Guitar string buzzing

[40sTheme]

I just got a PRS Custom 22 that had a Wilkinson VRS100 2 point bridge installed on it. It plays great, but the strings buzz like crazy. The high E on the 12th fret pretty much just buzzes; it barely makes a noise. None of the frets are loose or anything, and they are a consistent height. The action is kind of low, but I don't know if that's the problem. Here are my questions:
A. Should the truss rod bow the middle of the neck away or towards the strings? Or should it be flat? Google gave me some bad answers as far as this goes...
B. If the relief isn't the problem, is it the action? If it is, how would one go about adjusting a Wilkinson VRS100? Google didn't help on this part either.
Like, I said, it plays amazingly, but string buzzing sucks.

 

[Platypus]

How is the bend at the nut?

Are the strings going through parallel to the neck or is there a bend?
Is it intonated properly?

I'd get rid of that bridge personally.

 

[40sTheme]

The nut is fine, and the intonation looks right. The octaves at the 12th frets sound right, at least. It's just buzzy.
The action gets lower as it goes down the neck toward the body. That's correct, right?
Are you really sure I should get rid of this bridge? Most people say Wilkinson bridges are amazing. The bridge is nice, as far as I can tell.

 

[Analog]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
I just got a PRS Custom 22 that had a Wilkinson VRS100 2 point bridge installed on it. It plays great, but the strings buzz like crazy. The high E on the 12th fret pretty much just buzzes; it barely makes a noise. None of the frets are loose or anything, and they are a consistent height. The action is kind of low, but I don't know if that's the problem. Here are my questions:
A. Should the truss rod bow the middle of the neck away or towards the strings? Or should it be flat? Google gave me some bad answers as far as this goes...
B. If the relief isn't the problem, is it the action? If it is, how would one go about adjusting a Wilkinson VRS100? Google didn't help on this part either.
Like, I said, it plays amazingly, but string buzzing sucks.

http://www.gibson.com/magazine...r/1997/10/tipfile.html

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/document?doc_id=88267

http://www.taylorguitars.com/g...uss_rod_adjustment.pdf


HTH!

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
The nut is fine, and the intonation looks right. The octaves at the 12th frets sound right, at least. It's just buzzy.
The action gets lower as it goes down the neck toward the body. That's correct, right?
Are you really sure I should get rid of this bridge? Most people say Wilkinson bridges are amazing. The bridge is nice, as far as I can tell.

I've just read some horror stories with changing the stock PRS bridges with intonation issues. If yours is fine and you like the bridge then keep it. Sounds like you just need to adjust your truss rod

http://www.prsguitars.com/csc/trussrod.html

When you say the action gets lower, is it drastic or subtle? Pictures would be good.

 

[imported_Imp]

Wow, I gotta play my guitar more. I completely forgot they buzz (not cause I'm good). Assuming you're an experienced player, it probably isn't from poor fingering; though it may be that the strings are too "high" above the fingerboard due to the bridges or improper calibration.

Before you take anything out or mess with the neck-screw, take it to your local guitar store/luthier. Will probably cost you a bit, but it'll cost less than if you snap something.

 

[Platypus]

http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/...necks/string_nut_5.jpg

Do your strings look similar as far as when they cross the nut?

Also, does the bridge have 6 individual saddles? You may need to take that allen wrench and adjust the saddles accordingly.

 

[Fritzo]

Sounds like it's in need of a setup. Truss rod adjustments are complicated. That and fret replacement are the only things I won't do myself on a guitar. It's well worth the $25-$40 to have it set up.

The bowing of a neck really has nothing to do with it. The intonation is what's important- the rod has to be adjusted so the 12th fret notes are exactly 1 octave higher than the open strings. If your strings are too low, that would definately cause buzz, but would not require a rod adjustment. You would want to raise the strings up and the bridge---this is common if the guitar is set for light gauge strings and you want to go up to a heavier gauge.

