Guns Kill People EDIT: it wsa a .454 Casull...

[Analog]

Just two mile from my place. Sad I really wonder how this could happen...

Edit: He was a member of my church, his daughter and mine are in the same confirmation class. Found out from my daughter after school that it was quite a sad day at school today with the girls that knew his daughter (including mine).

---------

A Midland man died in an accidental shooting at a local gun club Sunday morning.

Midland County Sheriff Jerry Nielsen said the accident occurred at 10:57 a.m. at the Midland Sportsman's Club on Sturgeon Road.

Michael W. Laursen, 48, was at the club to sight in three revolvers, Nielsen said. Officials believe the accident occurred when Laursen slipped and fell, and the revolver he was preparing to fire on the outdoor range discharged when he and it struck the ground. He was alone on the range.

Laursen, who was a financial adviser for Hantz Financial Services, 2621 W. Wackerly in Midland, was carrying a .454-caliber Freedom Arms Model 83 Casull revolver when he fell. He also had two other handguns with him, said Sheriff Jerry Nielsen.

"His death was immediate," Nielsen said.

Assisting deputies at the scene in Larkin Township were MidMichigan Medical Center EMS and Chief Deputy Medical Examiner Dr. Dennis Wagner.

No foul play is suspected, a media release states. "This was an accident," Nielsen said this morning.

http://www.ourmidland.com/site...1&dept_id=596900&rfi=6

 

[Hyperlite]

bummer

 

[Kadarin]

Technically, bullets moving at high velocity that violently impact critical areas of flesh kill people. But yeah, this sounds like an unfortunate accident.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

so do champagne corks

its a dangerous world my friend

 

[irishScott]

On the other hand: Guns kill people who would use guns to kill people

Depends on the person.

 

[pontifex]

the hammer had to have been pulled back for the revolver to go off right? sounds like he wasn't practicing gun safety

 

[KB]

People still kill people, or themselves, even if by accident. I am waiting for someone to come on and say: Ban guns because some guy fell and shot himself!!!

I have to wonder what happened: did he fall with his finger on the trigger and it caused him to squeeze the trigger or did the gun drop on the hammer? For the first condition you are taught not to put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot. For the second: theoretically a glock, et al., wouldn't have had this problem.

 

[Jschmuck2]

Originally posted by: pontifex
the hammer had to have been pulled back for the revolver to go off right? sounds like he wasn't practicing gun safety

No, not necessarily.

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: pontifex
the hammer had to have been pulled back for the revolver to go off right? sounds like he wasn't practicing gun safety

No, not necessarily.

how else does a revolver fire?

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: pontifex
the hammer had to have been pulled back for the revolver to go off right? sounds like he wasn't practicing gun safety

No, not necessarily.

how else does a revolver fire?

i'm not sure i'd trust anything one of the resident anti-gun trolls says.
the only other option would be that he pulled the trigger while he fell, if it was a DA revolver

 

[Jmman]

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: pontifex
the hammer had to have been pulled back for the revolver to go off right? sounds like he wasn't practicing gun safety

No, not necessarily.

how else does a revolver fire?

The gun will still fire if the trigger is pulled and the hammer isn't cocked.......

 

[upsciLLion]

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: pontifex
the hammer had to have been pulled back for the revolver to go off right? sounds like he wasn't practicing gun safety

No, not necessarily.

how else does a revolver fire?

There might not have been a firing pin block in the revolver. If the hammer hit the floor, it might have generated enough force to set off the primer.

 

[Mutilator]

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: pontifex
the hammer had to have been pulled back for the revolver to go off right? sounds like he wasn't practicing gun safety

No, not necessarily.

how else does a revolver fire?

Not all revolvers have external hammers. The particular one in this story does.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: upsciLLion

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: pontifex
the hammer had to have been pulled back for the revolver to go off right? sounds like he wasn't practicing gun safety

No, not necessarily.

how else does a revolver fire?

There might not have been a firing pin block in the revolver. If the hammer hit the floor, it might have generated enough force to set off the primer.

i thought of that too, but most guns these days have a firing pin block, don't they?

 

[upsciLLion]

Most, yes. The manual for the revolver he had seems to suggest this model did not. See page 5.

http://www.freedomarms.com/Manual83-full.pdf

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: Jmman

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: pontifex
the hammer had to have been pulled back for the revolver to go off right? sounds like he wasn't practicing gun safety

No, not necessarily.

how else does a revolver fire?

The gun will still fire if the trigger is pulled and the hammer isn't cocked.......

Only if it's a double-action revolver. A single-action revolver will not fire if the trigger is pulled and the hammer isn't cocked. The trigger only performs the "single action" of releasing the hammer.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

This makes me wonder, though how many people have these non common rounds actually killed? I wonder how many people have been killed by .454 Casull, or 10MM or .41, or .50AE.

 

[Kelvrick]

Wow sad case. He still killed himself with the gun, the gun didn't kill him.

It says he slipped and fell, making me think he was moving about with the loaded revolver.

 

[kalrith]

I looked it up, and the gun with which the man was shot was a single action: link. This means that the hammer was most likely cocked, which would make pontifex's assumption of poor gun safety correct. I suppose it's possible that the hammer got cocked and the trigger pulled during the fall, but that seems extremely unlikely.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: upsciLLion

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: pontifex
the hammer had to have been pulled back for the revolver to go off right? sounds like he wasn't practicing gun safety

No, not necessarily.

how else does a revolver fire?

