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Gun goes off and kills frat brother sleeping.

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Originally posted by: biggestmuff
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Astaroth33
I agree that the gun owner should answer to the authorities as to why the gun itself was not secured.</end quote></div>

Why is that?

If a car is stolen and used in a crime (robbery or running over a person), is the car owner questioned why they left the car unlocked or why the vehicle wasn't stored in garage?

What about knifes? Hammers? 5 gallon buckets?
Click to expand...

Because with a simple pull of the trigger, no more than 3 pounds of force you can send a lethal round through walls and floors.
A child could trigger it almost as he picks it up.
Stealing a car and driving recklessly is a crime in itself and a crappy anology IMO.
If you leave it loaded and don't secure it, you are liable in my book.
 
Wow, that is crazy. 🙁

For those who know the area, it was at the Beacon Hill apartments across from Oakland University.

EDIT: Hansen's family requested that a reasonable bond be set for Yu, so he would have the opportunity to attend the funeral.
 
Originally posted by: TallBill
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: MustISO
Police said Yu was playing with a handgun about 2:30 a.m. when it discharged. This is why not everyone should have access to a gun.
</end quote></div>

:roll:

Guess we should take away all cars too!
Click to expand...

Turning a limited statement into an absolute then shooting it down is pretty poor debating man...

You think this guy should be allowed to own a firearm? To use your analogy - should someone who runs over another someone while driving recklessly be allowed to drive again?
 
Originally posted by: skyking
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: biggestmuff
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Astaroth33
I agree that the gun owner should answer to the authorities as to why the gun itself was not secured.</end quote></div>

Why is that?

If a car is stolen and used in a crime (robbery or running over a person), is the car owner questioned why they left the car unlocked or why the vehicle wasn't stored in garage?

What about knifes? Hammers? 5 gallon buckets?</end quote></div>

Because with a simple pull of the trigger, no more than 3 pounds of force you can send a lethal round through walls and floors.
A child could trigger it almost as he picks it up.
Stealing a car and driving recklessly is a crime in itself and a crappy anology IMO.
If you leave it loaded and don't secure it, you are liable in my book.
Click to expand...

I agree guns should be stored and secured, but to say one is liable is silly. If I leave a gun loaded and in my unlocked truck, and someone uses it to kill another person, how am I liable, and not them?

In the end, this case isn't about the gun, it's about the stupid mistake made by a person. He is responsible for his friend's death, and should pay the consequences. Especially if he chose to drink beforehand.
 
Originally posted by: Amused
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Frat kids who are stupid enough play with firearms while drunk deserve to be locked up for life. Fifteen years isn't enough for a case like this.</end quote></div>

There was no malice or intent here. Just a moment of drunken stupidity. I think a more fitting punishment would be to force restitution for life to the family of the victim.

All putting this guy into prison will do is turn him into a real criminal. It will also destroy his ability to make a living and make meaningful restitution to the family.
Click to expand...

no that would be logical we need to react in a purely emotional manner in these cases!
 
Originally posted by: RaiderJ
I agree guns should be stored and secured, but to say one is liable is silly. If I leave a gun loaded and in my unlocked truck, and someone uses it to kill another person, how am I liable, and not them?
Click to expand...

I think you would be liable "as well as them", but to a lesser extent, rather than "and not them"...

Say I'm working on a construction site and I have a heavy load dangling by a rope over a public place, I pop out to get some coffee, and some pscho comes along and cuts the rope. Is he liable? Of course, he cut the rope. Am I liable too? I think so - I was negligent with a dangerous setup.
 
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: RaiderJ
I agree guns should be stored and secured, but to say one is liable is silly. If I leave a gun loaded and in my unlocked truck, and someone uses it to kill another person, how am I liable, and not them?
Click to expand...

I think you would be liable "as well as them", but to a lesser extent, rather than "and not them"...

Say I'm working on a construction site and I have a heavy load dangling by a rope over a public place, I pop out to get some coffee, and some pscho comes along and cuts the rope. Is he liable? Of course, he cut the rope. Am I liable too? I think so - I was negligent with a dangerous setup.
Click to expand...

If you have to commit a crime to acquire the firearm then the owner shouldn't be liable. You're talking about negligence. The owner didn't go downstairs and throw a loaded gun at Yu. Yu committed theft by taking it.
 
