Gun toting soccer mom and husband dead in apparent murder/suicide

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
She and her husband sound like total idiots, and I can only conclude that the likeliest explanation is that the same narcissism that made them insist on openly carrying a gun at a friggin' soccer game is the same mentality that led to a murder-suicide with their kids in the house, ensuring the kids will never have normal lives. If that's what happened (obviously there are several other potential explanations), I hope they both rot in hell.

EDIT: Here is a picture of the late Mrs. Hain.

Please tell me how expressing ones rights is narcissim and how that type of mentality would make one want to commit suicide?

Apparently you are projecting your feelings as you don't actually know what the person in the article was feeling.

You can be a total jerk precisely for acting on your rights, especially if your actions show a callous disregard for others. For example, I would be fully within my rights to create and display the following bumper sticker, which tweaks two groups that I find insufferable:

Proud non-parent of a late-term aborted fetus

But if I did such a thing, it would be fair to call me an asshole for having so little sensitivity to the values of others.

So, yes, I think anyone who carries a firearm to a children's event has a truly warped sense of their own importance.

:thumbsup:

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
She and her husband sound like total idiots, and I can only conclude that the likeliest explanation is that the same narcissism that made them insist on openly carrying a gun at a friggin' soccer game is the same mentality that led to a murder-suicide with their kids in the house, ensuring the kids will never have normal lives. If that's what happened (obviously there are several other potential explanations), I hope they both rot in hell.

EDIT: Here is a picture of the late Mrs. Hain.

Please tell me how expressing ones rights is narcissim and how that type of mentality would make one want to commit suicide?

Apparently you are projecting your feelings as you don't actually know what the person in the article was feeling.

You can be a total jerk precisely for acting on your rights, especially if your actions show a callous disregard for others. For example, I would be fully within my rights to create and display the following bumper sticker, which tweaks two groups that I find insufferable:

Proud non-parent of a late-term aborted fetus

But if I did such a thing, it would be fair to call me an asshole for having so little sensitivity to the values of others.

So, yes, I think anyone who carries a firearm to a children's event has a truly warped sense of their own importance.

:thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

you have rights, and using those rights can and will make you a jackass if you abuse them for the sake of abusing them.

 

[piasabird]

People kill because they want to. You cant fix blood thristy criminals.

Why do we kill those we say we love? Just can't fix stupid.

 

[imported_inspire]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Please tell me how expressing ones rights is narcissim and how that type of mentality would make one want to commit suicide?

Apparently you are projecting your feelings as you don't actually know what the person in the article was feeling.

She had no "right" to bring a gun to a private event. I believe any sane person would agree it's stupid to openly carry a weapon at a children's sporting event, and any reasonable parent would object to this conduct. I see her insistence on the issue as entirely self-absorbed and crazy, and I also see a murder-suicide with children in the house as a self-absorbed and crazy act. Do I have to draw you a diagram or something?

Unless prohibited by law, she had the right. Considering that the woman had her CCW re-instated, she was obviously not breaking any law, so therefore, according to the Constitution of the United States of America, she had the right. Calling everyone who doesn't agree with you're viewpoint a moron is just flat out ignorant.

Reasonable parents don't freak out over guns, but I can understand a certain amount of alarm. Her insistence to exercise her rights is legal and justified. There have not been details as to who killed who or why.

A diagram would be helpful, maybe then you'd actually think about the retarded shit you post before hitting 'reply'.

 

[imported_inspire]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: alchemize
Why can't it just be a crazy person killed his spouse then himself? (assuming it was the guy that killed her).

Quite possible. Honestly my initial, hostile reaction was based on the assumption that she killed him, but the initial reports suggest that the opposite happened (or at least that's what the kids told neighbors). She strikes me as a total nut, and it's hard to believe that nuttiness didn't permeate their relationship, but I don't mean to imply that being a crazy person is a hanging offense.

