. Well... GTX 670 is quite overkill for 1680x1050. It's still OK to get it on your budget... But I might suggest buying a cheap placeholder card though, e.g. GTX 560, then upgrade monitor to 1080p in a while, sell the placeholder, and buy GTX 670. Or GTX 660 Ti when it's released.

 

[mfenn]

NVIDIA doesn't really yet have competition below GTX 670, unfortunately..

Oh. Well... GTX 670 is quite overkill for 1680x1050. It's still OK to get it on your budget... But I might suggest buying a cheap placeholder card though, e.g. GTX 560, then upgrade monitor to 1080p in a while, sell the placeholder, and buy GTX 670. Or GTX 660 Ti when it's released.

I agree with lehtv overall, and wanted to elaborate on this point. At 1680x1050, there is no reason to be spending $400 on a GPU. A 7850 will work great for your needs.

I'm not sure what everybody's beef is with AMD's drivers, they are fine IMHO. I've switched back and forth quite a few times over the years, and Nvidia has put out some buggy shit from time to time (just like AMD). Ever try to play King's Bounty on Nvidia? What about DA:O when it came out? Yeaaaaaaahhhh.

 

[cadred]

Based on what?

My opinion is based on Intel's prior track record and the fact they spent a long time working the kinks out of the sandforce firmware. But you are right, it's too soon to tell and $100 difference is compelling.

GTX 670 is quite overkill for 1680x1050. It's still OK to get it on your budget... But I might suggest buying a cheap placeholder card though, e.g. GTX 560, then upgrade monitor to 1080p in a while, sell the placeholder, and buy GTX 670. Or GTX 660 Ti when it's released.

I suspect that running the Witcher 2 cranked up would at least make the 670 sweat.

I agree with lehtv overall, and wanted to elaborate on this point. At 1680x1050, there is no reason to be spending $400 on a GPU. A 7850 will work great for your needs.

I'm not sure what everybody's beef is with AMD's drivers, they are fine IMHO.

No offense, I still don't care for AMD 🙂 Call it personal preference, but with the couple of AMD/ATI cards I've owned, they've all had driver issues. My current work laptop has an AMD chip and it's the number one thing that bluescreens my laptop.

I agree that the 670 is weighing my budget down. What about a 570, it's a $100 cheaper, probably at least match whatever the 660 will end up being?

 

[ManBearPig]

Listen to mfenn and lehtv. That's my advice. You guys should have a PC building talk show or something. :awe:

 

[lehtv]

I suspect that running the Witcher 2 cranked up would at least make the 670 sweat.

Maybe. But only because of ubersampling which essentially makes every frame rendered twice, but doesn't really have that much of an impact on image quality.

I agree that the 670 is weighing my budget down. What about a 570, it's a $100 cheaper, probably at least match whatever the 660 will end up being?

Well, 570 is great for 1680x1050, and decent for 1080p. Sort of a compromise should you upgrade the monitor. It's not a bad choice if you only look at NVIDIA cards. GTX 670 is slightly better performance for the money though

 

[cadred]

Ok, here's an updated build, based mostly on feedback here:

Core i5-3570K $239.99
GIGABYTE GA-Z77-D3H $119.99
G. SKILL Ripjaws X $89.99
NVIDIA 670 $399.99
Crucial M4 256 $239.99
Fractal Design Define R3 $109.99
PC Power and Cooling Silencer MK II $56.49 (AR)

Total $1256.43

I decided to go with the cheaper ssd and (slightly cheaper R3 case) and thinking about putting that money back into the processor. I'm still a little uncertain between going with the Core i5 3570k, the Core i7 2700k, or going big the Core i7 3770k. If the Core i5 can match or top the i7 2600/2700 for less, than it's pretty compelling but with photo editing as my primary need, I don't want to skimp on processor.

I also might add a 3rd party cpu cooler to the mix, especially with the thermal paste debacle going on.