Originally posted by: biggestmuff
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Astaroth33
I agree that the gun owner should answer to the authorities as to why the gun itself was not secured.</end quote></div>

Why is that?

If a car is stolen and used in a crime (robbery or running over a person), is the car owner questioned why they left the car unlocked or why the vehicle wasn't stored in garage?

What about knifes? Hammers? 5 gallon buckets?
Click to expand...

Today's People's Court featured a similar case.

A guy left his car unlocked with the keys in the ignition, and it was stolen and involved in a collision. He was forced to pay for the plaintiff's repair costs because of his negligence in failing to properly secure his car.

 
Originally posted by: RaiderJ
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: skyking
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: biggestmuff
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Astaroth33
I agree that the gun owner should answer to the authorities as to why the gun itself was not secured.</end quote></div>

Why is that?

If a car is stolen and used in a crime (robbery or running over a person), is the car owner questioned why they left the car unlocked or why the vehicle wasn't stored in garage?

What about knifes? Hammers? 5 gallon buckets?</end quote></div>

Because with a simple pull of the trigger, no more than 3 pounds of force you can send a lethal round through walls and floors.
A child could trigger it almost as he picks it up.
Stealing a car and driving recklessly is a crime in itself and a crappy anology IMO.
If you leave it loaded and don't secure it, you are liable in my book.
</end quote></div>

I agree guns should be stored and secured, but to say one is liable is silly. If I leave a gun loaded and in my unlocked truck, and someone uses it to kill another person, how am I liable, and not them?

In the end, this case isn't about the gun, it's about the stupid mistake made by a person. He is responsible for his friend's death, and should pay the consequences. Especially if he chose to drink beforehand.
Click to expand...

Another crappy anology. He gets in your truck and steals it, crime #1.
Finding a loaded gun at a house you are invited to, and picking it up out of curiousity is quite stupid. And avoidable. Secure the damn thing and be done with it!
I am not against guns or loaded guns. I am against folks who get careless about it, and expect everyone they have over to know that all guns are treated as loaded. Hell, if you are worried and need protection from a loaded gun, the last thing you want is for an intruder to easily grab it and use it on you.
Interview with St. Peter:
"He shot you with your own gun? how did that happen?"

😱"well, I was takin a massive dump, and did not hear the guy breaking in"

"you go to hell, son"
😛

 
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Amused
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Frat kids who are stupid enough play with firearms while drunk deserve to be locked up for life. Fifteen years isn't enough for a case like this.</end quote></div>

There was no malice or intent here. Just a moment of drunken stupidity. I think a more fitting punishment would be to force restitution for life to the family of the victim.

All putting this guy into prison will do is turn him into a real criminal. It will also destroy his ability to make a living and make meaningful restitution to the family.</end quote></div>

no that would be logical we need to react in a purely emotional manner in these cases!
Click to expand...

Ah ha! Now I see. 😛

BTW, according to iamwiz82's last post, Hanson's parents are pushing for low bail so Yu can attend the funeral, thus seem very forgiving and understand it was a one time stupid drunken mistake with no malice or intent. If they can do it, so can we.

Should Yu pay for what he did? Yep. But prison time is a waste for everyone. He's an educated kid with a lot of income potential and NOT a criminal. The vast majority of his punishment should be financial.
 
I tend to agree. Prison is chock full of examples of wasted lives for accidental crimes. I guess that is why I'm so vehement about securing your lethal weapons, I see this as a 80/20 split on the liability of this "crime".
If the guy can somehow make good come from this, he has a chance of doing it outside the system and zero chance from within.
 
Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Atheus
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: RaiderJ
I agree guns should be stored and secured, but to say one is liable is silly. If I leave a gun loaded and in my unlocked truck, and someone uses it to kill another person, how am I liable, and not them?</end quote></div>

I think you would be liable "as well as them", but to a lesser extent, rather than "and not them"...

Say I'm working on a construction site and I have a heavy load dangling by a rope over a public place, I pop out to get some coffee, and some pscho comes along and cuts the rope. Is he liable? Of course, he cut the rope. Am I liable too? I think so - I was negligent with a dangerous setup.</end quote></div>

If you have to commit a crime to acquire the firearm then the owner shouldn't be liable. You're talking about negligence. The owner didn't go downstairs and throw a loaded gun at Yu. Yu committed theft by taking it.
Click to expand...