As a (related) digression, I think it's unfortunate that some gun advocates are nuttier than squirrel poop. I myself am a gun owner, and generally support the rights of gun owners despite my generally liberal politics. People like this, though, taint the whole community of lawful gun owners by acting as though they've been persecuted because other parents aren't comfortable with them openly carrying at a child's sporting event. I think there are places where it's entirely appropriate to curtail open carry, and this is one.

extremist gun advocates like the NRA make other gun owners look bad.


<---- owns a gun

The NRA isn't a person, it's an organization. Extremist advocates make themselves look bad; the NRA doesn't do it for them. Nice try, though.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Gun toting soccor mom and husband dead in apparent murder/suicide

what the fuck is "soccor?"

you know when a title to a P&N thread has a spelling mistake, the whole thread kind of loses steam.

LOL it was late, I was tired. Sry.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: alchemize
Why can't it just be a crazy person killed his spouse then himself? (assuming it was the guy that killed her).

Quite possible. Honestly my initial, hostile reaction was based on the assumption that she killed him, but the initial reports suggest that the opposite happened (or at least that's what the kids told neighbors). She strikes me as a total nut, and it's hard to believe that nuttiness didn't permeate their relationship, but I don't mean to imply that being a crazy person is a hanging offense.

As a (related) digression, I think it's unfortunate that some gun advocates are nuttier than squirrel poop. I myself am a gun owner, and generally support the rights of gun owners despite my generally liberal politics. People like this, though, taint the whole community of lawful gun owners by acting as though they've been persecuted because other parents aren't comfortable with them openly carrying at a child's sporting event. I think there are places where it's entirely appropriate to curtail open carry, and this is one.

And I say you don't have a single fact to support that statement, and so you are advocating the overthrow of liberty and feedom, as well as completely ignoring Constitutional and statutory rule, for an emotional and ignorant outburst.

Now where does that leave us?

She stood up for her rights. If it makes you uncomfortable, seek to change the concealed carry laws so that people are forced to be scared of losing their rights from a reactionary public.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Please tell me how expressing ones rights is narcissim and how that type of mentality would make one want to commit suicide?

Apparently you are projecting your feelings as you don't actually know what the person in the article was feeling.

She had no "right" to bring a gun to a private event. I believe any sane person would agree it's stupid to openly carry a weapon at a children's sporting event, and any reasonable parent would object to this conduct. I see her insistence on the issue as entirely self-absorbed and crazy, and I also see a murder-suicide with children in the house as a self-absorbed and crazy act. Do I have to draw you a diagram or something?

Was the event private? On private property, sponsored by a private group/organization?

It's a fallacy to suggest that anyone with a different view is not sane or not reasonable. You have NO evidence to back that statement up. You are trying to make yourself secure in either your fear/ignorance, or your political position by creating imaginary categories based upon them.

 

[classy]

Its kinda ironic, she shows up with a loaded glock at a pee wee soccer game trying to be tough where clearly no one was her enemy. But when she needed to be strapped, she gets smoked. Its unfortunate, it really is, but more often then not, you live by the sword, you'll die by the sword.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Was the event private? On private property, sponsored by a private group/organization?

It's a fallacy to suggest that anyone with a different view is not sane or not reasonable. You have NO evidence to back that statement up. You are trying to make yourself secure in either your fear/ignorance, or your political position by creating imaginary categories based upon them.

I don't need "evidence" to support my opinion. It's an opinion which obviously differs from yours. I regard yours as absurd.

There is no legitimate reason for anyone to carry a pistol to a soccer game for 5-year-olds, and most parents would be highly disturbed by the presence of such a person. I know I would, and I am a gun owner. There have been numerous instances of unhinged parents attacking referees and coaches at such events, and I frankly would assume, if I were there, that the same kind of jackass who'd show up with a loaded gun would be likely to be just such a person. To me her actions are pointlessly narcissistic - her own desire to attract attention (er, I mean, protect herself from rogue 5-year-olds) outweighed everything else, including the comfort of every other person there.

