Guitar players (technical)

[Platypus]

I've been a bass player for years, though I started with guitar.

Here's my dilema... I keep having this feeling of regret that I gave up guitar and I really want to pick up another one to get back into it. I have it narrowed down to a specific sound I am looking for and the 2 guitars that match that profile dead on are:

Gibson Les Paul Standard
PRS Custom 24 (artist package)

As you can see, both are two humbucker guitars with a similar aspect of sustain and screaming tone.
The advtange to the PRS, which is what I want the most, is that it comes pre coil-tapped from the factory. This is something that I think is pretty important because I like being able to have so many different sounds with the flip of a switch, etc.

What do you guys think about this? There are a few important things to consider:

1) Gibson's are hard/uncomfortable to play
2) I've heard a bunch of people say "PRS was great before 95, then they started sucking" What gives?
3) Les Pauls do not come coil tapped (I think?) from the factory
4) I will be playing mostly rock/metal with this, most importantly very clean powerful leads

Any advice from people who own one would be amazing, thanks.

 

[agnitrate]

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

1) Gibson's are hard/uncomfortable to play

This is the only one I can comment on. I've played several Gibsons and can attest that they are not comfortable AT ALL to play, especially my friend's Gibson Gothic. It's the most god-awful ergonimcally designed guitar ever.

Whichever you choose, I'm going to have to give it a test run so make it a good one

-silver

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: agnitrate

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

1) Gibson's are hard/uncomfortable to play

This is the only one I can comment on. I've played several Gibsons and can attest that they are not comfortable AT ALL to play, especially my friend's Gibson Gothic. It's the most god-awful ergonimcally designed guitar ever.

Whichever you choose, I'm going to have to give it a test run so make it a good one

-silver

Well the thing about them is that they are heavy as fvck and completely bottom weighted. This is what gives them their insane sustain though, so it's a method to madness situation.

 

[AlienCraft]

< close professional association with Neal Schon, noted Les Paul & PRS player and Dave Meniketti, LONG TIME Les Paul player.
I think it comes down to the one that "feels" right to you. The tones are very close, and adding a tap for single -coiling the pick ups isn't that hard. Meniketti has had the same Les Paul for over 20 years as he has been unable to find one with the same neck profile as he currently owns. It seems that guitar was built with a "modern" body wiuth a "Vintage" (NewOldStock) neck.
Something that isn't spoken of, is the addition by many guitar player, (Schon, Vai, Satriani for example) of the addition of the Fernandez SUSTAINER system. This addition will enable you to engage a "sustained" note with the flick of a switch and to affect the harmonic range it engages in. It's not cheating, it actually uses a magnetic field to "excite" the string, but will do it at a substantially reduced volume.
There are many different neck profiles with Les Paul's, I think PRS has a better wood selection process, and with some input from you, they will make some modifications on instruments for you, at a cost, for sure.
Either guitar would be desirable , imo. It's about how it feels in your hands.

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft
< close professional association with Neal Schon, noted Les Paul & PRS player and Dave Meniketti, LONG TIME Les Paul player.
I think it comes down to the one that "feels" right to you. The tones are very close, and adding a tap for single -coiling the pick ups isn't that hard. Meniketti has had the same Les Paul for over 20 years as he has been unable to find one with the same neck profile as he currently owns. It seems that guitar was built with a "modern" body wiuth a "Vintage" (NewOldStock) neck.
Something that isn't spoken of, is the addition by many guitar player, (Schon, Vai, Satriani for example) of the addition of the Fernandez SUSTAINER system. This addition will enable you to engage a "sustained" note with the flick of a switch and to affect the harmonic range it engages in. It's not cheating, it actually uses a magnetic field to "excite" the string, but will do it at a substantially reduced volume.
There are many different neck profiles with Les Paul's, I think PRS has a better wood selection process, and with some input from you, they will make some modifications on instruments for you, at a cost, for sure.
Either guitar would be desirable , imo. It's about how it feels in your hands.

Thanks for the good advice. Would you be able to break exactly HOW coil tapping works into idiots terms. I understand the process, but I am unable to find anyone who can actually tell me what it is, not to mention how it would actually work on that specific PRS I listed. Also, do you know anything about that quality drop I was referring to?

 

[ThePresence]

I never found it difficult at all to play my SG. I've never heard anyone say that Gibson's are uncomfortable to play. They are heavy though.

 

[Platypus]

bump

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Thanks for the good advice. Would you be able to break exactly HOW coil tapping works into idiots terms. I understand the process, but I am unable to find anyone who can actually tell me what it is, not to mention how it would actually work on that specific PRS I listed. Also, do you know anything about that quality drop I was referring to?

I believe some people object to the increased production PRS now has due to addition of robotic technology. I have toured PRS and find their wood selection / aging methods to be an "Old School" method that works well.
As far as coil tapping is concerned.... a Humbucker is two coils of wire with one lead tied together. Coil tapping is the process of being able to seperate that connection with a switch. So instead of One pickup with two coils, you end up with single coil pickups, More gain, but a greater sucseptibility(sp) to EMI /RFI buzz.
Go to www.stew-mac.com for tech details. I'll try to find a pictorial diagram for you.

 

[Pepsi90919]

PRS was great before 95, then they started sucking

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
PRS was great before 95, then they started sucking

Many players disagree with you.
Some of us think QA went out the window, along with all the NOS Les Paul necks and bodies, with the new regime at Gibson USA.