 

[Platypus]

btw:

"They should be adjusted so that the height of the string at the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the string is 2/32"."

Make sure your strings have that measurement at the 12th fret with the saddles in your bridge

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
Sounds like it's in need of a setup. Truss rod adjustments are complicated. That and fret replacement are the only things I won't do myself on a guitar. It's well worth the $25-$40 to have it set up.

The bowing of a neck really has nothing to do with it. The intonation is what's important- the rod has to be adjusted so the 12th fret notes are exactly 1 octave higher than the open strings. If your strings are too low, that would definately cause buzz, but would not require a rod adjustment. You would want to raise the strings up and the bridge---this is common if the guitar is set for light gauge strings and you want to go up to a heavier gauge.

If the neck is bowed at a weird angle it can cause buzzing depending on where the strings are touching because of said bow though. I've adjusted mine to fix this exact issue before but it's hard to say without seeing the actual guitar.

 

[40sTheme]

I can get pictures when I get home in ~ 1 hour. I'm probably going to loosen the truss a tiny bit, and if that doesn't work, I'll set the truss straight and raise the saddle. The nut and intonation are fine; fretting at the 12th matches the harmonic at the 12th. I will get pictures as soon as possible.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Platypus

Originally posted by: Fritzo
Sounds like it's in need of a setup. Truss rod adjustments are complicated. That and fret replacement are the only things I won't do myself on a guitar. It's well worth the $25-$40 to have it set up.

The bowing of a neck really has nothing to do with it. The intonation is what's important- the rod has to be adjusted so the 12th fret notes are exactly 1 octave higher than the open strings. If your strings are too low, that would definately cause buzz, but would not require a rod adjustment. You would want to raise the strings up and the bridge---this is common if the guitar is set for light gauge strings and you want to go up to a heavier gauge.

If the neck is bowed at a weird angle it can cause buzzing depending on where the strings are touching because of said bow though. I've adjusted mine to fix this exact issue before but it's hard to say without seeing the actual guitar.

I guess I'm saying that there's no "standard bow" to a neck. If the intonation is correct, the neck is going to be in the shape it needs to be in...there's no standard "bows in" or "bows out".

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
I can get pictures when I get home in ~ 1 hour. I'm probably going to loosen the truss a tiny bit, and if that doesn't work, I'll set the truss straight and raise the saddle. The nut and intonation are fine; fretting at the 12th matches the harmonic at the 12th. I will get pictures as soon as possible.

I would not make this adjustment unless you know exactly what you're doing.. you can really botch things up. Especially on a custom PRS.

I would pay to have a professional setup by a reputable shop, not somewhere like guitar center, et al. Sounds like this was not done when the bridge was installed and you might have a host of other issues at play here. It's worth the 40 bucks not to mess up your guitar; especially one that nice.

I've got a CU22 as well, fantastic guitar

 

[mrrman]

the truss rod is the last thing to touch, adjust the action first then see where that takes you

 

[Saint Nick]

i'd definitely take it into a shop before you try doing anything yourself.

 

[40sTheme]

I'll probably get my guitar teacher to help me with it. He works at the local Musician's Supply and has been playing and working on guitars for about 25 years, so he'll know what to do. I was just asking here because I won't see him again for a couple of weeks and I wanted to get this thing fixed up right. It's an amazing guitar. Here are the pics if it helps; sorry that I suck at picture taking:
Guitar Pics

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
I'll probably get my guitar teacher to help me with it. He works at the local Musician's Supply and has been playing and working on guitars for about 25 years, so he'll know what to do. I was just asking here because I won't see him again for a couple of weeks and I wanted to get this thing fixed up right. It's an amazing guitar. Here are the pics if it helps; sorry that I suck at picture taking:
Guitar Pics

That pic 'First E Bad' is exactly what I'm talking about as far as the nut. It could be the photo as the other ones don't look as severe but do you see how the strings are descending into the nut at an angle? That will not only cause buzz but premature string breakage too.