I generally advocate for the rights of other gun owners, but people like you put a black mark on that entire cause. The idea that you're here posting, with what I gather is a straight face, that only an "emotional and ignorant" person would be bothered by this woman's conduct really says it all.

From my perspective the saddest thing about this sad story is that this idiotic woman ever had children. They now have to bear the consequences of being the orphans of two well-armed crackpots.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: inspire

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Please tell me how expressing ones rights is narcissim and how that type of mentality would make one want to commit suicide?

Apparently you are projecting your feelings as you don't actually know what the person in the article was feeling.

She had no "right" to bring a gun to a private event. I believe any sane person would agree it's stupid to openly carry a weapon at a children's sporting event, and any reasonable parent would object to this conduct. I see her insistence on the issue as entirely self-absorbed and crazy, and I also see a murder-suicide with children in the house as a self-absorbed and crazy act. Do I have to draw you a diagram or something?

Unless prohibited by law, she had the right. Considering that the woman had her CCW re-instated, she was obviously not breaking any law, so therefore, according to the Constitution of the United States of America, she had the right. Calling everyone who doesn't agree with you're viewpoint a moron is just flat out ignorant.

Reasonable parents don't freak out over guns, but I can understand a certain amount of alarm. Her insistence to exercise her rights is legal and justified. There have not been details as to who killed who or why.

A diagram would be helpful, maybe then you'd actually think about the retarded shit you post before hitting 'reply'.

Have you seen parents at their kid's sporting events? For some reason, half of them think their kid is going to be a superstar and they go nuts (and sometimes violent) at the refs and other parents when things don't go their way.

This lady didn't seem like the sane type to begin with.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: inspire

Unless prohibited by law, she had the right. Considering that the woman had her CCW re-instated, she was obviously not breaking any law, so therefore, according to the Constitution of the United States of America, she had the right. Calling everyone who doesn't agree with you're viewpoint a moron is just flat out ignorant.

Reasonable parents don't freak out over guns, but I can understand a certain amount of alarm. Her insistence to exercise her rights is legal and justified. There have not been details as to who killed who or why.

A diagram would be helpful, maybe then you'd actually think about the retarded shit you post before hitting 'reply'.

Physician, heal thyself.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Was the event private? On private property, sponsored by a private group/organization?

It's a fallacy to suggest that anyone with a different view is not sane or not reasonable. You have NO evidence to back that statement up. You are trying to make yourself secure in either your fear/ignorance, or your political position by creating imaginary categories based upon them.

I don't need "evidence" to support my opinion. It's an opinion which obviously differs from yours. I regard yours as absurd.

There is no legitimate reason for anyone to carry a pistol to a soccer game for 5-year-olds, and most parents would be highly disturbed by the presence of such a person. I know I would, and I am a gun owner. There have been numerous instances of unhinged parents attacking referees and coaches at such events, and I frankly would assume, if I were there, that the same kind of jackass who'd show up with a loaded gun would be likely to be just such a person. To me her actions are pointlessly narcissistic - her own desire to attract attention (er, I mean, protect herself from rogue 5-year-olds) outweighed everything else, including the comfort of every other person there.

I generally advocate for the rights of other gun owners, but people like you put a black mark on that entire cause. The idea that you're here posting, with what I gather is a straight face, that only an "emotional and ignorant" person would be bothered by this woman's conduct really says it all.

From my perspective the saddest thing about this sad story is that this idiotic woman ever had children. They now have to bear the consequences of being the orphans of two well-armed crackpots.

YOU say there is no legitimate reason, without providing any foundation for such a statement. YOU claim 'most parents' without providing any foundation for such a statement. YOU assume things about people, while providing no foundation for such assumptions besides 'it's just my opinion'. Unfortunately YOU aren't in charge of jack, YOU don't get to dictate law nor societal standards, and YOUR opinion isn't the basis of psychiatric evaluation. In other words, you have an opinion with absolutely no logical nor statistical support to it. It's effectively straight out of your ass. I was nice enough to let you know where your opinion came from (categorization and demonizing for self-reaffirmation).

