Gun question: Which is better 9mm or 10mm?

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: sic wil
I keep one of these in my nightstand just in case

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/abrams.htm

:thumbsup:

mmm... time to save up 5.6million dollars...

 

[Fingers]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Fingers

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Promethply
May want to consider the 45 Caliber auto instead:

The 45 Caliber automatic has a very effective stopping power

as long as the other guy's not wearing armor.

It's been proven in WW2, and until recently, before being taken over by the Beretta 9mm auto.

Usually, the downsides are that 45 Cal auto pistols' single action, which requires you to cock the trigger for the first shot,

the magazine only holds 7 bullets,

and the high trajectory of the bullet.

Wow, you know almost nothing about this yet you make all these statements as though you do.

eh, 2 of his points are true and 1 is sometimes true and I have never heard the term high trajectory ever used in conjunction with any handgun round. Sorry but you won't be hitting anybody at 500yards with a handgun.

That's why I said he "knows almost nothing about this." 😉

Yeah, I don't know WTF he's talking about "high trajectory bullet"...

.45 ACP drops more than a 9mm at the same distance. Standard .45 ACP ammo is one of the slowest handgun calibers there is at about 900fps.

Thats why I buy +P for mine. I'd prefer the big hole over velocity so this is the best of both world without coughing up the dough for a .500SW mag, plus mine hard enough to carry concealed.

 

[mwmorph]

I stilldont understand why anyon would recommend an auto pistol for someone so unlikely to use it. it's not like the whole mafia crew are coming over, most likely 1 person, and no matter what, unless that person is hopped oup on adrenline so much from runnng form cops/robbing the neighbors so much, a lowly 9mm to the chest/abdomen/head area will drop him.

if you arent in a high risk area, a 9mm would be fine. no like you are in the marines or something.

 

[Fingers]

Originally posted by: dnuggett
sic will posted:

The target will be at most 20 feet away from you, and you don't NEED to shoot to kill.

That thinking is absolutely wrong. The only reason to shoot is to kill.

Wrong, that logic will get you put under the jail. The object is to shoot to protect yourself. To be most effective that requires doing the most damage possible. But the reason for shots placed where they are suppossed to is for protection of yourself, not killing.

 

[Fingers]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
I stilldont understand why anyon would recommend an auto pistol for someone so unlikely to use it. it's not like the whole mafia crew are coming over, most likely 1 person, and no matter what, unless that person is hopped oup on adrenline so much from runnng form cops/robbing the neighbors so much, a lowly 9mm to the chest/abdomen/head area will drop him.

People react to gunshots differently. Look it up and you will see stories of people dropping like a rock with a shot from a .22LR and peale who have a 12 gauge slug right through the heart where the police could actually see throught the person still taking well aimed shots and dropping 35 seconds later.

The only thing you can garuntee on your end is the amount of damage done, not how the person will react. Best bet is the most power that you can afford/handle accurately. sometimes concealment is a concern but can still be dealt with.

 

[Sunbird]

Hey, so if a shotgun is good, what having a flamethrower?! :evil:

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Fingers

Originally posted by: mwmorph
I stilldont understand why anyon would recommend an auto pistol for someone so unlikely to use it. it's not like the whole mafia crew are coming over, most likely 1 person, and no matter what, unless that person is hopped oup on adrenline so much from runnng form cops/robbing the neighbors so much, a lowly 9mm to the chest/abdomen/head area will drop him.

People react to gunshots differently. Look it up and you will see stories of people dropping like a rock with a shot from a .22LR and peale who have a 12 gauge slug right through the heart where the police could actually see throught the person still taking well aimed shots and dropping 35 seconds later.

The only thing you can garuntee on your end is the amount of damage done, not how the person will react. Best bet is the most power that you can afford/handle accurately. sometimes concealment is a concern but can still be dealt with.

Meh, i still have probl;ems with the killing part. too much trouble. id rather have to go to court and testify against a live defendant than have to risk 25 to life. in the marines or at my local range, it's ok to go overboard and use AP 5.56mm and .50cal eounds but when in civil defence, i prefer to use what is needed and no more.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Fingers

Originally posted by: dnuggett
sic will posted:

The target will be at most 20 feet away from you, and you don't NEED to shoot to kill.