The guy cutting the rope trespassed on a construction site - that's a crime - but it would still be negligence on the part of the workers for leaving the load hanging there.

I think leaving a weapon where anyone (even a child) can come along and pick it up is pretty irresponible.
 
Does this school permit students to bring firearms to campus? If not, the owner of the gun should be disciplined. If so, WTH are guns allowed on campus? I'm not even allowed to have candles in my room, let alone a gun.

That being said, it's a shame Yu will have to go to prison, but I bet he'll get the minimum sentence for involuntary manslaughter.
 
Originally posted by: Bibble
Does this school permit students to bring firearms to campus? If not, the owner of the gun should be disciplined. If so, WTH are guns allowed on campus? I'm not even allowed to have candles in my room, let alone a gun.
Click to expand...

Reading comprehension is a GOOD thing:

"...attending a party in an Auburn Hills apartment..."
 
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Bibble
Does this school permit students to bring firearms to campus? If not, the owner of the gun should be disciplined. If so, WTH are guns allowed on campus? I'm not even allowed to have candles in my room, let alone a gun.</end quote></div>

BTW, there is a reason most mass shootings are on school campuses. That's because guns are banned there.

Banning guns ANYWHERE is simply an invitation for criminals to find easy, unarmed targets. All these bans do is disarm law abiding citizens. They do not, for a minute, stop a criminal or madman from bringing one on the property.
 
Originally posted by: Amused
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Bibble
Does this school permit students to bring firearms to campus? If not, the owner of the gun should be disciplined. If so, WTH are guns allowed on campus? I'm not even allowed to have candles in my room, let alone a gun.</end quote></div>

BTW, there is a reason most mass shootings are on school campuses. That's because guns are banned there.

Banning guns ANYWHERE is simply an invitation for criminals to find easy, unarmed targets. All these bans do is disarm law abiding citizens. They do not, for a minute, stop a criminal or madman from bringing one on the property.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is why there are so many more shootings here in England, where handguns and automatic weapons are outlawed entirely... oh no wait there aren't...
 
Originally posted by: Schfifty Five
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: TallBill
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: MustISO
Police said Yu was playing with a handgun about 2:30 a.m. when it discharged. This is why not everyone should have access to a gun.
</end quote></div>

:roll:

Guess we should take away all cars too!</end quote></div>

he didn't say NO ONE should have access to a gun, only some.

Therefore, SOME people should not be allowed to drive either. Learn to read?
Click to expand...
As opposed to driving, which is a privilege, gun owning is a right. Learn to read [the bill of rights].
 
Originally posted by: tfinch2
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: TallBill
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: MustISO
Police said Yu was playing with a handgun about 2:30 a.m. when it discharged. This is why not everyone should have access to a gun.
</end quote></div>

:roll:

Guess we should take away all cars too!</end quote></div>

Don't be such a douchebag. Learn to read.
Click to expand...
Learn some respect bitch.
 
Originally posted by: skyking
I tend to agree. Prison is chock full of examples of wasted lives for accidental crimes. I guess that is why I'm so vehement about securing your lethal weapons, I see this as a 80/20 split on the liability of this "crime".
If the guy can somehow make good come from this, he has a chance of doing it outside the system and zero chance from within.
Click to expand...

It's too bad they can't give him the death penalty for manslaughter. I'd like a make an example out of this stupid drunk for everyone in the country to see.

Morons like this guy cause politicians to pass more restrictive gun laws as a knee jerk reaction, which doesn't really solve anything and just makes things tougher for all of responsible gun owners out there. If you want to fix the gun control "problem", go after the PEOPLE who are causing the problem!
 
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Bibble
Does this school permit students to bring firearms to campus? If not, the owner of the gun should be disciplined. If so, WTH are guns allowed on campus? I'm not even allowed to have candles in my room, let alone a gun.
Click to expand...

BTW, there is a reason most mass shootings are on school campuses. That's because guns are banned there.

Banning guns ANYWHERE is simply an invitation for criminals to find easy, unarmed targets. All these bans do is disarm law abiding citizens. They do not, for a minute, stop a criminal or madman from bringing one on the property.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is why there are so many more shootings here in England, where handguns and automatic weapons are outlawed entirely... oh no wait there aren't...
Click to expand...

Clearly. Which is why Switzerland, which has more guns per capita that the U.S. has a lower crime rate than either.
 
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