Now, you say I have a different opinion that you don't respect...however MY opinion comes with Constitutional and statutory support. MY opinion comes with historical support. MY opinion comes with statistical support. MY opinion comes with rational argumentation. It's true you don't have to respect that, but think about where that puts you as far as credibility of opinion.

In other words, you're the type of ignorant, reactionary individual with no regard for reason or justice which causes events like the one this thread is about. If people would take responsibility to become educated, and reach rational conclusions from available data, these things might be avoided in the future which is EXACTLY why I made this thread in the first place. To remind people that their ignorance, their emotional outbursts and reactionary nature, can lead to serious (even lethal) outcomes.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Guns suck. Stupid bitch wearing one to a soccer game.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Was the event private? On private property, sponsored by a private group/organization?

It's a fallacy to suggest that anyone with a different view is not sane or not reasonable. You have NO evidence to back that statement up. You are trying to make yourself secure in either your fear/ignorance, or your political position by creating imaginary categories based upon them.

I don't need "evidence" to support my opinion. It's an opinion which obviously differs from yours. I regard yours as absurd.

There is no legitimate reason for anyone to carry a pistol to a soccer game for 5-year-olds, and most parents would be highly disturbed by the presence of such a person. I know I would, and I am a gun owner. There have been numerous instances of unhinged parents attacking referees and coaches at such events, and I frankly would assume, if I were there, that the same kind of jackass who'd show up with a loaded gun would be likely to be just such a person. To me her actions are pointlessly narcissistic - her own desire to attract attention (er, I mean, protect herself from rogue 5-year-olds) outweighed everything else, including the comfort of every other person there.

I generally advocate for the rights of other gun owners, but people like you put a black mark on that entire cause. The idea that you're here posting, with what I gather is a straight face, that only an "emotional and ignorant" person would be bothered by this woman's conduct really says it all.

From my perspective the saddest thing about this sad story is that this idiotic woman ever had children. They now have to bear the consequences of being the orphans of two well-armed crackpots.

YOU say there is no legitimate reason, without providing any foundation for such a statement. YOU claim 'most parents' without providing any foundation for such a statement. YOU assume things about people, while providing no foundation for such assumptions besides 'it's just my opinion'. Unfortunately YOU aren't in charge of jack, YOU don't get to dictate law nor societal standards, and YOUR opinion isn't the basis of psychiatric evaluation. In other words, you have an opinion with absolutely no logical nor statistical support to it. It's effectively straight out of your ass. I was nice enough to let you know where your opinion came from (categorization and demonizing for self-reaffirmation).

Now, you say I have a different opinion that you don't respect...however MY opinion comes with Constitutional and statutory support. MY opinion comes with historical support. MY opinion comes with statistical support. MY opinion comes with rational argumentation.

In other words, you're the type of ignorant, reactionary individual with no regard for reason or justice which causes events like the one this thread is about. If people would take responsibility to become educated, and reach rational conclusions from available data, these things might be avoided in the future which is EXACTLY why I made this thread in the first place. To remind people that their ignorance, their emotional outbursts and reactionary nature, can lead to serious (even lethal) outcomes.

Anyone that carries a piece to a kids soccer game is a retard of the highest order.

Quoting the constitution and your rights isn't going to change that fact.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Was the event private? On private property, sponsored by a private group/organization?

It's a fallacy to suggest that anyone with a different view is not sane or not reasonable. You have NO evidence to back that statement up. You are trying to make yourself secure in either your fear/ignorance, or your political position by creating imaginary categories based upon them.

I don't need "evidence" to support my opinion. It's an opinion which obviously differs from yours. I regard yours as absurd.

