GTX650Ti - Discussion Thread (speculative for now)

[MLSCrow]

680------(1536/32)
670------(1344/32) one shader module disabled
660Ti-----(1344/24) one SM and one ROP Unit disabled
660(OEM)-(1152/24) two SM and one RU disabled.
660(retail)-(960/24) 3 SM and one RU less (not disabled - GK106)
650(retail)-(384/16) 5 SM and two RU less (not disabled - GK107)

So, where does that leave the 650Ti?

Will it ever exist? If so, what do you think the specs will be. What do you think the specs should be?

I personally was hoping that the 660 retail would be the 1152/24, which could have suggested that the 650Ti would have been the 960/24 model, but it seems that the retail 660 will end up with the 960.

My personal goal is to find the best price/performance ratio that will reach my personal gaming performance goal of 60+fps in just about every current game @ 1920x1200 with 4xMSAA, 4x TransparencyMSAA, 16xAF.

So, what I've been waiting for are for the $100-200 Kepler cards to reach the market, so that I can grab two of them and run Sli to achieve this goal, which would be more cost efficient than buying a single card solution. I think I understand why NVidia has been so late to fill in these price points, because people like myself would always buy two $200 cards instead of one $500 card, if the performance of those 2 cards would be better than the single card.

I believe that Nvidia wanted to hold off on providing that option so that they could sell their single cards before offering this option, but that's a speculative corporate marketing theory of course.

In any case, its' been leaked that even down to the 650 level, cards will come with options of up to 2GB RAM, which suits my needs for my goals, BF3 is a RAM hog as we all know, so 1.5GB simply won't cut it, it's gotta be 2 or more, and yes, if Nvidia's offerings don't perform the way I hope, I'll probably switch my plan from Sli to Xfire, though I've always enjoyed supporting the ghost of 3Dfx with Sli specicially.

Anyway, what do you guys think? Please share your thoughts. :thumbsup:

 

[Arkadrel]

I think the 660ti at its current price is a bad buy (compaired to say a 670).
and I dont see why a 650 would be any differnt.


Reguardless I dont think it ll beat a card like this in terms of performance/price:

^ Sapphire Radeon HD 7850 for ~189$ on newegg.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102999

Maybe a 650 will be faster? but I doubt it. Will it be cheaper? maybe.

A 660 ti has about 30% performance advantage (@1920 resolution's) compaired to a stock 7850, but costs 300$+.
So for ~30% more performance, you pay 189$->300$+ , around 60% more total.

A 60% increase in cost for 30% performance.. doesnt take a math genius to figour out that performance/cost goes down alot.

You can overclock a 7850 and reach ~7950 levels (faster than a stock 580, 660ti), and thats from a 189$ card.
It basically fits what you mentioned you wanted above, only its not nvidia made.

 

[MLSCrow]

Some variants of the 660Ti are poorly priced, I agree, however, if you can get a $299 660Ti to overclock well to the point where it almost performs as well as a 670, then you've gained traction in the price/performance game. I think it will continue to get better with each card they release. It follows a trend. As you can see, price/performance-wise, a good overclocking 660Ti > 670 > 680. If they continue the way they have been, we can speculate that the 660 at least, will continue the trend, but with the news that the 650 is 384 shader units and such a big gap from 650 to 660 with 960 units, I think that until we see specifications for the 650Ti, that the 660 retail might end up being the best price/performance product out of the kepler lineup. For $458, you can get two 660's which will net you 1920 shader units and 48 ROPS, vs the 1536 shader units and 32 ROPS for $499 with the GTX680.

If it's true that the 650 will only have 384 shader units, unless it costs $99, I don't think it will have as good of a price/performance ratio as the 660. I'd have to run 4 650's in quad Sli, forget that.

I'm starting to doubt that a 650Ti will ever manifest. With talk of the GTX780 already abound, why would they even bother?

 

[3DVagabond]

nVidia hasn't released the cards because they don't have them. They haven't willingly ceded the midrange market to AMD trying to sell more $400+ cards.

Personally, I would rather adjust IQ in a couple of games rather than deal with dual GPU scaling and microstutter issues. If I were buying nVidia this gen, I'd get one of the better 670's. YMMV.

 

[MLSCrow]

nVidia hasn't released the cards because they don't have them. They haven't willingly ceded the midrange market to AMD trying to sell more $400+ cards.

Personally, I would rather adjust IQ in a couple of games rather than deal with dual GPU scaling and microstutter issues. If I were buying nVidia this gen, I'd get one of the better 670's. YMMV.

