Guesstimate? when will we see this?

[T101]

When would you guesstimate that we will have single card powerful enough to run Tomb Raider Legends with its Next Gen content on, at a constant 60+ FPS?

With current card, overclocked to 480Mhz Core, I average 25 FPS, with drops down to 10-13 in some really heavy outdoor scenes. When I bought this 7800GT I never expected it to not be able to run games at top setting so soon. Thought I would at least get six months out of it. But I guess it is time to save some cash to upgrade soon again...

 

[TanisHalfElven]

yeah well that cuz the game is bugged. nex-gen only give 10 fps on nearly every card including the x1900xtx.

 

[thilanliyan]

My minimum is around 25-30fps all the time, even with the next gen content on but soft shadows off . 1280x1024. But with the overclocked X1800XL. I think the X1900s or 7900GTXs should be able to run the game pretty well.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: tanishalfelven
yeah well that cuz the game is bugged. nex-gen only give 10 fps on nearly every card including the x1900xtx.

That is not true.

http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2006/04/11/tomb_raider_legend_review/4.html

 

[T101]

Disabling Shadermodel 3.0 (registry setting) gives me the greatest performance boost. And I can not say that I see any difference in graphical quality. I have not found a way to turn of soft shadows, since turing of shadows in the options disables all shadows.

But to get back to the topic, when do you guess we will have single gpus powerful to run graphics like this, without dropping below 60+ FPS? from what I can see around the web, it seems nvidia and ati at the moment are more interested in making budget cards (although they are probably developing next gen cards too).

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

When are we going to get programmers who can produce code that runs well on current cards?

The best engines can scale well with a range of cards, without having to neuter the entire game.

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: Dethfrumbelo
When are we going to get programmers who can produce code that runs well on current cards?

The best engines can scale well with a range of cards, without having to neuter the entire game.

QFT. example - Half Life 2.

Old games were programmed well, when the size of the application was important (floppies)- programmer optimized code to work well. now, they just toss a bunch of code together until the game works...

 

[JBT]

Thats proably why HL2 also took over 5 years to produce.

 

[josh6079]

I know what you mean. It pisses me off how these game companies seem to develope crappy engines more than rabbits make bunnies. I think that since we have so much hardware room, they have to be sloppy with the code to get the game out on time and to force industry in the hardware. Otherwise, technology would slow down because on is more advanced than the other.

I'm not trying to piss on developers, I would hate to try to code everything in today's game before a certain deadline. I just get frustrated when we get brand new games and put them with the appropriate hardware and still have a huge list of problems. Other software companies wouldn't dare halfass a piece of their product that they would be selling to a corporation or they would be out of business. Yet with us general public gamers they are granted a little more freedom. I hate the fact that games even need patches, but I also understand how they would need them. Oh, the frustrations of reality I guess.

 

[1Dark1Sharigan1]

I thought the 84.43 drivers improved the performance significantly for nvidia cards . . .

 

[T101]

1Dark1Sharigan1: Well, I would not say that 5 Fps from running at 10 FPS is that a significant improvement. Sure it improved things, but it is still very unplayable on a 7800GT with Next Gen content on (and you really want that, since without it it does not look good at all).

 

[framerateuk]

My X1900 XTX does a excellent job with TR:L most of the time, only a few slowdowns when fog/mist with lights and shadows at the same time.

Id imagine the next generation of cards will easily cope with the game, and probably easily cope with Oblivion at better framerates too.

 

[T101]

framerateuk: The main question I wonder about, is when will we see these cards, and will the continue the trend of such insane prioces? (A x1900xtx cost 5795 Swedish Kronor, which is about the sum you pay for most brand computers).

 

[RussianSensation]

New R600 or G80 should be able to push run the game at 40fps+ average since generational leaps tend to double performance as of late. With refreshes in 6-8 months from them, 50-60 framerates are a strong possibiliy. So probably summer of 2007. However, I doubt you'd need 60 framerates per second average for a 3rd person game for enjoyable gameplay.

 

[framerateuk]

I would have thought so yes

The top end cards now are a lot more powerfull than the equivelant cards a few years ago. Also the performance boost between the top line, and the next line down dont tend to be that high (not much between the XT and XTX), so a lot of the time its better to go for the next card down (unless your find a good deal, or really need to extra performance to power a large monitor!).

If you have a top end card though, youll find the value holds quite well. I bought a 7800GT for £249 in October and sold it for £200 on ebay in March (when i found a great deal on a X1900 XTX). If your willing to shed cash more often you can keep up to date without too much trouble.

I still realise these are almost the same prices as you could get an XBOX 360 for though :s. And in comparison to that, they are very very expensive. In comparison though, the cheap computers you mention wont really be any good at gaming, and would require a large amount of money spent on them to get them to a level good though to play modern games on.

 

[T101]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
New R600 or G80 should be able to push run the game at 40fps+ average since generational leaps tend to double performance as of late. With refreshes in 6-8 months from them, 50-60 framerates are a strong possibiliy. So probably summer of 2007. However, I doubt you'd need 60 framerates per second average for a 3rd person game for enjoyable gameplay.

Probably not, but I was thinking that since one game has arrived with that eye-candy, there are bound to be more. And if it comes to other types of games, 60+FPS is desirable, if not necessary. There is nothing like playing a game on full eye-candy settings and having it running smooth as silk.

 

[T101]

Originally posted by: framerateuk
I would have thought so yes

The top end cards now are a lot more powerfull than the equivelant cards a few years ago. Also the performance boost between the top line, and the next line down dont tend to be that high (not much between the XT and XTX), so a lot of the time its better to go for the next card down (unless your find a good deal, or really need to extra performance to power a large monitor!).

