I love how much you live up to your name.
Please provide ANY evidence to support your statements. Oh, you can't, because you're 100% wrong. About 12,000,000 people in America carry a concealed weapon legally to soccer games and everywhere else they're allowed. Another big group carries them them illegally to these places, but not with any intent to cause harm. Therefore 'normally' when someone bring a gun anywhere, they ARE there for peaceful means.
You have the IQ of a fucking kumquat. How can you even type?
Concealed carry = legal in 48 states, some for up to 40ish years. Obviously you're EXACTLY wrong and basically everyone KNOWS AND ACCEPTS THAT. That's what's hard to understand...how you don't seem to get that.
Because those of us with guns have the facts, statistics, and studies on our sides. That makes our views on the subject the rational ones.
Holding an opinion in direct opposition to observable facts is irrational. Period.
Police say husband killed her. And he did it WHILE SHE WAS ON A WEB CAM with a friend. Friend saw hubby shoot her. 
http://www.google.com/hostedne...nKtV43aJPDpugD9B7P0780
"He "observed Scott Hain standing over where Meleanie was and discharging a handgun several times," Lebanon Police Chief Daniel Wright said at a news conference. The man, who was described as a friend of both Scott and Meleanie Hains, called 911."
http://www.google.com/hostedne...nKtV43aJPDpugD9B7P0780
"He "observed Scott Hain standing over where Meleanie was and discharging a handgun several times," Lebanon Police Chief Daniel Wright said at a news conference. The man, who was described as a friend of both Scott and Meleanie Hains, called 911."
He took away her CPL because he claimed she showed poor judgment by open carrying there. It was a shady attempt to fit the statutory requirements for license revocation, though to be fair the PA law is INCREDIBLY subjective about that. She appealed in court and won, with the courts stating she did not show questionable character or intent to harm as required under the law.
Yup, only 2 give nothing. About 8-10 of the others will almost never issue though, so it's equivalent to about 10 no-issue.
Originally posted by: spidey07
Police say husband killed her. And he did it WHILE SHE WAS ON A WEB CAM with a friend. Friend saw hubby shoot her.
http://www.google.com/hostedne...nKtV43aJPDpugD9B7P0780
"He "observed Scott Hain standing over where Meleanie was and discharging a handgun several times," Lebanon Police Chief Daniel Wright said at a news conference. The man, who was described as a friend of both Scott and Meleanie Hains, called 911."
Ok, well then this was just a horrible coincidence. While it's still tragic, I'm kind of glad it wasn't a result of what she went through. I guess this more or less makes the thread moot.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
- 66
- 91
The fact that CC is legal in many places (in most of them it is quite a recent development) does nothing to disprove what Mike said, unless you can somehow demonstrate that people frequently carry weapons to children's soccer games - I have no idea how you'd generate that data. Moreover, there are a significant number of "may issue" states that make it very difficult to get a CC permit (e.g., NY and CA), all of which you have listed among your 48.
Originally posted by: spidey07
Police say husband killed her. And he did it WHILE SHE WAS ON A WEB CAM with a friend. Friend saw hubby shoot her.
http://www.google.com/hostedne...nKtV43aJPDpugD9B7P0780
"He "observed Scott Hain standing over where Meleanie was and discharging a handgun several times," Lebanon Police Chief Daniel Wright said at a news conference. The man, who was described as a friend of both Scott and Meleanie Hains, called 911."
Jesus - the guy was a parole officer too - he worked for the cops. Not that it will bring anyone back, but I wonder why he did it...
shira
Diamond Member
- Jan 12, 2005
- 9,567
- 6
- 81
You're missing the point: We all see people in uniform packing sidearms. We're accustomed to it. And most of us have never had a scary interaction with such people. Such people aren't "strangers." Their uniform "marks" them as safe and trustworthy. So we feel safe.
Most of us NEVER see private citizens with sidearms. So a stranger packing a sidearm is scary. Stories of Columbine and Virginia Tech still haunt our psyche's, and those incidents involved private citizens with guns, not soldiers or the police.
Your bolded point is completely irrelevant: We don't know that the private citizen we see with a gun has a permit. And we can't read their minds. What we DO know is that police and the military as a group commit far fewer murders each year overall than private citizens as a group.
So YOUR point is fail.
What YOU can do with non-guns is irrelevant. The vast, vast majority of people can kill MUCH more easily with a gun than with any other implement. So when we see someone WITH a gun, the clear potential is there for that person to kill someone. When no gun is there, the potential is VERY likely absent.
I see a 10-year-old with a sidearm, I know he can kill me in seconds. I see a 10-year-old without a sidearm, it's overwhelmingly likely he can't kill me at all and the thought wouldn't even enter my mind.
Your point is fail.
School shootings require guns. Shootings at kids' soccer venues require guns. If someone has a gun at a kids' soccer venue, a shooting is possible. If no one has a gun at the soccer game, no shooting is possible.
Your point is fail.
I never have. I venture to state that almost none of us ever has. That's why this woman with her gun at the soccer game was news. So for almost all of us, a private citizen showing up with a sidearm at a kids' event would be a unique event.
Your point is fail.
VashHT
Diamond Member
- Feb 1, 2007
- 3,064
- 871
- 136
I don't see how statistics matter when it comes to my post at all, you'd have to show that guns can't hurt people in order to disprove my point. If you want to take chances with your life be my guest, but I certainly wouldn't ignore the fact that there is a single armed person in a crowd full of unarmed individuals. I wouldn't try to disarm or call the authorities on them, but I definitely would not be ignorant of the situation around me.
None of which changes the fact that there have been millions upon millions upon millions of people carrying their weapons everywhere they go for four decades, largely without incident. That obviously includes kids sporting events since people who carry often just carry everywhere (that IS kind of the point after all).