I respect that you have you own opinion on why NV hasn't released the cards yet, but considering that both the 670 and the 660Ti are simply cut down version of GK104, you really think it's because they didn't have them? They've had GK104 for a while now, I believe it's part of their business model.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if NV and AMD have decided to work together rather than against each other and have agreed on an alternating schedule so that each company can bask in the limelight for a period of time before the other can step in and have it's turn. I can see it now, the board members going golfing together on the weekends. lol

 

[3DVagabond]

I respect that you have you own opinion on why NV hasn't released the cards yet, but considering that both the 670 and the 660Ti are simply cut down version of GK104, you really think it's because they didn't have them? They've had GK104 for a while now, I believe it's part of their business model.

nVidia has stated from the beginning they are supply constrained. All evidence points to this being true. Besides, I thought this thread was about the 650ti? What does how long the GK104 has been around have to do with it?

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if NV and AMD have decided to work together rather than against each other and have agreed on an alternating schedule so that each company can bask in the limelight for a period of time before the other can step in and have it's turn. I can see it now, the board members going golfing together on the weekends. lol

I actually thought you were posting about trying to decide what to buy. This is just pure wild speculation with absolutely no evidence or basis in facts. It makes it really hard to take you seriously. If you do have any sort of facts at all, please forward them to the FTC. They'd be extremely interested in hearing them.

I gave you my recommendation as to what I would buy and why (the 670). I hope the opinion was useful.

 

[coffeejunkee]

If it will exist it has to be based on GK106 since GK107 has no disabled modules. I'm assuming it will have 1 module disabled so it will have 4 x 192 = 768 cuda cores.

I'm not sure GK106 has only 5 modules or if it actually has 6 with 1 module disabled. In that case there could also be a GTX660 1152sp version.

 

[Crap Daddy]

If it will exist it has to be based on GK106 since GK107 has no disabled modules. I'm assuming it will have 1 module disabled so it will have 4 x 192 = 768 cuda cores.

I'm not sure GK106 has only 5 modules or if it actually has 6 with 1 module disabled. In that case there could also be a GTX660 1152sp version.

There's an information over at videocardz, don't know if accurate but there seem to be three GK106 SKUs plus one for workstations. Knowing how NV operates there will probably be one 660SE and the 650Ti based on GK106.

I think that a refresh for GK106 for GTX760 might bring 1152SPs as you say.

 

[Smoblikat]

GK110 is what im waiting for, the real high end keplar. Not this fake mid range shit that NV is selling for 500$.

 

[ocre]

nVidia has stated from the beginning they are supply constrained. All evidence points to this being true. Besides, I thought this thread was about the 650ti? What does how long the GK104 has been around have to do with it?



I actually thought you were posting about trying to decide what to buy. This is just pure wild speculation with absolutely no evidence or basis in facts. It makes it really hard to take you seriously. If you do have any sort of facts at all, please forward them to the FTC. They'd be extremely interested in hearing them.

I gave you my recommendation as to what I would buy and why (the 670). I hope the opinion was useful.

i think sometimes people want to just discuss, speculate, and dream about hardware. Many people are enthusiast of hardware and just like to share it with others. You would think that these forums would be a great place to do so.

If you read anything he wrote (including the title), i cannot see how you would think he was "posting about trying to decide what to buy". I think he was just aiming at some small talk about future hardware, nothing serious just a sort of chat. I for one welcome such a thing. It would be nice for a change.

so lets take off the salesman hat and sit down for a chat over a cup of tea.

 

[ocre]

As for the OP,
I would like to say the 650 whatever is a total failure because it is "late". Just gonna go ahead and put it out there ahead of time so we can get past that part. lol

anyway-
i was actually confused with the pre-performance figures for the 660 non ti. Its actually a lot closer to the ti considering the huge cut it cuda cores. The gk106 seems a little more powerful than i thought it would be. I think it would be great if the 650 is a barely cut down gk106. There are many here who already choose to dislike anything from nvidia at this point. They say its pointless for nvidia to even have cards at these lower price-points and performance levels. I bet it would be nice for AMD if nvidia didnt. The point is for nvidia to have a full complete 28nm line-up......late or not! If the cards arent interesting to the many ultra-proAMD people here, then that is fine. But pointless, its far far from. These cards will actually benefit AMD enthusiast all the same. Many fail to realize that their AMD cards will be selling for cheaper as the nvidia alternatives make for an ultra competitive market. Of course there are many other reasons for people to be interested in Nvidia getting their complete line up launched, but the one i bring up directly makes the world better for any AMD fan-massively over the top fanboy to the slightest of preferences alike, these cards from nvidia are anything but pointless.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

http://www.techpowerup.com/169790/GeForce-GTX-650-Ti-Specifications-Detailed.html

Hey, look, specs on the 650Ti.

 

[Arkadrel]

http://www.techpowerup.com/169790/GeForce-GTX-650-Ti-Specifications-Detailed.html

Hey, look, specs on the 650Ti.