There is no legitimate reason for anyone to carry a pistol to a soccer game for 5-year-olds, and most parents would be highly disturbed by the presence of such a person. I know I would, and I am a gun owner. There have been numerous instances of unhinged parents attacking referees and coaches at such events, and I frankly would assume, if I were there, that the same kind of jackass who'd show up with a loaded gun would be likely to be just such a person. To me her actions are pointlessly narcissistic - her own desire to attract attention (er, I mean, protect herself from rogue 5-year-olds) outweighed everything else, including the comfort of every other person there.

I generally advocate for the rights of other gun owners, but people like you put a black mark on that entire cause. The idea that you're here posting, with what I gather is a straight face, that only an "emotional and ignorant" person would be bothered by this woman's conduct really says it all.

From my perspective the saddest thing about this sad story is that this idiotic woman ever had children. They now have to bear the consequences of being the orphans of two well-armed crackpots.

YOU say there is no legitimate reason, without providing any foundation for such a statement. YOU claim 'most parents' without providing any foundation for such a statement. YOU assume things about people, while providing no foundation for such assumptions besides 'it's just my opinion'. Unfortunately YOU aren't in charge of jack, YOU don't get to dictate law nor societal standards, and YOUR opinion isn't the basis of psychiatric evaluation. In other words, you have an opinion with absolutely no logical nor statistical support to it. It's effectively straight out of your ass. I was nice enough to let you know where your opinion came from (categorization and demonizing for self-reaffirmation).

Now, you say I have a different opinion that you don't respect...however MY opinion comes with Constitutional and statutory support. MY opinion comes with historical support. MY opinion comes with statistical support. MY opinion comes with rational argumentation.

In other words, you're the type of ignorant, reactionary individual with no regard for reason or justice which causes events like the one this thread is about. If people would take responsibility to become educated, and reach rational conclusions from available data, these things might be avoided in the future which is EXACTLY why I made this thread in the first place. To remind people that their ignorance, their emotional outbursts and reactionary nature, can lead to serious (even lethal) outcomes.

Anyone that carries a piece to a kids soccer game is a retard of the highest order.

Quoting the constitution and your rights isn't going to change that fact.

And your 45IQ ass saying that doesn't make it so (any more than me saying you're a 45iq dumbass actually makes you one). Until you can make a rational and supported argument showing what you claim to be true, you're just a douchebag with an unsubstantiated opinion.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Was the event private? On private property, sponsored by a private group/organization?

It's a fallacy to suggest that anyone with a different view is not sane or not reasonable. You have NO evidence to back that statement up. You are trying to make yourself secure in either your fear/ignorance, or your political position by creating imaginary categories based upon them.

I don't need "evidence" to support my opinion. It's an opinion which obviously differs from yours. I regard yours as absurd.

There is no legitimate reason for anyone to carry a pistol to a soccer game for 5-year-olds, and most parents would be highly disturbed by the presence of such a person. I know I would, and I am a gun owner. There have been numerous instances of unhinged parents attacking referees and coaches at such events, and I frankly would assume, if I were there, that the same kind of jackass who'd show up with a loaded gun would be likely to be just such a person. To me her actions are pointlessly narcissistic - her own desire to attract attention (er, I mean, protect herself from rogue 5-year-olds) outweighed everything else, including the comfort of every other person there.

I generally advocate for the rights of other gun owners, but people like you put a black mark on that entire cause. The idea that you're here posting, with what I gather is a straight face, that only an "emotional and ignorant" person would be bothered by this woman's conduct really says it all.

From my perspective the saddest thing about this sad story is that this idiotic woman ever had children. They now have to bear the consequences of being the orphans of two well-armed crackpots.

YOU say there is no legitimate reason, without providing any foundation for such a statement. YOU claim 'most parents' without providing any foundation for such a statement. YOU assume things about people, while providing no foundation for such assumptions besides 'it's just my opinion'. Unfortunately YOU aren't in charge of jack, YOU don't get to dictate law nor societal standards, and YOUR opinion isn't the basis of psychiatric evaluation. In other words, you have an opinion with absolutely no logical nor statistical support to it. It's effectively straight out of your ass. I was nice enough to let you know where your opinion came from (categorization and demonizing for self-reaffirmation).

