Gun control laws do not reduce crime - Official NAS research project results

[ajf3]

Heard this on the news over break...

The National Academy of Sciences issued a 328-page report based on 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications, a survey of 80 different gun-control laws and some of its own independent study. In short, the panel could find no link between restrictions on gun ownership and lower rates of crime, firearms violence or even accidents with guns.

The panel was established during the Clinton administration and all but one of its members were known to favor gun control.

When a group of lib researchers/statiticians can't get the data to bend the way they want there isn't much to question about the results.

link to article

 

[K1052]

This subject has been debated to death more than once here.

 

[ajf3]

This isn't a subjective discussion of the subject in general - it's an official study by the National Academy of Sciences - commissioned by Clinton & ongoing for a decade. It's most likely the largest empirical study of the topic ever.

 

[lozina]

gun control laws just prevent decent law abiding citizens from owning guns. does it take a rocket scientist to figure out that criminals don't exactly obey the rules?

 

[Darkhawk28]

I have absolutely no problem with people owning guns. Great, more power to them.

But I think the only problem I have is....

If you're hunting deer, why do you need a bazooka? :laugh:

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: ajf3
This isn't a subjective discussion of the subject in general - it's an official study by the National Academy of Sciences - commissioned by Clinton & ongoing for a decade. It's most likely the largest empirical study of the topic ever.

It only reinforces what was already known. Last year the CDC reviewed a bunch of gun studies to see if any of them could prove that gun laws prevent gun crime, there was not one among all those studies that could prove they do.

It is a loser in practice and nearly political suicide these days to back.

 

[Pliablemoose]

I just read the press release, they studied existing/completed studies & bitch about how the data can't be used to draw useful conclusions.

They wasted money on a study that essentially draws no conclusions & suggest spending more $ to study the issue further.

You hae to purchase the federally funded study to read it.

 

[Forsythe]

Poor people and loose gun control is harmfull. I doubt this report. One thing i do know, in denmark, we have strict gun control. We are the fifth richest country in the world. Last year, of a 5.6million population 43 of them were murdered.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Forsythe
Poor people and loose gun control is harmfull. I doubt this report. One thing i do know, in denmark, we have strict gun control. We are the fifth richest country in the world. Last year, of a 5.6million population 43 of them were murdered.

Guns do not cause gun crime. Other countries with high ownership rates (several of them in Europe) do not have the gun crime problems the US does.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Forsythe
Poor people and loose gun control is harmfull. I doubt this report. One thing i do know, in denmark, we have strict gun control. We are the fifth richest country in the world. Last year, of a 5.6million population 43 of them were murdered.

Guns do not cause gun crime. Other countries with high ownership rates (several of them in Europe) do not have the gun crime problems the US does.

Look at Switzerland

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Forsythe
Poor people and loose gun control is harmfull. I doubt this report. One thing i do know, in denmark, we have strict gun control. We are the fifth richest country in the world. Last year, of a 5.6million population 43 of them were murdered.

Didn't you legalize drugs?

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Forsythe
Poor people and loose gun control is harmfull. I doubt this report. One thing i do know, in denmark, we have strict gun control. We are the fifth richest country in the world. Last year, of a 5.6million population 43 of them were murdered.

Guns do not cause gun crime. Other countries with high ownership rates (several of them in Europe) do not have the gun crime problems the US does.

Look at Switzerland

I thought references to Europe's policies was against the R's rules... LOL I kid, I kid. :laugh:

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: Forsythe
Poor people and loose gun control is harmfull. I doubt this report. One thing i do know, in denmark, we have strict gun control. We are the fifth richest country in the world. Last year, of a 5.6million population 43 of them were murdered.

Didn't you legalize drugs?

No we didn't, and i doubt we are about to. You're thinking about Holland (netherlands) afaik. Even tough i'm on the left, i'm against it.

