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Gun control in the U.S. is working... we need to push for more gun control

rudder

rudder

Lifer
The better people can control their weapons and hit their targets... the more violent crime will go down.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/fbi-crime-stats-show-an-armed-public-is-a-safer-public/

One would really half to delve into the statistics to really see if this correlation is true... but it is interesting. You also have to consider the fact that police departments all over the nation have been facing severe budget problems... reducing officer overtime, cutting officers, etc. meaning a lessened police presence. Increase in permits... decrease in violent crime.
 
5 data points do not a trend make...

I think you can explain the gun demand with Obama winning the elections. People bought a ton of guns, thinking that it will be more difficult to do so in the future.

IIRC there are many, many studies that show that gun deaths can be statistically explained by the number of people that own guns (logic would suggests so).
 
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her209 said:
There's no crime in the ghetto because there, everyone has guns. Everyone knows this.
Click to expand...

Nice attempt at humor but in the ghetto area near me... everyone packs illegal weapons. They have no fear of discharging those weapons and killing someone because those guns are untraceable.

When the ghetto folk stray out into mainstream society... they now have to wonder if that easy target is packing heat and will second guess their decision.... is getting $20 for a crack fix worth getting shot in the face?
 
rudder said:
Nice attempt at humor but in the ghetto area near me... everyone packs illegal weapons. They have no fear of discharging those weapons and killing someone because those guns are untraceable.

When the ghetto folk stray out into mainstream society... they now have to wonder if that easy target is packing heat and will second guess their decision.... is getting $20 for a crack fix worth getting shot in the face?
Click to expand...

You're underestimating the power of "keeping it real"
 
halik said:
IIRC there are many, many studies that show that gun deaths can be statistically explained by the number of people that own guns (logic would suggests so).
Click to expand...

Your "logic" is flawed.


Myth: The availability of guns causes crime

Myth: Though the number of firearms owned by private citizens has been increasing steadily since 1970, the overall rate of homicides and suicides has not risen.132 As the chart shows, there is nocorrelation between the availability of firearms and the rates of homicide and suicide in America.

Fact: Internationally speaking “There’s no clear relationship between more guns and higher levels of violence.”133

Fact: “... a detailed study of the major surveys completed in the past 20 years or more provides no evidence of any relationship between the total number of legally held firearms in society and the rate of armed crime. Nor is there a relationship between the severity of controls imposed in various countries or the mass of bureaucracy involved with many control systems with the apparent ease of access to firearms by criminals and terrorists.”134

antigun.JPG


http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.1/gun-facts-5.1-screen.pdf
 
halik said:
5 data points do not a trend make...

I think you can explain the gun demand with Obama winning the elections. People bought a ton of guns, thinking that it will be more difficult to do so in the future.

IIRC there are many, many studies that show that gun deaths can be statistically explained by the number of people that own guns (logic would suggests so).
Click to expand...

Yes, that's common sense and that's why gun control advocates like to focus on that stat as if it actually means anything, it's irrelevant.
 
nick1985 said:
Your "logic" is flawed.


Myth: The availability of guns causes crime

Myth: Though the number of firearms owned by private citizens has been increasing steadily since 1970, the overall rate of homicides and suicides has not risen.132 As the chart shows, there is nocorrelation between the availability of firearms and the rates of homicide and suicide in America.

Fact: Internationally speaking “There’s no clear relationship between more guns and higher levels of violence.”133

Fact: “... a detailed study of the major surveys completed in the past 20 years or more provides no evidence of any relationship between the total number of legally held firearms in society and the rate of armed crime. Nor is there a relationship between the severity of controls imposed in various countries or the mass of bureaucracy involved with many control systems with the apparent ease of access to firearms by criminals and terrorists.”134

antigun.JPG


http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.1/gun-facts-5.1-screen.pdf
Click to expand...

Gun deaths will certainly correlate to gun ownership rates by the virtue of expected value of accidental discharge. (multiply those thru...)