If you have a top end card though, youll find the value holds quite well. I bought a 7800GT for £249 in October and sold it for £200 on ebay in March (when i found a great deal on a X1900 XTX). If your willing to shed cash more often you can keep up to date without too much trouble.

I still realise these are almost the same prices as you could get an XBOX 360 for though :s. And in comparison to that, they are very very expensive. In comparison though, the cheap computers you mention wont really be any good at gaming, and would require a large amount of money spent on them to get them to a level good though to play modern games on.

No, they wont be good for gaming, but the largest section of PC buyers do not game that much, if at all. So it was more to point out what an extreme price situation it is when it comes to gaming hardware. Without problem, the graphics card today is the single most expensive part of your computer, and the one with the shortest lifespan. It is a situation that is so rediculous that you don't really know if you are to laugh or to cry.

As for the trade-up deals, that is something that does not exist here. It is something you in the US are blessed to have. As for selling the card to buy a new one. Well, I perhaps can get 1200 Swedish Kronor for a card that cost 5795 Kr just a few months ago. Second hand hardware sells for very low prices here. But then, second hand hardware for gaming is not really that useful if you want to play the latest games.

As you say, the prices you mention are in the price range of an Xbox360, and that hardware will have a much longer lifespan. I think it perfectly displays where us PC gamers who are dissatisfied by the increasing hardware demands to eye candy ratio of games, should really put the blame.

 

[framerateuk]

Im not from the US And have never had any tradeup deal

I just sell my old cards on ebay to get some cash back from them, i got £70 for an old 9800 Pro AIW just 2 months ago. If you sell the hardware when its still usable (like my 7800GT for example, im sure it would be great for someone who games at 1024x768 or 1280x1024, but it just wasnt enough for my 1920x1200 monitor) your bound to get a decent amount back for it. Its better than any tradeup, and you dont have to be bound to the cards of one company .

Most people dont buy PC's for gaming, they stick with consoles, but for those of us that prefer PC's, we get the newest technologies as soon as they come out, as oppossed to having to wait for the next generation of consoles. Just compare Half Life 2 to Halo 2 to see how far PC's came on during the XBox's life span.

Im not dissatisfied by the lifespan of my card, graunted i dont like spending money all the time, but im glad theyre constantly pushing the standards forward, and not simply going along with that the 360 and PS2 are doing.

Also, compare the price of games If you buy a lot of games for the 360 your spending a lot of cash (£50 per game) . PC games are generally about £20 cheaper than their 360 counterparts. I bought Tomb Raider Legend for £17.99 including postage! Oblivion only cost me £30 too, compared to the 360 version which costs £50!

 

[remagavon]

Buy an Xbox 360.

 

[T101]

True, the games on the consoles are extremly expensive compared to the PC versions sometimes even twice the price over here, so I guess you pay as much on the consoles as on the PCs, just on different parts of your entertainment experience.

 

[framerateuk]

Its a lot more even than people make it out to be, but if you bought a high spec PC now, and spent about £1500 on it, you could easily have the same standard of graphics as a 360, if not better, and you'd continue to have the same level of graphics as the 360 until you replace your PC, also youve got the advantage of being able to do other things on it aswell as game.

I was shocked when i got my 360, i bought 3 games (Amped3, Perfect Dark Zero and Condemed) and the total came to £150! If id bought 3 PC games, the total would only have been around £90. I guess id rather spend a lot intitially and spend less as i go on, instead of shelling out £50 whenever i want a new game.

 

[Drayvn]

You do have to remind yourself to add the cost of the monitor or TV your going to be playing the PC of Console on. And to take advantage of the full power for the Xbox360 you need HDTV, and as i last saw they are quite expensive. So all in all you would probably be paying about the same for each of them. Tho technically the TV would probably last longer...

Anyway, on to the subject of the TRL... Its just poor programming, played Oblivion, Far Cry, or any of those recent games? They look far better than TRL and run considerably faster. And the fact that TRL had to have a patch out before the game was released to optimize the game for a nvidia sponsored game for their gpus as the game was poorly coded for the cards!

 

[BenSkywalker]

And to take advantage of the full power for the Xbox360 you need HDTV, and as i last saw they are quite expensive.

The 30" HDTV I bought for my bedroom cost almost exactly the same as my 22" monitor. Most enthusiasts hang on to monitors through several PCs, most hardcore console gamers hold on to TVs through many consoles.

Anyway, on to the subject of the TRL... Its just poor programming, played Oblivion, Far Cry, or any of those recent games?

Did they seriously reduce the IQ of TRL for the PC? I can see the comparison with Oblivion(although TRL looks quite a bit better, it is far more cramped) but FarCry? Totally different league.

And the fact that TRL had to have a patch out before the game was released to optimize the game for a nvidia sponsored game for their gpus as the game was poorly coded for the cards!

TRL is a native ATi game.

 

[T101]

Originally posted by: Drayvn
Anyway, on to the subject of the TRL... Its just poor programming, played Oblivion, Far Cry, or any of those recent games? They look far better than TRL and run considerably faster. And the fact that TRL had to have a patch out before the game was released to optimize the game for a nvidia sponsored game for their gpus as the game was poorly coded for the cards!

Played oblivion, and at any higher settings, the 7800GT struggles. Farcry, new? sorry, I do not agree with you. I played FarCry, a long time ago (three computer upgrades in the past). I would not say that FarCry comes close to either TR Legend or Oblivion.