On another note, your country has a gun fanatiscism. Though i partially understand it, i doubt that guns have much influence on the amount of crime being comitted (as in stopping crimes). One thing is guns, another thing is assault rifles, what do you need them for? It might be to make your economy work (1/3 of all guns in the world are produced and sold in the USA).
It is also reflected in your movie culture, guns play a big part of it. In violent movies made here in denmark, you rarely see gunfights, in american movies, like Heat, it's all about guns. All in all it's a mentality americans have, a mentality you need to get rid of, in my opinion, if you want to get rid of the major gun problems you have in your country. The first step there is to tighten your gun laws. It's simply not ok that you need to have police patrolling with assault rifles. That's not sane. For exampel, my dad was once a cop in copenhagen, the biggest city in denmark, and therefore the place where most crimes and such happens. He was even in the worst district. He was a cop for 8 years and only once he had to draw his gun, he's never fired it.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Forsythe
Poor people and loose gun control is harmfull. I doubt this report. One thing i do know, in denmark, we have strict gun control. We are the fifth richest country in the world. Last year, of a 5.6million population 43 of them were murdered.

Guns do not cause gun crime. Other countries with high ownership rates (several of them in Europe) do not have the gun crime problems the US does.

I agree partially, but you have approximately 35million people in your country living below the poverty line. Those people and guns are not a good mix, i believe.
Besides, the relatively ease of getting guns might be used to acquire guns illegally, and therefore help criminals, which might not show in a investigation as this. This is urely speculation from my side.
And besides, all but one of the people who made this report was pro gun. So it might be biased. I'm not gonna check no this as it's not a subject that concerns me much.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: Forsythe
Poor people and loose gun control is harmfull. I doubt this report. One thing i do know, in denmark, we have strict gun control. We are the fifth richest country in the world. Last year, of a 5.6million population 43 of them were murdered.

Didn't you legalize drugs?

No we didn't, and i doubt we are about to. You're thinking about Holland (netherlands) afaik. Even tough i'm on the left, i'm against it.

On another note, your country has a gun fanatiscism. Though i partially understand it, i doubt that guns have much influence on the amount of crime being comitted (as in stopping crimes). One thing is guns, another thing is assault rifles, what do you need them for? It might be to make your economy work (1/3 of all guns in the world are produced and sold in the USA).
It is also reflected in your movie culture, guns play a big part of it. In violent movies made here in denmark, you rarely see gunfights, in american movies, like Heat, it's all about guns. All in all it's a mentality americans have, a mentality you need to get rid of, in my opinion, if you want to get rid of the major gun problems you have in your country. The first step there is to tighten your gun laws. It's simply not ok that you need to have police patrolling with assault rifles. That's not sane. For exampel, my dad was once a cop in copenhagen, the biggest city in denmark, and therefore the place where most crimes and such happens. He was even in the worst district. He was a cop for 8 years and only once he had to draw his gun, he's never fired it.

The gun laws are already plenty tight and making them stronger has proved ineffective. Also, the term "assault weapons" is an invention of the media and anti-gun supporters. The fact is that relatively few crimes are committed with "assault weapons" (not to be confused with automatic weapons) and I think there has been only one single crime committed with a legally registered machine gun in the last 30+ years.

Our national drug policy has a lot to do with our gun crime problem in the US.

 

[ajf3]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Forsythe

And besides, all but one of the people who made this report was pro gun. So it might be biased. I'm not gonna check no this as it's not a subject that concerns me much.

You read that incorrectly... all but one were in favor of gun control going into the study.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Forsythe
Poor people and loose gun control is harmfull. I doubt this report. One thing i do know, in denmark, we have strict gun control. We are the fifth richest country in the world. Last year, of a 5.6million population 43 of them were murdered.

Guns do not cause gun crime. Other countries with high ownership rates (several of them in Europe) do not have the gun crime problems the US does.

I agree partially, but you have approximately 35million people in your country living below the poverty line. Those people and guns are not a good mix, i believe.
Besides, the relatively ease of getting guns might be used to acquire guns illegally, and therefore help criminals, which might not show in a investigation as this. This is urely speculation from my side.
And besides, all but one of the people who made this report was pro gun. So it might be biased. I'm not gonna check no this as it's not a subject that concerns me much.