I know the gtx670 is still overkill, so I'm considering holding onto my oc'd 460 for now and waiting to see what the 660 looks like. Or I could just splurge... hmmm

Let me know if I'm getting close here 😀

 

[lehtv]

Wait you have an OC'd 460? Keep it, upgrade it when you upgrade the monitor. 460 should handle 1680x1050 fine

 

[cadred]

Wait you have an OC'd 460? Keep it, upgrade it when you upgrade the monitor. 460 should handle 1680x1050 fine

I have it running at FTW specs: 850/1700/2000(4000).

Tweaking my picks

Core i7-3770K $349.99
GIGABYTE GA-Z77-D3H $119.99
G. SKILL Ripjaws X $89.99
Crucial M4 256 $239.99
Fractal Design Define R3 $109.99
PC Power and Cooling Silencer MK II $56.49 (AR)

Total $966.44

Remove the nvida and up the CPU.

 

[lehtv]

3770K isn't worth $60 more than 2600K, it's nowhere near 20% faster, see here for comparison. 2600K will also overclock more easily.

Edit: with 2500K ($200) vs 3570K ($229) the price difference is 15%. 3570K still isn't 15% faster and still overclocks worse, so objectively 2500K is the better bang for buck processor.

 

[cadred]

3770K isn't worth $60 more than 2600K, it's nowhere near 20% faster, see here for comparison. 2600K will also overclock more easily.

Edit: with 2500K ($200) vs 3570K ($229) the price difference is 15%. 3570K still isn't 15% faster and still overclocks worse, so objectively 2500K is the better bang for buck processor.

Fair enough, but I think without the GPU, I'd prefer to spend a little more with the processor, which is arguable going to do me the most good.

Reading benchmarks today it looks like the 2600 hangs pretty well with the 3770, but not the 2500 or the 3570 (early benchmarks).

I'm about 50/50 between the 2600 and the 3770, maybe leaning a little towards the 2600 due to cost and availability (3770 is out of stock in many places).

Also, time for a dumb question, but does it matter much what memory I'm getting? Looking here, there are a number of memory modules with extremely similar specs, the most popular of which is 9-9-9-24-2N, but most of which is just 9-9-9-24. Does it matter which I get as long as it's PC3 1600?

 

[mfenn]

Fair enough, but I think without the GPU, I'd prefer to spend a little more with the processor, which is arguable going to do me the most good.

HT is straight up not worth it for your use cases. I'd take option (c), keep the i5 3570K and put the extra money away for a monitor upgrade.

Also, time for a dumb question, but does it matter much what memory I'm getting? Looking here, there are a number of memory modules with extremely similar specs, the most popular of which is 9-9-9-24-2N, but most of which is just 9-9-9-24. Does it matter which I get as long as it's PC3 1600?

Most 9-9-9-24 memory is 2N command rate, it's just that some manufacturer's don't specify it. To answer your question, no it doesn't really matter as long as the specs are the same. Get the cheapest DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 from a major brand (Mushkin, Crucial, Corsair, Kingston, G.Skill, etc.).

 

[cadred]

HT is straight up not worth it for your use cases. I'd take option (c), keep the i5 3570K and put the extra money away for a monitor upgrade.

Lightroom and Photoshop both make some use of hyperthreading, though not for heavy lifting tasks. But besides HT, there is also L3 cache to consider, and uh... turbo speed, or something. I know it's not a trivial price difference, it's small in the scale of the whole budget. I get what you are saying though, the 3570 is definitely a better value and I'm still weighing my options.

To answer your question, no it doesn't really matter as long as the specs are the same.

Awesome, great to know.

 

[ElFenix]

If you get the Mugen, buy fully low profile RAM. Here.

when did regular height ram become low profile?

samsung sells ram sticks that are shorter than that, btw.

 

[mfenn]

when did regular height ram become low profile?

Since the market was flooded with crappy heatspreader designs. :awe: I agree with you though, true low profile RAM is barely taller than the retention clips.

 

[lehtv]

Well, you're right Fenix. Standard is the new low.

 

[cadred]

Final Purchases!

Core i7-3770K $349.99
GIGABYTE GA-Z77-D3H $119.99
G. SKILL Ripjaws X $89.99
Crucial M4 256 $239.99
Fractal Design Define R3 $109.99
Corsair TX-650 $69.9 (AR)
EVGA gtx-670 FTW $419.99

Okay, my bang for the buck PC became mostly a no holds barred PC. But some of the suggestions here allowed me to shift my budget around to splurge in places I was happier splurging.

