Gun+ammo sales WAY up.

[JSt0rm]

The only reason you have the ability to vote and get an education is because those rights were fought for and paid for in blood by an armed citizenry with guns. Hopefully, that will never be necessary again, and our government, military and law enforcement will continue to support our constitution and democratic republic. But you can understand if we think disarming the law abiding citizenry might be a bad decision should the worst ever come to pass. And, since it won't even solve the problem of illegal gun violence, is a terrible idea.

To bring this conversation somewhat back on topic, I find it funny that while living in peaceful times so many are willing to give up their gun rights. I believe this is out of a naive desire to ignore that the ability to use force is exactly what secures our freedoms. It's much more comforting to think that all disputes can be settled with debate, passing laws and elections. But when we have a crisis of any kind, suddenly guns are in demand. And not just from current gun owners, but by those who in the past would never have thought of owning one.

I visited my local outdoors retailer three days ago and all the sales folks at the gun counter were busy explaining the basic function of a firearm to new owners looking to buy their first gun. And sales were brisk.

You would get rolled over in 10 seconds if you think you are just going to bring violence against power. You wont. You vote. Thats how you keep it. Not some weird fantasy.

 

[Paladin3]

And I still support the 2nd amendment, but there HAVE to be limitations going forward, assault-style weapons need to be totally banned and background check loopholes closed. Remember that when the constitution was penned state of he art firearms were muzzle-loading single shot weapons, a well trained person could expect to fire 3 rounds per minute. Even if someone went berserk he/she could be bum rushed during the arduous process of reloading.

Murder is already banned. What makes you think you can pass a gun ban and it will do a damn thing to stop criminal/sick/evil folks who choose to kill? Especially with no way to forcibly take away their guns? Are YOU going to go door to door and seize them all? Are YOU going to find where criminals hid their stash of weapons and confiscate them? Are YOU going to somehow stop them from making or smuggling in more? How many billions are YOU willing to pay to all the assault rifles back?

"Just ban assault rifles" is far easier to say than to accomplish. The only people who will get disarmed are the law-abiding who willingly comply, and those folks aren't the ones doing the killing. The vast, vast, vast majority of assault rifles in civilian hands are used legally for perfectly legit and legal activities.

And there is no "background check loopholes." Every shop or individual who sells guns for profit has to conduct a background check regardless of where the transaction occurs. Private sellers occasionally selling to residents of their own state, and, only if they have no reason to believe the person is prohibited from having a gun, can make a personal sale without having to involve an FFL dealer and pay the fees for the background check.

This was the compromise agreed to by both sides when the background check system was instituted so it wouldn't be cost prohibitive for a person to sell single gun or two that they decided they no longer needed. It in no way allows anyone, business or private seller, to regularly sell guns without going through the background check.

The demand to close the "gun show loophole" is a perfect example of how no mater how much gun control gun owners compromise and agree to, gun-grabbers will just demand more and more until they achieve their goal of zero civilian gun ownership.

 

[JSt0rm]

How many billions are YOU willing to pay to all the assault rifles back?

thats the plan. buy back.

 

[JSt0rm]

if you want to know how a horrible person thinks find a pro gun person who will argue that it will cost billions to save lives and we shouldnt do it.

 

[Paladin3]

You would get rolled over in 10 seconds if you think you are just going to bring violence against power. You wont. You vote. Thats how you keep it. Not some weird fantasy.

You are being willfully ignorant, because that's how we won our independence as a country. Might does not make right. Might for right is a far better ideal. Consolidating all the might in one entity and hoping they continue to use it justly is a fool's plan.

That doesn't mean I have dreams of fighting overthrowing the government. No, I have faith in our democratic society. Maybe a little less since Trump took office. Doesn't mean I'm willing to disarm the lawful and strip them of Constitutional rights for the illusion of safety.

If Trump did suspend the 2020 election and name himself essentially king, what would you do? Write a strongly worded letter to the editor about the abuse of power? And when the Trumptard Gestapo jailed you for terroristic threats what would you do then? Vote to let yourself out of prison?

No, I don't think such is likely, but if it did happen all you'd be able to do is hope someone else was willing to fight for you and your freedoms. Because you sure wouldn't be able to.