Relatively speaking, our poor people are far better off than a good chunk of the world's population.

If guns were illegal in the US they would simply be smuggled in via Mexico or our ports like the unstoppable drug trade that saps so much money and resources from the government.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: ajf3

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: Forsythe

And besides, all but one of the people who made this report was pro gun. So it might be biased. I'm not gonna check no this as it's not a subject that concerns me much.

You read that incorrectly... all but one were in favor of gun control going into the study.

Thank you for correcting me on that one. If it was done on a valid base it might be legit. To be honest it wouldn't suprise me if it was.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: K1052
Relatively speaking, our poor people are far better off than a good chunk of the world's population.

If guns were illegal in the US they would simply be smuggled in via Mexico or our ports like the unstoppable drug trade that saps so much money and resources from the government.

I agree, but they still live in ghetto's. Even they might be able to provide themselves with food, since it's called poverty, it must be scarce. And ghetto's, as i'm sure you agree with, is a bad thing for crime rates.

Originally posted by: K1052

The gun laws are already plenty tight and making them stronger has proved ineffective. Also, the term "assault weapons" is an invention of the media and anti-gun supporters. The fact is that relatively few crimes are committed with "assault weapons" (not to be confused with automatic weapons) and I think there has been only one single crime committed with a legally registered machine gun in the last 30+ years.

Our national drug policy has a lot to do with our gun crime problem in the US.

Please explain the drug policy, i'm not aware of it.
I'm not saying that crimes are made with assault rifles (i'm not knowledgable about guns as you might have spotted 😛, so just automatic rifles or whatever), i'm saying that if people have guns to defend themselves with, more guns will be needed to create crimes. That's very roughly formulated, but i hope you get the general idea. It's so normal to have guns (i think) that many people just get guns to do crime. This can be changed to a level where people do not use guns at the same level they do today (it will take time though), and therefore the police will not have to be so brute in their searches and their safeguards, and crime will drop as an effect of that.
It's basically the "i eat because i'm unhappy, and i'm unhappy because i eat" effect.
Now i might be wrong on this, and this is just a theory, but the fact is that you have a huge crime rate, and guns in the streets are not a rarity. I'm just trying to come with an explanation with your problem, since many other countries do indeed have loose gun control aswell.

And yes, i'm sure poverty/drug-use has something to do with it.

 

[Forsythe]

Bah, mistake, ignore.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: K1052
Relatively speaking, our poor people are far better off than a good chunk of the world's population.

If guns were illegal in the US they would simply be smuggled in via Mexico or our ports like the unstoppable drug trade that saps so much money and resources from the government.

I agree, but they still live in ghetto's. Even they might be able to provide themselves with food, since it's called poverty, it must be scarce. And ghetto's, as i'm sure you agree with, is a bad thing for crime rates.

Originally posted by: K1052

The gun laws are already plenty tight and making them stronger has proved ineffective. Also, the term "assault weapons" is an invention of the media and anti-gun supporters. The fact is that relatively few crimes are committed with "assault weapons" (not to be confused with automatic weapons) and I think there has been only one single crime committed with a legally registered machine gun in the last 30+ years.

Our national drug policy has a lot to do with our gun crime problem in the US.

Please explain the drug policy, i'm not aware of it.
I'm not saying that crimes are made with assault rifles (i'm not knowledgable about guns as you might have spotted 😛, so just automatic rifles or whatever), i'm saying that if people have guns to defend themselves with, more guns will be needed to create crimes. That's very roughly formulated, but i hope you get the general idea. It's so normal to have guns (i think) that many people just get guns to do crime. This can be changed to a level where people do not use guns at the same level they do today (it will take time though), and therefore the police will not have to be so brute in their searches and their safeguards, and crime will drop as an effect of that.
It's basically the "i eat because i'm unhappy, and i'm unhappy because i eat" effect.
Now i might be wrong on this, and this is just a theory, but the fact is that you have a huge crime rate, and guns in the streets are not a rarity. I'm just trying to come with an explanation with your problem, since many other countries do indeed have loose gun control aswell.