That thinking is absolutely wrong. The only reason to shoot is to kill.

Wrong, that logic will get you put under the jail. The object is to shoot to protect yourself. To be most effective that requires doing the most damage possible. But the reason for shots placed where they are suppossed to is for protection of yourself, not killing.

I think what he meant is that if you brandish your weapon in a confrontation, be prepared to use it. Pulling out your gun against an armed intruder only ensures that he's going to try to defend himself too. Either don't show your gun and try to disarm the situation or shoot to kill.

 

[Fingers]

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: LeadMagnet

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: LeadMagnet
shotgun is best

Sure, if you want to mud'n'tape your entire front living room after pumping one round at the guy who just busted in the front door.

For a one shot chance to protect my family - I don't mind spackeling and painting the holes in the walls.

Jeez, how many of you guys have actually fired a shot gun. They don't spread as much as you're implying, and 25 yards most will spread between 1.5 and 3.5 feet depending on barrel leangth and choke tubes. Keep in mind I'm refering to shotgun legal for civilains to purchase.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Meh, i still have probl;ems with the killing part. too much trouble. id rather have to go to court and testify against a live defendant than have to risk 25 to life. in the marines or at my local range, it's ok to go overboard and use AP 5.56mm and .50cal eounds but when in civil defence, i prefer to use what is needed and no more.

If you are concerned about the legal aspect, then by all means kill him. You are MUCH, MUCH more likely to get in trouble for wounding someone than killing them. It sounds strange at first, but when you think about it, it's better to have only one side to the story. If you wound an intruder, you are almost guaranteed that he's going to lie in court and try to get you in trouble. But if you kill him, he can't do that. Dead people don't lie, and they don't sue you. Let there only be one side to the story-yours.

 

[Fingers]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Fingers

Originally posted by: mwmorph
I stilldont understand why anyon would recommend an auto pistol for someone so unlikely to use it. it's not like the whole mafia crew are coming over, most likely 1 person, and no matter what, unless that person is hopped oup on adrenline so much from runnng form cops/robbing the neighbors so much, a lowly 9mm to the chest/abdomen/head area will drop him.

People react to gunshots differently. Look it up and you will see stories of people dropping like a rock with a shot from a .22LR and peale who have a 12 gauge slug right through the heart where the police could actually see throught the person still taking well aimed shots and dropping 35 seconds later.

The only thing you can garuntee on your end is the amount of damage done, not how the person will react. Best bet is the most power that you can afford/handle accurately. sometimes concealment is a concern but can still be dealt with.

Meh, i still have probl;ems with the killing part. too much trouble. id rather have to go to court and testify against a live defendant than have to risk 25 to life. in the marines or at my local range, it's ok to go overboard and use AP 5.56mm and .50cal eounds but when in civil defence, i prefer to use what is needed and no more.

5.56 is and always will be a groundhog round 🙂😉 just because the military uses it won't change my mind.

Unless the person has family doing it on their behalf it's harder for them to sue you when they are dead.🙂

 

[Sunbird]

Hey, why not have a shotgun and flamethrower in one?!

Its easier to hit someone with a continuous stream of flames (that whole important first shot thing), then you have a well lit target to pump full of lead.

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: MrBond
If you're dead set on one of the two, I'd say 9mm only because it's cheaper and you won't be tempted not to practice because ammunition is expensive.

45ACP is the most correct choice for a CCW gun 😉

Booo! .357 Sig. 😀

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: BDawg

Originally posted by: MrBond
If you're dead set on one of the two, I'd say 9mm only because it's cheaper and you won't be tempted not to practice because ammunition is expensive.

45ACP is the most correct choice for a CCW gun 😉

Booo! .357 Sig. 😀

Coonan .357 Magnum

Text

😀

 

[spacejamz]

Academy has Winchester 9mm 115 gr 50 round box for $3.86 everyday...at least the one by me does...The Blazer ammo is even cheaper I think...

Oshmans/Sports Authority usually has it for $9 a box (on sale, it goes down to $5.00)...

 

[Fingers]

Why does every body keep going tot he cost of ammo issue. I thought I wasn't all that well off being a lousy commercial fisherman and going to college at the same time. Some of you guys must be dirt ass poor if that's an issue.