There might not have been a firing pin block in the revolver. If the hammer hit the floor, it might have generated enough force to set off the primer.

i thought of that too, but most guns these days have a firing pin block, don't they?

Looks like he was using a single-action revolver. That means no double-action trigger pull, so the only way to get it to fire is to first cock the hammer. Since the model has no firing pin block (and a manually-set hammer safety bar) it is theoretically possible to have the hammer down and have the gun fire from something striking the hammer if there is a live round in the chamber under the hammer.

However, one of the first rules of carrying a single-action revolver is that you never, not under any circumstances, carry the weapon with a live round under the hammer. This is an unfortunate incident, but it should serve as a reminder to every gun owner that no matter how much experience you have the basic safety rules are vitally important.

ZV

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: pontifex
the hammer had to have been pulled back for the revolver to go off right? sounds like he wasn't practicing gun safety

No, not necessarily.

how else does a revolver fire?

if gravity is against you, and the revolver falls butt down on the ground, the hammer can be pulled back enough to fire a round. ive seen it with the old ruger super blackhawk, we did a report on it back in college. totally controlled test, and if dropped from at least 2.5ft onto a solid floor there was more than 90% chance of accidentally firing. ruger didnt have that problem, as im sure any semi auto wouldnt that had a disengaged safety. sux for this guy tho, hate to hear about that stuff happening.

 

[Jschmuck2]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: upsciLLion

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: pontifex
the hammer had to have been pulled back for the revolver to go off right? sounds like he wasn't practicing gun safety

No, not necessarily.

how else does a revolver fire?

There might not have been a firing pin block in the revolver. If the hammer hit the floor, it might have generated enough force to set off the primer.

i thought of that too, but most guns these days have a firing pin block, don't they?

1.) Go fuck yourself.

2.) If the revolver is DA (which I'm pretty sure it is, assuming it's a recent model), maybe he tripped with his finger on the trigger. Of course, with a gun that size, he would've had to have been pointing it AT himself for that situation to play out...but I suppose anything is possible in Texas.

3.) I'm not necessarily anti-gun, I'm anti-gun culture. I'm also anti-douchebag, which is why we don't get along.

EDIT: My above assumption was wrong. I assumed it would be the Raging Bull version and now that I see in the edit that it wasn't, I take that back.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: upsciLLion

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: pontifex
the hammer had to have been pulled back for the revolver to go off right? sounds like he wasn't practicing gun safety

No, not necessarily.

how else does a revolver fire?

There might not have been a firing pin block in the revolver. If the hammer hit the floor, it might have generated enough force to set off the primer.

i thought of that too, but most guns these days have a firing pin block, don't they?

1.) Go fuck yourself.

2.) If the revolver is DA (which I'm pretty sure it is, assuming it's a recent model), maybe he tripped with his finger on the trigger. Of course, with a gun that size, he would've had to have been pointing it AT himself for that situation to play out...but I suppose anything is possible in Texas.

3.) I'm not necessarily anti-gun, I'm anti-gun culture. I'm also anti-douchebag, which is why we don't get along.

hey, we have something in common

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: upsciLLion

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: pontifex
the hammer had to have been pulled back for the revolver to go off right? sounds like he wasn't practicing gun safety

No, not necessarily.

how else does a revolver fire?

There might not have been a firing pin block in the revolver. If the hammer hit the floor, it might have generated enough force to set off the primer.

i thought of that too, but most guns these days have a firing pin block, don't they?

1.) Go fuck yourself.

2.) If the revolver is DA (which I'm pretty sure it is, assuming it's a recent model), maybe he tripped with his finger on the trigger. Of course, with a gun that size, he would've had to have been pointing it AT himself for that situation to play out...but I suppose anything is possible in Texas.

3.) I'm not necessarily anti-gun, I'm anti-gun culture. I'm also anti-douchebag, which is why we don't get along.

EDIT: My above assumption was wrong. I assumed it would be the Raging Bull version and now that I see in the edit that it wasn't, I take that back.

when you say gun culture... what do you mean? The idea of buying a couple different guns and enjoying talk of them and taking them out to the range to enjoy every now and then... is that the gun culture you hate? Because if I could afford that, it's what I'd do. But I'm a pyro that loves explosions and loud noises, so guns and rifles are up my ally. That and I need to stay proficient at marksmanship considering that will be my duty in life for the foreseeable future. But I thoroughly go by proper gun safety and have the idea that one should never hold a weapon you are not 100% familiar with in terms of inner workings. At the least, the knowledge of how to clear any weapon you hold is a must.

What the OP describes is an unfortunate accident.
But it appears the man in question did not adhere completely to gun safety considerations. The idea that he tripped while holding a revolver with the hammer pulled back suggests he was moving. Bummer. Takes only one moment of not adhering to proper gun safety for a lethal accident to occur.

and he wouldn't have needed to point it at himself for this to happen. If you fall while in motion, he could have let go of the gun or it could have slipped in his hand. Depending on what direction he fell and other circumstances not mentioned, it could have went down in numerous ways.

 

[upsciLLion]

The Model 83 is a single action revolver without a firing pin block, guys.