And yes, i'm sure poverty/drug-use has something to do with it.

Nearly everything except Tobacco and Alcohol is illegal. Long prison terms and large fines are routinely handed down for possession of large amounts, smuggling, distribution, manufacture, and possession.

The result has only driven drug prices up to a level that makes violating the laws extremely profitable if not dangerous. Billions of dollars are spent trying to keep drugs out of the country and jail people on drug related charges. Violence inevitably followed as was the case with Alcohol prohibition as rival groups struggle for control of the trade and prices are pushed out of the affordable range for some users resulting in them turning to crime to finance their habit.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: K1052
Relatively speaking, our poor people are far better off than a good chunk of the world's population.

If guns were illegal in the US they would simply be smuggled in via Mexico or our ports like the unstoppable drug trade that saps so much money and resources from the government.

I agree, but they still live in ghetto's. Even they might be able to provide themselves with food, since it's called poverty, it must be scarce. And ghetto's, as i'm sure you agree with, is a bad thing for crime rates.

Originally posted by: K1052

The gun laws are already plenty tight and making them stronger has proved ineffective. Also, the term "assault weapons" is an invention of the media and anti-gun supporters. The fact is that relatively few crimes are committed with "assault weapons" (not to be confused with automatic weapons) and I think there has been only one single crime committed with a legally registered machine gun in the last 30+ years.

Our national drug policy has a lot to do with our gun crime problem in the US.

Please explain the drug policy, i'm not aware of it.
I'm not saying that crimes are made with assault rifles (i'm not knowledgable about guns as you might have spotted 😛, so just automatic rifles or whatever), i'm saying that if people have guns to defend themselves with, more guns will be needed to create crimes. That's very roughly formulated, but i hope you get the general idea. It's so normal to have guns (i think) that many people just get guns to do crime. This can be changed to a level where people do not use guns at the same level they do today (it will take time though), and therefore the police will not have to be so brute in their searches and their safeguards, and crime will drop as an effect of that.
It's basically the "i eat because i'm unhappy, and i'm unhappy because i eat" effect.
Now i might be wrong on this, and this is just a theory, but the fact is that you have a huge crime rate, and guns in the streets are not a rarity. I'm just trying to come with an explanation with your problem, since many other countries do indeed have loose gun control aswell.

And yes, i'm sure poverty/drug-use has something to do with it.

Nearly everything except Tobacco and Alcohol is illegal. Long prison terms and large fines are routinely handed down for possession of large amounts, smuggling, distribution, manufacture, and possession.

The result has only driven drug prices up to a level that makes violating the laws extremely profitable if not dangerous. Billions of dollars are spent trying to keep drugs out of the country and jail people on drug related charges. Violence inevitably followed as was the case with Alcohol prohibition as rival groups struggle for control of the trade and prices are pushed out of the affordable range for some users resulting in them turning to crime to finance their habit.

Hmm, ofcourse. That is indeed a big problem! How is the general view of drugs in the american, is it a nono or is it tolerated. Are there organized gangs of drug dealers? I mean nationally organized?

 

[misle]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
I have absolutely no problem with people owning guns. Great, more power to them.

But I think the only problem I have is....

If you're hunting deer, why do you need a bazooka? :laugh:

Some of us like to have the deer pre-cooked. I don't see the problem. 😛

 

[ReiAyanami]

you are 22 times more likely to shoot a family member than an intruder in your own household

 

[Colt45]

Guns are not the problem.

Take Switzerland for example. guns are extremely easy to get. some regions you can carry pistols without a permit even. Basically every male has at least one gun via the militia deal they have.

gun crime? almost none, and the little there is, is quite often done by foreigners rather than swiss nationals.

The problem is stupid fvcks, more or less. The US seems to have a higher proportion of gun holding idiots (legal or otherwise).