Gunman shoots and kills guard at Holocaust Museum in Washington DC

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: mrkun

Originally posted by: Perknose
Why is it that the real face of lethal "domestic terrorism" in this century turns out time and time again to be a right winger?

I don't think this guy fits within the (I think artificial) conventional left-right framework. I don't know his personal beliefs, but I think neo-Nazis are typically national socialists, who are very conservative socially, while economically "liberal": They support state intervention in the economy and also in regulating social behavior.

Edit: The World's Smallest Political Quiz is useful in illustrating the distinction. Neo-Nazis would fall in the "statist" category.

American Neo-Nazis are principally about unbridled Aryan white power racism and HATE liberals and socialists with a passion. Are you really somehow unaware of this?

They didn't plan ot march through the predominantly Jewish suburb of Skokie,Ill. some years ago on a platform of universal health care and more government oversight. :roll:

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: daniel1113
I am shocked, just shocked, that security wasn't a deterrent for this lunatic.

Amazing that more people weren't injured, though.

Security did their job. Good for them. Probably prevented more injuries/killing.

I agree, but it didn't really prevent the violence from happening in the first place. Reasonable security can be effective, but it's not going to solve the problem. I just hope this even doesn't result in an increase in pointless security measures.

 

[mcmilljb]

Calling someone right-wing is a vastly different than calling someone far right. Perknose should have said far right if he wanted to refer to the person properly according to the way you want to label people.

Lets look at the Left-wing definition:

The spectrum of left-wing politics ranges from centre-left to far left (or ultra-left). The term centre left describes a position close to the political mainstream. The terms far left and ultra-left refer to positions that are more radical. The centre-left includes social democrats, progressives and also some democratic socialists and greens (in particular the eco-socialists). Centre-left supporters accept market allocation of resources in a mixed economy with a significant public sector and a thriving private sector. Centre-left policies tend to favour limited state intervention in the economy in matters pertaining to the public interest. The centre-left also often favours moderate environmentalist policies and generally, though not universally, supports individual freedom on moral issues.

In several countries, the terms far left and radical left have been associated with ideologies such as communism, Maoism, Autonomism and Collectivist anarchism. They have been used to describe groups that advocate anti-capitalist, identity politics or eco-terrorism as well as the totalitarian regimes of Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. In France, a distinction is made between the left (Socialist Party and Communist Party) and the far left (Trotskyists, Maoists and Anarchists).[7] The US Department of Homeland Security defines left-wing extremism as groups who want "to bring about change through violent revolution rather than through established political processes."[8][9]

Maybe you should update it so it includes extremists.

The point is that right-wing and left-wing are mostly normal people. These "far" right and left are merely fringe groups (at best) that desperately want their unaccepted ideas to be accepted by a larger group through the few political similarities they have. Do some people go too far labeling people? Yes they do. This guy was a deranged person no doubt, so don't try putting him into some "fringe group" just so you can push your anti-republican feelings.

Plus this guy acted alone. No one conspired with him to do this. This guy clearly had mental problems and got pushed over the edge.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Perknose
Why is it that the real face of lethal "domestic terrorism" in this century turns out time and time again to be a right winger?

Nice troll. This guy was no right winger. Let's just call him what he is (and hopefully past tense was) a lunatic.

tomato, tomah-to...

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: mcmilljb
Calling someone right-wing is a vastly different than calling someone far right. Perknose should have said far right if he wanted to refer to the person properly according to the way you want to label people.

Lets look at the Left-wing definition:

The spectrum of left-wing politics ranges from centre-left to far left (or ultra-left). The term centre left describes a position close to the political mainstream. The terms far left and ultra-left refer to positions that are more radical. The centre-left includes social democrats, progressives and also some democratic socialists and greens (in particular the eco-socialists). Centre-left supporters accept market allocation of resources in a mixed economy with a significant public sector and a thriving private sector. Centre-left policies tend to favour limited state intervention in the economy in matters pertaining to the public interest. The centre-left also often favours moderate environmentalist policies and generally, though not universally, supports individual freedom on moral issues.

In several countries, the terms far left and radical left have been associated with ideologies such as communism, Maoism, Autonomism and Collectivist anarchism. They have been used to describe groups that advocate anti-capitalist, identity politics or eco-terrorism as well as the totalitarian regimes of Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. In France, a distinction is made between the left (Socialist Party and Communist Party) and the far left (Trotskyists, Maoists and Anarchists).[7] The US Department of Homeland Security defines left-wing extremism as groups who want "to bring about change through violent revolution rather than through established political processes."[8][9]

Maybe you should update it so it includes extremists.