So I know I am going against some of the wisdom brought here, so I will defend my choices. My first priority for this build was photo editing performance. That means processor was #1. I could have saved a small margin by going with the 2700k or 3750k, but that meant some compromises on going with an older motherboard or potentially loosing some features (either with the cpu/mobo combo or hyperthreading - which adobe recommends for it's software).besides having the latest and greatest chip was not a bad thing. So I splurged there.

Second, video. I decided to splurge here with the idea of this card lasting me a while. I know it's overkill now, but more graphically intensive games are always around the corner which may push the card in news ways. And as long as MS doesn't come out with DX12, I probably won't feel the need to upgrade for a few years.

I went with the FTW version, only because I really wanted the quiet and cool Gigabyte Windforce 670, but at the time of my build it was nowhere to be found - and hasn't been for at least a week. The EVGA FTW has the 680's fan, which is reported to be more efficient and quieter than the stock reference 670's, and at only $20 more it wasn't a terrible premium. I still might have liked to have the windforce model, but that also has the downside of exhausting into the case, which puts more pressure on my case, which I believe makes some performance compromises for sound dampening. So there's that.

Next is the PSU. I know the PC P&C was reccmended and it just received a positive review on the site, but there was some indications that the cable length might be a problem for a larger case and mobo, which I think I have, but who knows. I'm familiar with the corsair brand, and I might have even have this exact PSU, or it's immediate predecessor in my current build. I think I loose modularity, but with the R3 case, it shouldn't be a problem (unlike my Antec P182, which wants to chop up the extra cables with the HD fans).

So those are the departures from the wisdom. I spent a little more than I probably should have, but stayed within the upper limits of my budget and I should have a kick ass machine in a few days (minus the potential RMAs).

Hopefully I can get it all put together without incident. 🙂

Thank you guys.

 

[mfenn]

Buying a powerful GPU with the idea to future proof yourself is generally a pretty bad idea. GPUs increase in speed so quickly that the powerful GPU of today is pretty wimpy in 2 years. It won't matter if a $400 card is 50% faster than a $250 card in 2 years because games will be expecting a card that is 200% faster. What will matter is that extra $150 in your pocket that can be spent on an upgrade.

Regarding the case, the R3 is fairly small, so you wouldn't have any trouble with the cable length of the Silencer. Not that the 650TX is a bad PSU, it just costs a bit more than you needed.

 

[cadred]

Buying a powerful GPU with the idea to future proof yourself is generally a pretty bad idea. GPUs increase in speed so quickly that the powerful GPU of today is pretty wimpy in 2 years. It won't matter if a $400 card is 50% faster than a $250 card in 2 years because games will be expecting a card that is 200% faster. What will matter is that extra $150 in your pocket that can be spent on an upgrade.

Regarding the case, the R3 is fairly small, so you wouldn't have any trouble with the cable length of the Silencer. Not that the 650TX is a bad PSU, it just costs a bit more than you needed.

Can't you just be supportive, the money is all spent 😀

A few years ago I would have been more worried about gpu obsolescence, but even my 3 year old 460, which was far from high end 3 years ago, keeps up with most games today just fine. So nah 🙂

Difference in price post rebate is $14, which is a nice lunch out, so not tragic

 

[lehtv]

I have to disagree with mfenn about the GPU. Games will most definitely not be expecting a 200% faster video card in two years. An example of a two year old high end card: GTX 480. That card can still run every game out there, and if you had that instead of a midrange GTX 460, you would probably be holding on to it for a while longer.

But I do think you went a bit overboard on the CPU. 3570K or 2600K would've been fine. Oh well, at least you have the fastest LGA1155 CPU released... 🙂

Good luck with putting it together, let us know if problems arise :thumbsup:

 

[cadred]

Good luck with putting it together, let us know if problems arise :thumbsup:

Thanks!

 

[mfenn]

Can't you just be supportive, the money is all spent 😀

Hey, I am supportive, I just believe in tough love. :awe:

You got a solid piece of kit, don't worry about it.