Now, you say I have a different opinion that you don't respect...however MY opinion comes with Constitutional and statutory support. MY opinion comes with historical support. MY opinion comes with statistical support. MY opinion comes with rational argumentation.

In other words, you're the type of ignorant, reactionary individual with no regard for reason or justice which causes events like the one this thread is about. If people would take responsibility to become educated, and reach rational conclusions from available data, these things might be avoided in the future which is EXACTLY why I made this thread in the first place. To remind people that their ignorance, their emotional outbursts and reactionary nature, can lead to serious (even lethal) outcomes.

Anyone that carries a piece to a kids soccer game is a retard of the highest order.

Quoting the constitution and your rights isn't going to change that fact.

And your 45IQ ass saying that doesn't make it so (any more than me saying you're a 45iq dumbass actually makes you one). Until you can make a rational and supported argument showing what you claim to be true, you're just a douchebag with an unsubstantiated opinion.

I'm honestly curious. Your child like attacks aside.

You actually think it's a good idea to not only bring a gun to a kids soccer game, but to also have it visible?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky


I'm honestly curious. Your child like attacks aside.

You actually think it's a good idea to not only bring a gun to a kids soccer game, but to also have it visible?

I personally don't see anything wrong with it. Notice I didn't say if it's a good idea or not, I just don't think it's a bad idea. If you're going to carry, carry everywhere (except for places it's illegal or property owner says and posts sign they are not allowed). If kids or other parents are scared of seeing a gun then they need a little more education about them and it truly is their problem. Kids should be exposed to guns at an early age to understand exactly what they are, how they operate, don't touch if it isn't yours, etc. Basic safety. There was a time when we taught kids this in school and we should return to those days.

From reading more about this incident husband had all the warning signs of something like this happening. They were separated, she was seeking a protective order, etc. It's a shame she could not have defended herself.

 

[Sclamoz]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky


I'm honestly curious. Your child like attacks aside.

You actually think it's a good idea to not only bring a gun to a kids soccer game, but to also have it visible?

I personally don't see anything wrong with it. Notice I didn't say if it's a good idea or not, I just don't think it's a bad idea. If you're going to carry, carry everywhere (except for places it's illegal or property owner says and posts sign they are not allowed). If kids or other parents are scared of seeing a gun then they need a little more education about them and it truly is their problem. Kids should be exposed to guns at an early age to understand exactly what they are, how they operate, don't touch if it isn't yours, etc. Basic safety. There was a time when we taught kids this in school and we should return to those days.

I sometimes think that people are scared of seeing guns on people in situations like this because the person carrying them might be a maniac capable of murder, you know?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Sclamoz


I sometimes think that people are scared of seeing guns on people in situations like this because the person carrying them might be a maniac capable of murder, you know?

Well I still say if they feel that way that is their own irrational fear. A fear born mostly out of not being around firearms or knowing the rules of safety. A person legally carrying generally cherishes that right and has no motivation whatsoever to have it taken away (like committing a crime).

I will tend to stay close to somebody carrying if I'm not (I rarely do) and make friends with them. I still think it boils down to an irrational fear of firearms.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

YOU say there is no legitimate reason, without providing any foundation for such a statement. YOU claim 'most parents' without providing any foundation for such a statement. YOU assume things about people, while providing no foundation for such assumptions besides 'it's just my opinion'. Unfortunately YOU aren't in charge of jack, YOU don't get to dictate law nor societal standards, and YOUR opinion isn't the basis of psychiatric evaluation. In other words, you have an opinion with absolutely no logical nor statistical support to it. It's effectively straight out of your ass. I was nice enough to let you know where your opinion came from (categorization and demonizing for self-reaffirmation).