What is "gun supply" defined as over there? Handguns per thousand is a misleading benchmark for gun ownership rates - gdp increase (ie increase of wealth) and popularity of gun collecting will throw it off.

My brother has a large collection of guns and that stat applied to his neighboorhood would imply much higher "gun ownership" rate for his neighborhood, even though he may be the only person that owns any.
 
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If people were to think about gun control logically then they would see the current situation we are in as fairly reasonable. There is a certain stigma related to concealed carry such that not everyone and their mother is going to be totting a gun around in modern day society.

Try to envision a society where everyone has a gun. Remember that humans are susceptible to bursts of emotion very uncharacteristic of our normal every day behavior. Hormones/stresses/dramatic events can greatly alter our behavior to enable to us to do things that we look back on in shock.

Escalation of violence would be dramatic; say someone hits your friend while speeding down the street. Instead of knocking the careless driver out in a fit of rage you might be inclined to draw your six shooter. Cases of people getting fired, you have true psychopaths coming back in a couple days for calculated killing. Imagine if everyone at the exact time of firing had a gun on them, crimes of passion would be much more dramatic.

As random shots are fired in a heavily populated society, paranoia and fear would lead to more hyper-tension and stress which would dramatically affect our ability to reason and logically use our guns. People would draw upon closer groups of people they trust and you would see more tribal origins of societal groupings.

In the end you would create Africa, if everyone was to carry a gun in modern day society. I'll pass thanks.
 
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CLite said:
If people were to think about gun control logically then they would see the current situation we are in as fairly reasonable. There is a certain stigma related to concealed carry such that not everyone and their mother is going to be totting a gun around in modern day society.

Try to envision a society where everyone has a gun. Remember that human's are susceptible to bursts of emotions very uncharacteristic of our normal every day behavior. Hormones/stresses/dramatic events can greatly alter our behavior to enable to us to do things that we look back on in shock.

Escalation of violence would be dramatic, where say someone hits your friend while speeding down the street. Instead of knocking the careless driver out in a fit of rage you might be inclined to draw your six shooter. Cases of people getting fired, you have true psychopaths coming back in a couple days for calculated killing. Imagine if everyone at the exact time of firing had a gun on them, crimes of passion would be much more dramatic.

As random shots are fired in a heavily populated society, paranoia and fear would lead to more hyper-tension and stress which would dramatically affect our ability to reason and logically use our guns. People would draw upon closer groups of people they trust and you would see more tribal origins of societal groupings.

In the end you would create Africa, if everyone was to carry a gun in modern day society. I'll pass thanks.
Click to expand...

Except this doesnt happen...Nice theory though. I'll just go ahead and assume you have no studies to back up your BS claims

Can you provide some facts or studies showing CCW holders as irresponsible?

Myth: People with concealed weapons permits will commit crimes

Fact: In Texas, citizens with concealed carry permits are 14 times less likely to commit a crime. They are also five times less likely to commit a violent crime.300

Fact: People with concealed carry permits are:301
• 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public
• 13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general public

Fact: Even gun control organizations agree it is a non-problem, as in Texas – “because there haven't been Wild West shootouts in the streets”.302

Fact: Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03&#37😉 were convicted of the criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm.

Fact: In Florida, a state that has allowed concealed carry since late 1987, you are twice as likely to be attacked by an alligator as by a person with a concealed carry permit.303
 
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rudder said:
Nice attempt at humor but in the ghetto area near me... everyone packs illegal weapons. They have no fear of discharging those weapons and killing someone because those guns are untraceable.

When the ghetto folk stray out into mainstream society... they now have to wonder if that easy target is packing heat and will second guess their decision.... is getting $20 for a crack fix worth getting shot in the face?
Click to expand...

Are you saying that an armed thug will gun down another armed thug without any worry, but the same thug will not gun down some "mainstream" citizen out of fear of the guy carrying a registered firearm?
 