PRS really needs to get their shit together when it comes to nuts, I've owned 2 different PRS guitars that all needed nut shims to get proper height. For such an expensive guitar it's sad that such a cheap fix causes so many issues.

But.. the photos are pretty awful so it's hard to say for sure what's going on.

Also, your bridge is like I thought earlier with 6 saddles with individual screws so keep in mind you can adjust those too.

 

[40sTheme]

Do you mean the nut is angled? Or the strings? I'm having trouble visualizing what you mean by that.

 

[Platypus]

This is how it should look:

http://platypus.memoryfire.com/nut.jpg

Does yours look like this?
(strings through nut are horizontal and level)

 

[40sTheme]

Oooh... I fully understand now. Okay, mine are horizontal, but the strings are not all on the same level. Yeah, I'm definitely going to need some help from my teacher.

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
Oooh... I fully understand now. Okay, mine are horizontal, but the strings are not all on the same level. Yeah, I'm definitely going to need some help from my teacher.

They are not supposed to be totally on the same level, for example the 6th string (E) is supposed to be a tad bit lower than the A string, etc. If yours are horizontal the next place I would look is adjusting those saddles with an allen wrench.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Platypus

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
Oooh... I fully understand now. Okay, mine are horizontal, but the strings are not all on the same level. Yeah, I'm definitely going to need some help from my teacher.

They are not supposed to be totally on the same level, for example the 6th string (E) is supposed to be a tad bit lower than the A string, etc. If yours are horizontal the next place I would look is adjusting those saddles with an allen wrench.

This "notch depth" on the nut is where problems can occur with an otherwise good playing guitar.
99% of these problems are caused by an incorrectly cut nut slot, or a worn slot on an older guitar. Thisis why whipping the string in or out of it's slot can cause wear which will degrade the performance of the guitar.
Changing gauge of strings may change this sort of buzz. Changing the nut sol.ves it once and for all
When adjusting the individual string heights, a slight change in intonation may occur as you are making an adjustment within an arc, not on a perfectly horizontal plane.
A strobe tuner makes re-setting intonation a snap, as you can match the beats as you temper the tuning. This doesn't mean a strobe is all you need.
Because the frets don't get smaller and remain perpendicular to the neck, instead of splaying slightly, a strict stroboscopic tuning will not sound right.
Some adjustment by ear is necessary to have a sweet sounding guitar, as opposed 'not quite right'.

But I digress...
Buzzes can also come froma dry neck. Make sure your guitar is kept at a proper humidity and that a light oiling is done as appropriate for your fingerboard.
that exotic wood fingerboard is glued onto the neck and a bad glue joint will buzz as well...

More will come tomind as I ponder your situation....

< Guitar tech to the stars..... now retired....:thumbsup:

 

[thomsbrain]

If the string plays fine on the lower frets (open,1,2,etc), but buzzes up high, that would be indicative of a neck that is bowed away from you, and action that is set too low to compensate for that. the result is more room for the string to freely vibrate when you play low frets, but less room on higher frets.

So the first things to try would be to increase the height of the action until that 12th fret stop buzzing, and then straighten out the neck so that you don't end up with action that is higher than necessary.

Since you had to ask about this, I'm going to suggest you just take this guitar to a professional technician and explain the issue you are having. The way these different adjustments interact does make sense once you understand it all, but if you don't understand it, it's easy to make things worse.


Fritzo: Sorry, adjusting your truss rod to adjust intonation is like putting air in your tires to drive faster, instead of stepping on the gas pedal harder. Though it will have some effect, it's not really the right thing to do. You'll have a much more accurate effect by adjusting each individual string's total length, using the bridge. The truss rod is primarily there to make adjustments in action and compensate for slight differences in the strength of the wood used to make each neck. Changing the truss rod for action sometimes means you need to re-adjust the intonation afterwards, but you do that by making changes on the bridge, not the truss rod.