Now, you say I have a different opinion that you don't respect...however MY opinion comes with Constitutional and statutory support. MY opinion comes with historical support. MY opinion comes with statistical support. MY opinion comes with rational argumentation. It's true you don't have to respect that, but think about where that puts you as far as credibility of opinion.

In other words, you're the type of ignorant, reactionary individual with no regard for reason or justice which causes events like the one this thread is about. If people would take responsibility to become educated, and reach rational conclusions from available data, these things might be avoided in the future which is EXACTLY why I made this thread in the first place. To remind people that their ignorance, their emotional outbursts and reactionary nature, can lead to serious (even lethal) outcomes.

Let me ask you this - what do you think of the God Hates Fags clan? Do you think it's wrong to criticize them? After all, they're just engaging in Constitutionally protected free speech, and you have no "evidence" to support your opinion, to the extent you take exception to their protesting military funerals.

So, seriously, what do you think of them?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Was the event private? On private property, sponsored by a private group/organization?

It's a fallacy to suggest that anyone with a different view is not sane or not reasonable. You have NO evidence to back that statement up. You are trying to make yourself secure in either your fear/ignorance, or your political position by creating imaginary categories based upon them.

I don't need "evidence" to support my opinion. It's an opinion which obviously differs from yours. I regard yours as absurd.

There is no legitimate reason for anyone to carry a pistol to a soccer game for 5-year-olds, and most parents would be highly disturbed by the presence of such a person. I know I would, and I am a gun owner. There have been numerous instances of unhinged parents attacking referees and coaches at such events, and I frankly would assume, if I were there, that the same kind of jackass who'd show up with a loaded gun would be likely to be just such a person. To me her actions are pointlessly narcissistic - her own desire to attract attention (er, I mean, protect herself from rogue 5-year-olds) outweighed everything else, including the comfort of every other person there.

I generally advocate for the rights of other gun owners, but people like you put a black mark on that entire cause. The idea that you're here posting, with what I gather is a straight face, that only an "emotional and ignorant" person would be bothered by this woman's conduct really says it all.

From my perspective the saddest thing about this sad story is that this idiotic woman ever had children. They now have to bear the consequences of being the orphans of two well-armed crackpots.

YOU say there is no legitimate reason, without providing any foundation for such a statement. YOU claim 'most parents' without providing any foundation for such a statement. YOU assume things about people, while providing no foundation for such assumptions besides 'it's just my opinion'. Unfortunately YOU aren't in charge of jack, YOU don't get to dictate law nor societal standards, and YOUR opinion isn't the basis of psychiatric evaluation. In other words, you have an opinion with absolutely no logical nor statistical support to it. It's effectively straight out of your ass. I was nice enough to let you know where your opinion came from (categorization and demonizing for self-reaffirmation).

Now, you say I have a different opinion that you don't respect...however MY opinion comes with Constitutional and statutory support. MY opinion comes with historical support. MY opinion comes with statistical support. MY opinion comes with rational argumentation.

In other words, you're the type of ignorant, reactionary individual with no regard for reason or justice which causes events like the one this thread is about. If people would take responsibility to become educated, and reach rational conclusions from available data, these things might be avoided in the future which is EXACTLY why I made this thread in the first place. To remind people that their ignorance, their emotional outbursts and reactionary nature, can lead to serious (even lethal) outcomes.

Anyone that carries a piece to a kids soccer game is a retard of the highest order.

Quoting the constitution and your rights isn't going to change that fact.

And your 45IQ ass saying that doesn't make it so (any more than me saying you're a 45iq dumbass actually makes you one). Until you can make a rational and supported argument showing what you claim to be true, you're just a douchebag with an unsubstantiated opinion.

I'm honestly curious. Your child like attacks aside.

You actually think it's a good idea to not only bring a gun to a kids soccer game, but to also have it visible?