MrEgo said:
Nick, is your position that gun control laws have no correlation to violent crime rates?
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Its my position that certain gun control laws dont do anything except enable criminals. Handgun bans, for example. They are also unconstitutional...

I am in favor of background checks and dissalowing felons and mentally unstable from making purchases.
 
It sounds like there are two different arguments going.

-Gun control (extensive) has little or no affect (good or bad) on violent crime
-Putting more guns in the hands of citizens will reduce violent crime

Personally, I've seen so many mixed results that it is difficult to make an assumption that gun control laws make a difference either way. Therefore, I don't believe that changing that variable is going to be the answer to the problem.
 
I have had a carry permit for over a year now (and am carrying) and have not been assaulted once. Working for me.:sneaky:
 
highland145 said:
I have had a carry permit for over a year now (and am carrying) and have not been assaulted once. Working for me.:sneaky:
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I've never had a permit for all of my life yet, and have never been assaulted once either...

Though I will be getting a permit for fun.
 
MJinZ said:
I've never had a permit for all of my life yet, and have never been assaulted once either...

Though I will be getting a permit for fun.
Click to expand...
More seriously. I'm in a cash based business and have had a couple of other companies get robbed. The payday advance people get hit every week, seems like. I hope to never have to find out how I would handle the situation but if I am unarmed, I have no choice.

And the company buys my pistols, ammo, and range time. Score for me.
 
CLite said:
If people were to think about gun control logically then they would see the current situation we are in as fairly reasonable. There is a certain stigma related to concealed carry such that not everyone and their mother is going to be totting a gun around in modern day society.

Try to envision a society where everyone has a gun. Remember that humans are susceptible to bursts of emotion very uncharacteristic of our normal every day behavior. Hormones/stresses/dramatic events can greatly alter our behavior to enable to us to do things that we look back on in shock.

Escalation of violence would be dramatic; say someone hits your friend while speeding down the street. Instead of knocking the careless driver out in a fit of rage you might be inclined to draw your six shooter. Cases of people getting fired, you have true psychopaths coming back in a couple days for calculated killing. Imagine if everyone at the exact time of firing had a gun on them, crimes of passion would be much more dramatic.

As random shots are fired in a heavily populated society, paranoia and fear would lead to more hyper-tension and stress which would dramatically affect our ability to reason and logically use our guns. People would draw upon closer groups of people they trust and you would see more tribal origins of societal groupings.

In the end you would create Africa, if everyone was to carry a gun in modern day society. I'll pass thanks.
Click to expand...

I posted this map before, I'll post it again.
Rtc.gif

(Alabama is a weird state where it is technically "may issue" but effectively "shall issue")

Wow, the US is Somalia now. I can't even go to the grocery store without seeing two guys in a parking lot putting holes in each others' ride. 🙄

And here's the thing, an armed society would be the exact reverse. Pretty sure if everyone was armed and these "outbursts" carried a severe risk of death people would be more polite. Oh, and people who road rage are idiots and if you assault someone off a fender bender you deserve what's coming to you.

As for "random shots" leading to hyper-tension and stress, WTF? Random shots? Who randomly puts their life on the line for no reason? And who randomly shoots a gun? This is the problem with you gun control advocates. You're so scared of guns yourselves that you apply that to everyone and don't realize that other people will actually defend themselves with their guns; as opposed to being the hapless victims that the gun-grabbers would inevitably be.
 
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MrEgo said:
Are you saying that an armed thug will gun down another armed thug without any worry, but the same thug will not gun down some "mainstream" citizen out of fear of the guy carrying a registered firearm?
Click to expand...

As gun ownership and CCW permits increase sure I would hope. Thugs go for the easy mark. In college I had a friend whose coworker got shot in the head and killed during a robbery so he could not be a witness. Most robberies do not end with someone getting shot though. One would think a thug would shit their pants when they break into a home and see the homeowner pointing a gun at their head.

Anyway this was in reference to someone else saying that there is never any gunfire in the ghetto because everyone is armed or something to that effect.
 
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