The cost for most handgun ammo is with a couple dollars a box. Not that much money.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Fingers

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Fingers

Originally posted by: mwmorph
I stilldont understand why anyon would recommend an auto pistol for someone so unlikely to use it. it's not like the whole mafia crew are coming over, most likely 1 person, and no matter what, unless that person is hopped oup on adrenline so much from runnng form cops/robbing the neighbors so much, a lowly 9mm to the chest/abdomen/head area will drop him.

People react to gunshots differently. Look it up and you will see stories of people dropping like a rock with a shot from a .22LR and peale who have a 12 gauge slug right through the heart where the police could actually see throught the person still taking well aimed shots and dropping 35 seconds later.

The only thing you can garuntee on your end is the amount of damage done, not how the person will react. Best bet is the most power that you can afford/handle accurately. sometimes concealment is a concern but can still be dealt with.

Meh, i still have probl;ems with the killing part. too much trouble. id rather have to go to court and testify against a live defendant than have to risk 25 to life. in the marines or at my local range, it's ok to go overboard and use AP 5.56mm and .50cal eounds but when in civil defence, i prefer to use what is needed and no more.

5.56 is and always will be a groundhog round 🙂😉 just because the military uses it won't change my mind.

Unless the person has family doing it on their behalf it's harder for them to sue you when they are dead.🙂

well the 5.56 we use in the marines is a AP round(green tip, model XM995). it is supposed to be able to penetrate 12mm armor plate at 100m straight on 90degree shot. it is also effective to 120mm plexiglass at 100m 90degree and causes minimal to no barrel wear. It is a excellent round for most purposes.(though the AP rounds didnt work too well in somalia where the people didnt wear any armor and thus, the bullets went straight through instead of causing extensive trauma and thus sometimes took up to 9 rounds to take down a drugged up hostile)

Besides, NATO regulations force all member countries(except france which has large stocks of 5.45 or something like it) to use it.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Fingers
Why does every body keep going tot he cost of ammo issue. I thought I wasn't all that well off being a lousy commercial fisherman and going to college at the same time. Some of you guys must be dirt ass poor if that's an issue.

The cost for most handgun ammo is with a couple dollars a box. Not that much money.

If you shoot a lot it adds up. Especially as you get into the more exotic/obsolete rounds.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Fingers

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: LeadMagnet

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: LeadMagnet
shotgun is best

Sure, if you want to mud'n'tape your entire front living room after pumping one round at the guy who just busted in the front door.

For a one shot chance to protect my family - I don't mind spackeling and painting the holes in the walls.

Jeez, how many of you guys have actually fired a shot gun. They don't spread as much as you're implying, and 25 yards most will spread between 1.5 and 3.5 feet depending on barrel leangth and choke tubes. Keep in mind I'm refering to shotgun legal for civilains to purchase.

Quoted for truth. I've missed targets only 10 feet away while shooting from the hip (I was firing 12 gauge 3" magum rounds and could only manage to fire 2 shots from the shoulder before it hurt too much to do that again).

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: Sunbird
Hey, why not have a shotgun and flamethrower in one?!

Its easier to hit someone with a continuous stream of flames (that whole important first shot thing), then you have a well lit target to pump full of lead.

You can have a shotgun loaded with flame shells. They're called Dragon's Breath, I believe.

As for shooting to kill, you never aim a pistol at anything you aren't prepared to kill. If you're willing to pull your weapon, you have to be willing to kill.

 

[shuan24]

Originally posted by: Fingers
Why does every body keep going tot he cost of ammo issue. I thought I wasn't all that well off being a lousy commercial fisherman and going to college at the same time. Some of you guys must be dirt ass poor if that's an issue.

The cost for most handgun ammo is with a couple dollars a box. Not that much money.

If you're saying the difference between $5 a box and $16.99 a box is not that much money, then I beg to differ.

 

[Fingers]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Fingers

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Fingers

Originally posted by: mwmorph
I stilldont understand why anyon would recommend an auto pistol for someone so unlikely to use it. it's not like the whole mafia crew are coming over, most likely 1 person, and no matter what, unless that person is hopped oup on adrenline so much from runnng form cops/robbing the neighbors so much, a lowly 9mm to the chest/abdomen/head area will drop him.