The point is that right-wing and left-wing are mostly normal people. These "far" right and left are merely fringe groups (at best) that desperately want their unaccepted ideas to be accepted by a larger group through the few political similarities they have. Do some people go too far labeling people? Yes they do. This guy was a deranged person no doubt, so don't try putting him into some "fringe group" just so you can push your anti-republican feelings.

Plus this guy acted alone. No one conspired with him to do this. This guy clearly had mental problems and got pushed over the edge.

No it doesn't... right-wing/left-wing can span from moderate to extreme. Saying a neo-nazi is 'rightwing' or 'far-right' would both be correct. So is saying a communist is 'leftwing' or 'far-left'.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

Originally posted by: Perknose
Why is it that the real face of lethal "domestic terrorism" in this century turns out time and time again to be a right winger?

Yeah, I'm sure MS-13 and the rest of America's gangs align with the right as well.

Stop being an idiot.

 

[sandorski]

PSA: Sorry Righties, but your Extreme is Fascist/Nazi and thus just as horrid as the Lefts' Extreme.

 

[sandorski]

I was gonna make a joke about the Senile and mistaking a Gaurd as a War Criminal, but this is just another example of a Right Wing coming unhinged. Sep 12 might turn out to be a very interesting day.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: sandorski
PSA: Sorry Righties, but your Extreme is Fascist/Nazi and thus just as horrid as the Lefts' Extreme.

Then why is everything Obama does resemble fascism? Every word out of his mouth, every idea?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: sandorski
PSA: Sorry Righties, but your Extreme is Fascist/Nazi and thus just as horrid as the Lefts' Extreme.

Then why is everything Obama does resemble fascism? Every word out of his mouth, every idea?

..cause you're an Idiot.

 

[foghorn67]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Guess you should take out the far-right from the right-wing-politics wiki entry, since they're not rightwing :roll:

You're a generalizing douche nozzle.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: Phokus
Guess you should take out the far-right from the right-wing-politics wiki entry, since they're not rightwing :roll:

I don't understand the meaning of words 🙁

Fixed

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: sandorski
PSA: Sorry Righties, but your Extreme is Fascist/Nazi and thus just as horrid as the Lefts' Extreme.

Then why is everything Obama does resemble fascism? Every word out of his mouth, every idea?

huh? it doesn't... at all. in fact, the bush adminstration was the closest thing to fascism america's seen. look up what fascism is.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Perknose

American Neo-Nazis are principally about unbridled Aryan white power racism and HATE liberals and socialists with a passion. Are you really somehow unaware of this?

Quite a lot of people hate liberals and socialists with a passion. I'd more of a centrist and would never vote for a wacko like Bush or Palin, yet I think socialists are equally bad.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic

Originally posted by: Perknose
Why is it that the real face of lethal "domestic terrorism" in this century turns out time and time again to be a right winger?

Yeah, I'm sure MS-13 and the rest of America's gangs align with the right as well.

Stop being an idiot.

Smarter and more knowledgeable people than you are also seemingly unable to distinguish between groups like the Mafia and MS-13, which are simply groups of common criminals who kill in the pursuit of money and bling status, and REAL terrorists, defined as those who use terrorism to further a political ideology, which is what this murderous Nazi did and what that murderous fundie just did when he killed that doctor in Kansas.

Any meaningful definition of terrorism has been watered down to zilch, unless you count ALL felonious violence as terror, which would mean that three guys who hold up a string of convenience stores and shoot more than one clerk are now "domestic terrorists."

Yay for the idiocy of making language mean nothing! And yay for you, Chief, for happily playing along.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic

Originally posted by: Perknose
Why is it that the real face of lethal "domestic terrorism" in this century turns out time and time again to be a right winger?

Yeah, I'm sure MS-13 and the rest of America's gangs align with the right as well.

Stop being an idiot.

Smarter and more knowledgeable people than you are also seemingly unable to distinguish between groups like the Mafia and MS-13, which are simply groups of common criminals who kill in the pursuit of money and bling status, and REAL terrorists, defined as those who use terrorism to further a political ideology, which is what this murderous Nazi did and what that murderous fundie just did when he killed that doctor in Kansas.

Any meaningful definition of terrorism has been watered down to zilch, unless you count ALL felonious violence as terror, which would mean that three guys who hold up a string of convenience stores and shoot more than one clerk are now "domestic terrorists."

Yay for the idiocy of making language mean nothing! And yay for you, Chief, for happily playing along.

Just like the muslim (by every definition) terrorist who shot and killed an army recruiter to protest our military? If you want to play that game you have to see both sides. And his actions and motives are perfectly in line with the radical left wing.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: sandorski
PSA: Sorry Righties, but your Extreme is Fascist/Nazi and thus just as horrid as the Lefts' Extreme.

I hate to break it to you, but left vs right wing extremism is a myth. It's all the same.