NO WHERE do people ONLY or even PRIMARILY 'bring guns just to shoot people'. To even suggest it is to declare yourself so totally ignorant and incompetent as to nullify any future impact of your opinions whatsoever.
In order to be rational a fear must be of something that isn't only a physical possibility, but a statistical probability. Knowing that lawfully carried weapons are not a statistically significant factor in being harmed, but ARE a significant factor in the prevention of harm, only side of the argument is rational.
prince of wands just compared his drivers license to a gun in it's ability to be a deadly weapon
/thread
/thread
It's scary to you, and to other ignorant and irrational people. The fear is from inside you, NOT from what it is you're seeing. Adults with functional minds are able to reach logical conclusions about such things and overcome initial emotional reactions.
You don't KNOW that the person in uniform is a cop or a soldier. You ASSUME they are. In other words, you don't THINK about the situation.
It's not because of special training (although yes, I did actually get taught that particular trick). Anyone who thought about it for 30 seconds could figure out how to kill you with a folding chair, a stick, a pencil, etc.
Just because you don't 'see' it doesn't mean it isn't there. The exact same potential exists rather you are aware of it or not. Therefore, it's not that you're safer, it's that you're assuming you're safer. In other words, again no thinking involved.
No shit it requires guns little beaver. So KNOWING that people show up to places where kids congregate in order to kill them it gives an immediate logical reason for carrying a defensive weapon there. Nothing about this, or any other act of gun control, prevents a criminal from showing up at an event and opening fire. ONLY an action such of this gives ANY hope of stopping the slaughter prematurely.
As I stated before, you cannot make the claim that 'that' is why this was news. There are a number of very reasonable possibilities. I can guarantee you that any number of people who haven't lived their entire lives in a major urban area have seen people with guns at random various places, including kids sporting events. Is it most? Probably not, but it's close enough as to render your point invalid.
Actually if you are carrying a gun around in your normal day to day activities then you are carrying it to shoot someone should the opportunity arise. Guns only serve a single purpose, they are a weapon. You would only carry a weapon if you had the mentality that you might want/need to use it. You do not draw a gun on someone if you do not intend to kill that person and you do not carry a gun if you do not think you might want to draw it. Therefore if you carry a weapon around then you think you might need to use it. If you carry a weapon and don't think you might need to use it you are just plain weird.
I would treat a person openly carrying a gun the same way I'd treat a person with a katana strapped to their back or carrying a compound bow and set of hunting arrows. Like a person I do not know carrying a weapon.
The key here isn't that they are carrying something deadly it is that they are carrying something whose only purpose is to be deadly.
And as has been mentioned legally being allowed to do something does not free you from being criticized for it.
Perhaps some people do, but they are mistaken and IMO it is wrong to blindly trust authorities.
I was pulled over once and questioned by the officer, typical BS questions like where are you going, where do you work, etc mostly done to gauge my response to see if I'm on alcohol or drugs and whatnot. I responded with "I'm sorry officer, I dont tell random strangers about my personal business." He was kind of taken aback by response but he was professional about it and we finished up, I ended up leaving with a warnng (I was probably helped by the fact that I had a concealed handgun license).
The point of the matter is that police officers and the like are strangers if you dont know them personally, they are individuals with their own thoughts and faults, and IMO I dont treat them any different than any other person simply because they have a badge and a gun. Yet some people think these are the only strangers that should be allowed a gun, which I feel is stupid.
Originally posted by: inspire
Originally posted by: spidey07
Police say husband killed her. And he did it WHILE SHE WAS ON A WEB CAM with a friend. Friend saw hubby shoot her.
http://www.google.com/hostedne...nKtV43aJPDpugD9B7P0780
"He "observed Scott Hain standing over where Meleanie was and discharging a handgun several times," Lebanon Police Chief Daniel Wright said at a news conference. The man, who was described as a friend of both Scott and Meleanie Hains, called 911."
Jesus - the guy was a parole officer too - he worked for the cops. Not that it will bring anyone back, but I wonder why he did it...
There were separating/divorcing. The leading cause of a murder suicide.
Not unique to most people, just to you. You may live in one of the funny states that don't allow open or concealed carry. It's really not as big a deal as you're making it out to be. And you feeling uncomfortable is still your problem/fear.
surfsatwerk
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2008
- 10,110
- 5
- 81
I've been to my fair share of childrens' sporting even and in no way, shape, or form would openly carrying a firearm be considered normal.
There's a reason why you nuts got CC, because the rest of the world kept calling the cops on you when you carried in public.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,459
- 854
- 126
Originally posted by: spidey07
Police say husband killed her. And he did it WHILE SHE WAS ON A WEB CAM with a friend. Friend saw hubby shoot her.
http://www.google.com/hostedne...nKtV43aJPDpugD9B7P0780
"He "observed Scott Hain standing over where Meleanie was and discharging a handgun several times," Lebanon Police Chief Daniel Wright said at a news conference. The man, who was described as a friend of both Scott and Meleanie Hains, called 911."
Ironic that owning a gun didn't prevent her from being killed by one...in her own home...by her husband...
Just goes to show you, you can't always trust people no matter how well you think you may know them. Which is EXACTLY the reason I don't want strangers wearing guns at a place where children, MY CHILDREN, are gathered to play soccer.
I don't know you from Adam so why should I automatically trust you because you don't have a criminal background and some government agency gave you a permit to carry a gun?
I'm not in the habit of blindly trusting people I don't know. I don't generally distrust them but I'm usually on fairly equal footing with most people I meet and I generally give most people the benefit of the doubt. Now, you give that person a gun and immediately it puts me on the defensive, I start thinking of what if scenarios...having a child will do that to you. Honestly, I'd rather avoid that altogether.
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