 

[JSt0rm]

You are being willfully ignorant, because that's how we won our independence as a country. Might does not make right. Might for right is a far better ideal. Consolidating all the might in one entity and hoping they continue to use it justly is a fool's plan.

That doesn't mean I have dreams of fighting overthrowing the government. No, I have faith in our democratic society. Maybe a little less since Trump took office. Doesn't mean I'm willing to disarm the lawful and strip them of Constitutional rights for the illusion of safety.

If Trump did suspend the 2020 election and name himself essentially king, what would you do? Write a strongly worded letter to the editor about the abuse of power? And when the Trumptard Gestapo jailed you for terroristic threats what would you do then? Vote to let yourself out of prison?

No, I don't think such is likely, but if it did happen all you'd be able to do is hope someone else was willing to fight for you and your freedoms. Because you sure wouldn't be able to.

what year was that again?

The world has changed since then. Sorry you cant play the postman irl.

 

[JSt0rm]

that your brain even thinks that trump could suspend the election and make himself king is hilarious. You live in a delusional world.

 

[Paladin3]

if you want to know how a horrible person thinks find a pro gun person who will argue that it will cost billions to save lives and we shouldnt do it.

I've covered a few gun buy backs. Historically, the only guns turned in are old and broken hunks of metal that are worth less than the price being paid. Occasionally a gun in good condition is turned in by someone who had a family member die and they just want it out of the house, but that is very, very rare. Buy backs have statistically done nothing to end gun violence.

Now a forced assault weapons buy back would lead to some folks turning in their guys. I'm guessing you'd have to pay anywhere from about $600 - $2k+ per gun to be compensating folks at full retail value. And most owners would simply refuse what they consider an unconstitutional seizure of personal property. The joke "sorry, officer, I lost all my guns in a terrible boating accident and they fell in the lake years ago" is already quite popular.

And that's the otherwise law abiding folks. Criminals and murderers are just going to giggle because you are disarming their victims even further.

 

[Bird222]

what year was that again?

The world has changed since then. Sorry you cant play the postman irl.

Dude if you think human nature has changed that much you are truly delusional. Let the power go out for a week nationwide and then come tell me how much the world has changed.

 

[Paladin3]

what year was that again?

The world has changed since then. Sorry you cant play the postman irl.

All you've got is personally attacks and what you think are witty comebacks. You aren't even worth talking to.

 

[JSt0rm]

Dude if you think human nature has changed that much you are truly delusional. Let the power go out for a week nationwide and then come tell me how much the world has changed.

its not about human nature. Its about military parity. and again the power isnt going out for a week. Why would you think about this? You arent going to live out your madmax fantasy.

 

[JSt0rm]

All you've got is personally attacks and what you think are witty comebacks. You aren't even worth talking to.

I never personally attacked you.

 

[JSt0rm]

I've covered a few gun buy backs. Historically, the only guns turned in are old and broken hunks of metal that are worth less than the price being paid. Occasionally a gun in good condition is turned in by someone who had a family member die and they just want it out of the house, but that is very, very rare. Buy backs have statistically done nothing to end gun violence.

Now a forced assault weapons buy back would lead to some folks turning in their guys. I'm guessing you'd have to pay anywhere from about $600 - $2k+ per gun to be compensating folks at full retail value. And most owners would simply refuse what they consider an unconstitutional seizure of personal property. The joke "sorry, officer, I lost all my guns in a terrible boating accident and they fell in the lake years ago" is already quite popular.

And that's the otherwise law abiding folks. Criminals and murderers are just going to giggle because you are disarming their victims even further.

I would expect offering 3 times the retail value.

 

[Paladin3]

Dude if you think human nature has changed that much you are truly delusional. Let the power go out for a week nationwide and then come tell me how much the world has changed.

We have a greater divide between the haves and have-nots than ever. Income disparity is back to depression era levels. Our current president believes he's Grand Poobah of the country and is inventing new powers for himself. Cops can't seem to stop shooting minorities. Prisons are being run for profit by corporations that have minimum occupancy contracts with government. Health care is largely unavailable to our working poor. Child immigrants are being held in cages. Abortion and gun rights are being defacto stripped by states passing unconstitutional restrictions. More and more of the taxpayer's money is siphoned off to corporations every day. Honest politicians are hard to find because the nature of human greed and money dangled in front of them by special interests is too hard to resist. Our elections are under attack from powers both within and without our country. And I could go on and on.