 

[NoReMoRsE]

Guys, please stop arguing about ideology and right-wing and Nazi. That is for P&N. This thread was created to mark this sad event, not start a debate about technicalities.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Smarter and more knowledgeable people than you are also seemingly unable to distinguish between groups like the Mafia and MS-13, which are simply groups of common criminals who kill in the pursuit of money and bling status, and REAL terrorists, defined as those who use terrorism to further a political ideology, which is what this murderous Nazi did and what that murderous fundie just did when he killed that doctor in Kansas.

In all fairness, this guy sounds like he was just a random nutcase that gravitated towards extremist causes.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: sandorski
PSA: Sorry Righties, but your Extreme is Fascist/Nazi and thus just as horrid as the Lefts' Extreme.

I hate to break it to you, but left vs right wing extremism is a myth. It's all the same.

In some ways it's the same, but in others it is not. They are both as Extreme, but the underlying Philosophy that feeds the Extremism and the underlying Goals are very different.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic

Originally posted by: Perknose
Why is it that the real face of lethal "domestic terrorism" in this century turns out time and time again to be a right winger?

Yeah, I'm sure MS-13 and the rest of America's gangs align with the right as well.

Stop being an idiot.

Smarter and more knowledgeable people than you are also seemingly unable to distinguish between groups like the Mafia and MS-13, which are simply groups of common criminals who kill in the pursuit of money and bling status, and REAL terrorists, defined as those who use terrorism to further a political ideology, which is what this murderous Nazi did and what that murderous fundie just did when he killed that doctor in Kansas.

Any meaningful definition of terrorism has been watered down to zilch, unless you count ALL felonious violence as terror, which would mean that three guys who hold up a string of convenience stores and shoot more than one clerk are now "domestic terrorists."

Yay for the idiocy of making language mean nothing! And yay for you, Chief, for happily playing along.

Just like the muslim (by every definition) terrorist who shot and killed an army recruiter to protest our military? If you want to play that game you have to see both sides. And his actions and motives are perfectly in line with the radical left wing.

Muslim extremists support extreme right wing sharia law which denies women and gays and "unbelievers" basic human rights and is antithetical to every single tenet of modern liberal democracy, including the secular rule of law. They enforce a facist and brutal state theocracy. These backward fundamentalists are about as RIGHT WING as you can get. :roll:

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Perknose

Smarter and more knowledgeable people than you are also seemingly unable to distinguish between groups like the Mafia and MS-13, which are simply groups of common criminals who kill in the pursuit of money and bling status, and REAL terrorists, defined as those who use terrorism to further a political ideology, which is what this murderous Nazi did and what that murderous fundie just did when he killed that doctor in Kansas.

In all fairness, this guy sounds like he was just a random nutcase that gravitated towards extremist causes.

A nutcase, yes. Random, no. He killed complete strangers out of his racist political ideology. He did not "randomly" select the Holocaust Museum. Crazy? Yeah. But he is the very definition of a terrorist.

 

[ballmode]

this guy was a nutcase

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: sandorski
PSA: Sorry Righties, but your Extreme is Fascist/Nazi and thus just as horrid as the Lefts' Extreme.

I hate to break it to you, but left vs right wing extremism is a myth. It's all the same.

In some ways it's the same, but in others it is not. They are both as Extreme, but the underlying Philosophy that feeds the Extremism and the underlying Goals are very different.

In most cases, they are more alike than different, and they tend to use the same means to reach their intended goals.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic

Originally posted by: Perknose
Why is it that the real face of lethal "domestic terrorism" in this century turns out time and time again to be a right winger?

Yeah, I'm sure MS-13 and the rest of America's gangs align with the right as well.

Stop being an idiot.

Smarter and more knowledgeable people than you are also seemingly unable to distinguish between groups like the Mafia and MS-13, which are simply groups of common criminals who kill in the pursuit of money and bling status, and REAL terrorists, defined as those who use terrorism to further a political ideology, which is what this murderous Nazi did and what that murderous fundie just did when he killed that doctor in Kansas.

Any meaningful definition of terrorism has been watered down to zilch, unless you count ALL felonious violence as terror, which would mean that three guys who hold up a string of convenience stores and shoot more than one clerk are now "domestic terrorists."

Yay for the idiocy of making language mean nothing! And yay for you, Chief, for happily playing along.

Just like the muslim (by every definition) terrorist who shot and killed an army recruiter to protest our military? If you want to play that game you have to see both sides. And his actions and motives are perfectly in line with the radical left wing.

Radical muslims are rightwing you dolt. You think suppressing free speech, suppressing women's rights, demonizes sex, discriminates against gays, are religious fundies, etc. etc. are leftwing? hahaha you're retarded

But this coming from the guy who thought TWC was justified in capping bandwidth at 40gb a month because of financial concerns, i'm not surprised.