Yes, it's a good idea for anyone who chooses to carry a firearm to do so absolutely everywhere it's legal (I carry everywhere but the bed and the shower), and in fact I would argue that no location (except MAYBE secured locations) should be illegal. That doesn't mean everyone should do it, it means everyone who has chosen to carry a firearm should do it always so that they can train proper habits and react accordingly in emergencies.

The visible thing is tough. I prefer concealed carry, but I understand her choice in this instance. Concealed laws are often irrational, and we who carry are SEVERELY penalized for stupid issues beyond our logical control (barely imprinting, rare glimpses of only a portion of a weapon, etc). Were the laws reasonable, then I would say she should carry concealed - but if the laws were reasonable she would have. That was the whole point. I have nothing against open carry when it is common enough, but until/unless it is I think concealed is a better choice.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

YOU say there is no legitimate reason, without providing any foundation for such a statement. YOU claim 'most parents' without providing any foundation for such a statement. YOU assume things about people, while providing no foundation for such assumptions besides 'it's just my opinion'. Unfortunately YOU aren't in charge of jack, YOU don't get to dictate law nor societal standards, and YOUR opinion isn't the basis of psychiatric evaluation. In other words, you have an opinion with absolutely no logical nor statistical support to it. It's effectively straight out of your ass. I was nice enough to let you know where your opinion came from (categorization and demonizing for self-reaffirmation).

Now, you say I have a different opinion that you don't respect...however MY opinion comes with Constitutional and statutory support. MY opinion comes with historical support. MY opinion comes with statistical support. MY opinion comes with rational argumentation. It's true you don't have to respect that, but think about where that puts you as far as credibility of opinion.

In other words, you're the type of ignorant, reactionary individual with no regard for reason or justice which causes events like the one this thread is about. If people would take responsibility to become educated, and reach rational conclusions from available data, these things might be avoided in the future which is EXACTLY why I made this thread in the first place. To remind people that their ignorance, their emotional outbursts and reactionary nature, can lead to serious (even lethal) outcomes.

Let me ask you this - what do you think of the God Hates Fags clan? Do you think it's wrong to criticize them? After all, they're just engaging in Constitutionally protected free speech, and you have no "evidence" to support your opinion, to the extent you take exception to their protesting military funerals.

So, seriously, what do you think of them?

Before I give my response to this I'd like to think it over because you may have a valid point of comparison here. I'll get back to you.

 

[Sclamoz]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Sclamoz


I sometimes think that people are scared of seeing guns on people in situations like this because the person carrying them might be a maniac capable of murder, you know?

Well I still say if they feel that way that is their own irrational fear. A fear born mostly out of not being around firearms or knowing the rules of safety. A person legally carrying generally cherishes that right and has no motivation whatsoever to have it taken away (like committing a crime).

"Generally" yes, but humans can't read minds, so from the surface people can't tell if that stranger carrying is a threat or not. I would say it would be irrational for people not to be concerned that someone you don't know who is walking around with a gun could draw it and end your life w/ a pull of a trigger.

So would you say the people in the first story involving the woman and her husband at the soccer game who were nervous were acting irrational even though the couple ended up dead from gunshot wounds?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Sclamoz

"Generally" yes, but humans can't read minds, so from the surface people can't tell if that stranger carrying is a threat or not. I would say it would be irrational for people not to be concerned that someone you don't know who is walking around with a gun could draw it and end your life w/ a pull of a trigger.

So would you say the people in the first story involving the woman and her husband at the soccer game who were nervous were acting irrational even though the couple ended up dead from gunshot wounds?

Absolutely. You can't go back in time and say "see, I told you so". Well I guess logically you can but this is one incident that got attention because of a citizen, a woman, fighting for her right to protect herself against threats outside her home, at a soccer game.

In the end this is a tragic story and IMHO has nothing to do with the carry debate. If she wasn't in the news before because of her challenge and suit I can guarantee you her death wouldn't be in the national news.

Sad, but it's just another murder-suicide between lovers. It's just sad and that's all it is IMHO.