People react to gunshots differently. Look it up and you will see stories of people dropping like a rock with a shot from a .22LR and peale who have a 12 gauge slug right through the heart where the police could actually see throught the person still taking well aimed shots and dropping 35 seconds later.

The only thing you can garuntee on your end is the amount of damage done, not how the person will react. Best bet is the most power that you can afford/handle accurately. sometimes concealment is a concern but can still be dealt with.

Meh, i still have probl;ems with the killing part. too much trouble. id rather have to go to court and testify against a live defendant than have to risk 25 to life. in the marines or at my local range, it's ok to go overboard and use AP 5.56mm and .50cal eounds but when in civil defence, i prefer to use what is needed and no more.

5.56 is and always will be a groundhog round 🙂😉 just because the military uses it won't change my mind.

Unless the person has family doing it on their behalf it's harder for them to sue you when they are dead.🙂

well the 5.56 we use in the marines is a AP round(green tip, model XM995). it is supposet to be able to penetrate 12mm armor plate at 100m straight on 90degree shot.it is also effective to 120mm plexiglass at 100m 90degree and causes minimal to no barrel wear. It is a excellent round for most purposes.

Besides, NATO regulations force all ammber countries(except france which has large stocks of 5.45 or something like it stockpiled) to use it.

Nato is stuppid 😀

I'd like to see the M16 equivalent with .300 Win Mag 🙂

I'm sure they can develop a round like you described in the larger caliber and because of the weight it would have greater penetration.

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: BDawg

Originally posted by: MrBond
If you're dead set on one of the two, I'd say 9mm only because it's cheaper and you won't be tempted not to practice because ammunition is expensive.

45ACP is the most correct choice for a CCW gun 😉

Booo! .357 Sig. 😀

Coonan .357 Magnum

Text

😀

This is what I'm talking about. If I got my CCW, it's the pistol I would carry.

 

[Fingers]

Originally posted by: shuan24

Originally posted by: Fingers
Why does every body keep going tot he cost of ammo issue. I thought I wasn't all that well off being a lousy commercial fisherman and going to college at the same time. Some of you guys must be dirt ass poor if that's an issue.

The cost for most handgun ammo is with a couple dollars a box. Not that much money.

If you're saying the difference between $5 a box and $16.99 a box is not that much money, then I beg to differ.

Would like to know what caliber and where you are getting that $5 box. I have never paid more that $12 for a box of .45ACP either.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Fingers

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Fingers

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Fingers

Originally posted by: mwmorph
I stilldont understand why anyon would recommend an auto pistol for someone so unlikely to use it. it's not like the whole mafia crew are coming over, most likely 1 person, and no matter what, unless that person is hopped oup on adrenline so much from runnng form cops/robbing the neighbors so much, a lowly 9mm to the chest/abdomen/head area will drop him.

People react to gunshots differently. Look it up and you will see stories of people dropping like a rock with a shot from a .22LR and peale who have a 12 gauge slug right through the heart where the police could actually see throught the person still taking well aimed shots and dropping 35 seconds later.

The only thing you can garuntee on your end is the amount of damage done, not how the person will react. Best bet is the most power that you can afford/handle accurately. sometimes concealment is a concern but can still be dealt with.

Meh, i still have probl;ems with the killing part. too much trouble. id rather have to go to court and testify against a live defendant than have to risk 25 to life. in the marines or at my local range, it's ok to go overboard and use AP 5.56mm and .50cal eounds but when in civil defence, i prefer to use what is needed and no more.

5.56 is and always will be a groundhog round 🙂😉 just because the military uses it won't change my mind.

Unless the person has family doing it on their behalf it's harder for them to sue you when they are dead.🙂

well the 5.56 we use in the marines is a AP round(green tip, model XM995). it is supposet to be able to penetrate 12mm armor plate at 100m straight on 90degree shot.it is also effective to 120mm plexiglass at 100m 90degree and causes minimal to no barrel wear. It is a excellent round for most purposes.

Besides, NATO regulations force all ammber countries(except france which has large stocks of 5.45 or something like it stockpiled) to use it.

Nato is stuppid 😀

I'd like to see the M16 equivalent with .300 Win Mag 🙂

I'm sure they can develop a round like you described in the larger caliber and because of the weight it would have greater penetration.

If the shenanigans with the NATO rifle rounds over the years have proved anything it is that one round is not suited for all applications.