Yet he believes it's in our best interest to disarm and trust the government to do what's right for us. The only reason our precious voting rights haven't been suspended already is because it's simpler and cheaper to manipulate the vote. And they need us workers to keep producing and making them wealthy.

 

[Paladin3]

I never personally attacked you.

paladin doesnt care if people die as long as he gets to keep his fetish going.

You don't typically debate 90% of the ideas you disagree with. It's easier for you to just to attack the poster, or find a single line you can easily disagree with rather than actually debate.

 

[Paladin3]

I would expect offering 3 times the retail value.

That's wonderful, but if I don't want to sell you my private property? I know there is a lot of love for the idea that law enforcement will come shoot non-compliant gun owners like they did Duncan Lemp if we don't turn them in. Do you really think that is going to work without an armed uprising? And do you really think it's accomplishing the goal of disarming murderers and criminals?

 

[imported_tajmahal]

I dunno, i mean alcohol prohibition worked so well and then marijuana prohibition was so successful. No one uses illegal drug now they made them against the law. We totally stopped all illegal immigration in this country. How can anyone possibly say that gun prohibition won't work just as well?

 

[BUTCH1]

Murder is already banned. What makes you think you can pass a gun ban and it will do a damn thing to stop criminal/sick/evil folks who choose to kill? Especially with no way to forcibly take away their guns? Are YOU going to go door to door and seize them all? Are YOU going to find where criminals hid their stash of weapons and confiscate them? Are YOU going to somehow stop them from making or smuggling in more? How many billions are YOU willing to pay to all the assault rifles back?

"Just ban assault rifles" is far easier to say than to accomplish. The only people who will get disarmed are the law-abiding who willingly comply, and those folks aren't the ones doing the killing. The vast, vast, vast majority of assault rifles in civilian hands are used legally for perfectly legit and legal activities.

And there is no "background check loopholes." Every shop or individual who sells guns for profit has to conduct a background check regardless of where the transaction occurs. Private sellers occasionally selling to residents of their own state, and, only if they have no reason to believe the person is prohibited from having a gun, can make a personal sale without having to involve an FFL dealer and pay the fees for the background check.

This was the compromise agreed to by both sides when the background check system was instituted so it wouldn't be cost prohibitive for a person to sell single gun or two that they decided they no longer needed. It in no way allows anyone, business or private seller, to regularly sell guns without going through the background check.

The demand to close the "gun show loophole" is a perfect example of how no mater how much gun control gun owners compromise and agree to, gun-grabbers will just demand more and more until they achieve their goal of zero civilian gun ownership.

Sorry, but the feelings about the vast majority on this issue are clear, assault-style weapons need to be taken off the market. Do I believe it will end mass shootings?, uh, no, but you have to start somewhere. The whole "gun-grabbers" is a paranoid reaction to any kind of legislation that prohibits anything, by your standard a .50 cal machine gun should be perfectly legal after all, it's not the gun but the person behind it, right?. See the flaw in that logic?, the shootings in Dayton Ohio happened with armed officers close by, in 32 seconds the threat was neutralized but still 9 were killed and 17 injured, again, most people are realistic and don't expect or even want guns in general being banned or the constitution changed. Hell, I've even admitted if this thing turns really ugly I might be buying one.

 

[BUTCH1]

I dunno, i mean alcohol prohibition worked so well and then marijuana prohibition was so successful. No one uses illegal drug now they made them against the law. We totally stopped all illegal immigration in this country. How can anyone possibly say that gun prohibition won't work just as well?

If I get stoned as a bejesus I'll probably misplace my keys, possibly more than once, when I finally find them I'll have some cookies and milk and go to bed. All 100% illegal (at this point) but you get the idea.

 

[EduCat]

We have a greater divide between the haves and have-nots than ever. Income disparity is back to depression era levels. Our current president believes he's Grand Poobah of the country and is inventing new powers for himself. Cops can't seem to stop shooting minorities. Prisons are being run for profit by corporations that have minimum occupancy contracts with government. Health care is largely unavailable to our working poor. Child immigrants are being held in cages. Abortion and gun rights are being defacto stripped by states passing unconstitutional restrictions. More and more of the taxpayer's money is siphoned off to corporations every day. Honest politicians are hard to find because the nature of human greed and money dangled in front of them by special interests is too hard to resist. Our elections are under attack from powers both within and without our country. And I could go on and on.