 

[Gibson486]

I agree that the Les Pauls are heavy, but i would not say they are hard to play.

Anways, play them both at the store. You can't go wrong with either.

 

[Platypus]

The only reason people say PRS guitars started to suck after 95 was that they stopped being handmade and started going to machining. This is ridiculous though as Gibsons are machined as well. I would say it doesn't mean it sucks, just lesser quality than a handmade one, as would anything be. Also, the Artist Package has better wood than the stock one.

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: Gibson486
I agree that the Les Pauls are heavy, but i would not say they are hard to play.

Anways, play them both at the store. You can't go wrong with either.

Maybe it's just me, but the action feels very sluggish and muddy on them. My fingers don't move as gracefully from one fret to the next as they did on say, a strat, or a PRS.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation
The only reason people say PRS guitars started to suck after 95 was that they stopped being handmade and started going to machining. This is ridiculous though as Gibsons are machined as well. I would say it doesn't mean it sucks, just lesser quality than a handmade one, as would anything be. Also, the Artist Package has better wood than the stock one.

Agreed, The PRS guitars are still hand assembled and set up by real players and not just some marginally skilled assembly line workers working for a low market rate. Also, the only thing "machined" on them are the bodies and necks, which to my way of thinking, assures better consistency in the parts.
I'll take either one if they're giving them away.

 

[KEV1N]

As a side note, I switched to bass after playing guitar for 7 years. It's different.. you play a different role in the band. Anyway I think it comes down to personal preference, so you should stop the internet research now and just go to a guitar shop and try em out.

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: KEV1N
As a side note, I switched to bass after playing guitar for 7 years. It's different.. you play a different role in the band. Anyway I think it comes down to personal preference, so you should stop the internet research now and just go to a guitar shop and try em out.

I would agree 100%, problem being that the only PRS dealers in my state are where I'm from in Indianapolis, and I am all the way up at school so I can't just leave to go play them. I gather as much research on the net as possible so I know exactly what to look for when I do make it down there to play them. My best advice to anyone buying an instrument is ALWAYS to play it first.

 

[Fritzo]

Try shaving the neck. I had someone do it for my on my LP Custom and it made a world of difference. I think Jimmy Page's famous LP has a shaved neck as well.

 

[Platypus]

Well I got my PRS yesterday. It rocks hard.

 

[nan0bug]

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: Gibson486
I agree that the Les Pauls are heavy, but i would not say they are hard to play.

Anways, play them both at the store. You can't go wrong with either.

Maybe it's just me, but the action feels very sluggish and muddy on them. My fingers don't move as gracefully from one fret to the next as they did on say, a strat, or a PRS.

Thats probbably an individual thing... do you have small fingers? I think that LP's are way easier to play than Strats, but I have big hands.

I agree that LP's are heavy, I don't know about uncomfortable though.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation
Well I got my PRS yesterday. It rocks hard.

Obligatory pics?

BTW, congrats

 

[Mucman]

I play cheap guitars... they sound good enough to me. I can't justify spending more than a couple hundred bucks on an instrument.

Alex Lifeson plays a PRS, so that makes you cool in my books

 

[silverpig]

I have an Epiphone Les Paul (with a lot of gibson hardware... pickups etc). It's a great guitar, sounds awesome, plays great etc. It is heavy, but the sound is worth it.

Honestly though I'd probably go with a new PRS over a new Gibson right now. I've seen and played the new Gibsons and while they sound great, the wood just doesn't seem as good as it used to be. Hell, my $800 Epi has a nicer top than the $3500 Gibson Standard Plus they had in the store the day I picked mine up. I played them one after the other, and neither I, nor any of the guys in the shop could tell the difference in sound (this was after my pickup install).

Of course, if I could get a vintage les paul or a custom built one, I'd take that over pretty much anything.

 

[thomsbrain]

well both of those are quality guitars. i personally wouldn't play them because A: i prefer 25" scale necks. B: i need some relatively light so i can rock out properly. C: my favorite pickup is a single-coil sized humbucker. but those are all personal preference things. no one could say either of those guitars suck, and i'm sure you're gonna be really happy with the PRS you bought.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
well both of those are quality guitars. i personally wouldn't play them because A: i prefer 25" scale necks. B: i need some relatively light so i can rock out properly. C: my favorite pickup is a single-coil sized humbucker. but those are all personal preference things. no one could say either of those guitars suck, and i'm sure you're gonna be really happy with the PRS you bought.

Single coil sized humbucker? WTF?

Aren't humbuckers by definition double coils, with one wired in reverse and 180 degrees out of phase?

 

[nan0bug]

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
well both of those are quality guitars. i personally wouldn't play them because A: i prefer 25" scale necks. B: i need some relatively light so i can rock out properly. C: my favorite pickup is a single-coil sized humbucker. but those are all personal preference things. no one could say either of those guitars suck, and i'm sure you're gonna be really happy with the PRS you bought.

Single coil sized humbucker? WTF?

Aren't humbuckers by definition double coils, with one wired in reverse and 180 degrees out of phase?

I think hes talking about the size of the humbucker. Usually humbuckers are twice the size of a single coil, he likes ones that are the same size as a single coil, something I've never seen but I imagine they do exist.