Yet he believes it's in our best interest to disarm and trust the government to do what's right for us. The only reason our precious voting rights haven't been suspended already is because it's simpler and cheaper to manipulate the vote. And they need us workers to keep producing and making them wealthy.

This is really what it comes down to, which is why he listed it first and then listed a bunch of other random things. These preppers salivate at the thought of shit hitting the fan and being able to g u n down the poors coming to take their elk meat theyve been saving for the last 10 years. These nutters are generally 'law abiding citizens' who proudly display a flag in their front yard which represents a govt they don't even seem to trust!

It's all fantasy and I get it, but good lawd these people are so confused lol. I sense some of them want validation for all their 'prepping'. I also get the guns are generally cool devices. Makes you feel powerful, easy to enjoy that like any other drug/addiction.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Interesting.

Gun sales are up. Even as that fact may hold true in California, the Pot Shops here are reporting record sales. There was a major news item about it published in the LA Times during the last week or so.

It's just people clinging to their guns and drugs.

 

[Paladin3]

DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights During Coronavirus Emergency

The Department of Justice has secretly asked Congress for the ability to detain arrested people “indefinitely” in addition to other powers that one expert called “terrifying”
---------------------------------------------
Nah, it'll never happen here. Voting will always be enough to protect our Constitutional rights. I have faith Congress will say no, but what do we do if our system of checks and balances fails us and they don't. Trump has already said he's a "war-time president."

 

[JSt0rm]

DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights During Coronavirus Emergency
The Department of Justice has secretly asked Congress for the ability to detain arrested people “indefinitely” in addition to other powers that one expert called “terrifying”
---------------------------------------------
Nah, it'll never happen here. Voting will always be enough to protect our Constitutional rights. I have faith Congress will say no, but what do we do if our system of checks and balances fails us and they don't. Trump has already said he's a "war-time president."

so you think its not going to happen but then you go on to argue what if?


what if aliens came and killed everyone with a gun and then had everyone else live a good life? What if that happened?

 

[Paladin3]

so you think its not going to happen but then you go on to argue what if?


what if aliens came and killed everyone with a gun and then had everyone else live a good life? What if that happened?

Again, I don't personally own guns because I feel the need to overthrow the government is imminent. Nor do I own guns because I feel it likely I will need to use them to defend myself. I own them for sport, target, hunting and collecting purposes. Those other benefits are tertiary.

But only a fool refuses to assume any personal responsibility for their own safety and instead depends on others to provide it. Just like I have a fire extinguisher in my home just in case there is ever a fire. Just like I get certified in CPR/First Aid every year at work even though I've never had to use it.

I'm sorry lawful gun owners make you feel scared, but you need to fuck off. Neither you nor anyone else has the right to treat people like criminals and strip their rights away unless they've been found guilty in a court of law, or otherwise had their rights legally removed via due process.

You sound like Trump demanding the right to end constitutional rights for the "greater good." Fuck Trump and fuck you.

Or maybe you agree with the request Trump's DOJ is asking for? I mean, it would only increase the safety of the country, right?

 

[JSt0rm]

Again, I don't personally own guns because I feel the need to overthrow the government is imminent. Nor do I own guns because I feel it likely I will need to use them to defend myself. I own them for sport, target, hunting and collecting purposes. Those other benefits are tertiary.

But only a fool refuses to assume any personal responsibility for their own safety and instead depends on others to provide it. Just like I have a fire extinguisher in my home just in case there is ever a fire. Just like I get certified in CPR/First Aid every year at work even though I've never had to use it.

I'm sorry lawful gun owners make you feel scared, but you need to fuck off. Neither you nor anyone else has the right to treat people like criminals and strip their rights away unless they've been found guilty in a court of law, or otherwise had their rights legally removed via due process.

You sound like Trump demanding the right to end constitutional rights for the "greater good." Fuck Trump and fuck you.

Or maybe you agree with the request Trump's DOJ is asking for? I mean, it would only increase the safety of the country, right?

you need to breath deeply. Nobody is taking your hunting rifle. We are going to take your assault rifle though.