660Ti-----(1344/24) one SM and one ROP Unit disabled
660(OEM)-(1152/24) two SM and one RU disabled.
660(retail)-(960/24) 3 SM and one RU less (not disabled - GK106)

I guess if the 660ti is ~30% faster than a 7850....
Then a card with 40% less CUDA cores (660ti-->650ti), is gonna be slower than a 7850.

So we re probably talking about a sub 200$ card, with the 650ti, for it to compete against the 7850.

 

[coffeejunkee]

http://www.techpowerup.com/169790/GeForce-GTX-650-Ti-Specifications-Detailed.html

Hey, look, specs on the 650Ti.

28 nm GK106 silicon
960 CUDA cores
192-bit wide GDDR5 memory interface
1 GB and 2 GB memory options
Q4-2012 launch

As we know by now those are the specs for GTX660, not GTX650Ti. They are right about GTX650 being a GDDR5 version of GT640. There will be a pretty big gap between Ti and non-Ti GTX650 I guess.

 

[RussianSensation]

GK110 is what im waiting for, the real high end keplar. Not this fake mid range shit that NV is selling for 500$.

Johannes Kepler was a pretty important person in world's history. His laws provided one of the foundations for Isaac Newton's theory of universal gravitation; and his last name has 2 e's.

As for the OP,
I would like to say the 650 whatever is a total failure because it is "late". Just gonna go ahead and put it out there ahead of time so we can get past that part.

That's a very good point, especially since GTX650 = GT640 with GDDR5. That makes it an even bigger failure since NV could have had this exact card out on the market months ago if it didn't butcher it with GDDR3. NV has not had any good budget cards for many generations now (GTS450 and GTX550Ti were both overpriced at launch).

Looking at the rumored specs of GeForce GTX 650 Ti = GK106-200, 576 CUDA cores, 128-bit memory bus, that's not looking like it will change any time soon.

With HD7850 2GB now dropping to $190, the 650Ti 128-bit card is basically irrelevant already. Also, you can now find HD7770 for just $105. NV is 6-8 months late with its 28nm desktop roll-out and this is what happens. The current 28nm HD7000 series will soon be replaced by HD8000 series while NV is just finishing their low-end GPU roll-out.

This isn't even HD7000 vs. GTX600 series anymore, it's "Why buy a 28nm generation GPU this late into the end of a 1st 28nm generation when HD8000 series is likely less than 6 months away?" NV basically lost this generation's "$100-250 price segment" since they never showed up for 7 months (HD7750/7770 launched February 15, 2012). Sorry, but GT650/650Ti with that level of performance 7 months later is a fail based on how Moore's law and the performance/$ technology curve works in GPUs. Also, GTX660 is dropping when HD7850/7870 are going for $190-220, again adding no value at all to the market's price/performance curve already being provided by old AMD cards. All NV is doing is showing up with the same performance, but 6-7 months later.

So, what I've been waiting for are for the $100-200 Kepler cards to reach the market, so that I can grab two of them and run Sli to achieve this goal, which would be more cost efficient than buying a single card solution.
Anyway, what do you guys think? Please share your thoughts. :thumbsup:

No, it would not be more cost efficient. That's a bad idea for both AMD and NV cards since low-end and mid-range GPUs in CF/SLI have the most micro-stutter since they have the least performance, which means the lowest average and minimum frames per second. Also, based on how GTX660Ti SLI performs, it's almost a given that GTX670 OC or HD7970 OC will provide better performance overall to GTX660 SLI.

Buying GTX650Ti SLI for $325 for example would be far worse than a $350 GTX670 or a $300 HD7950 OC. Even if somehow GTX650Ti SLI was 10-20% faster than GTX670 OC, micro-stutter alone would make this a terrible buy to begin with. And then there is the case that not all games have proper CF/SLI scaling, which means you'll end up with GTX650Ti/660 performance in those situations and keep waiting for driver updates. Unless you can afford at least HD660Ti SLI, you shouldn't even be thinking about SLI.

 

[tviceman]

The card I think the OP is wanting to know about will be GK106 based, and will likely have 1 SMX unit fused off, leaving it with 768 cuda cores, and probably putting it at roughly the speed of a gtx560ti (maybe a little bit faster depending on the core clock speed).

 

[MLSCrow]

i think sometimes people want to just discuss, speculate, and dream about hardware. Many people are enthusiast of hardware and just like to share it with others. You would think that these forums would be a great place to do so.

If you read anything he wrote (including the title), i cannot see how you would think he was "posting about trying to decide what to buy". I think he was just aiming at some small talk about future hardware, nothing serious just a sort of chat. I for one welcome such a thing. It would be nice for a change.

so lets take off the salesman hat and sit down for a chat over a cup of tea.

Thank you for the defense, you are 100% correct, I simply just wanted to discuss and "speculate" as to what the 650Ti might be like, along with anything else you may want to talk about.

I did come across this fairly new article though, which may/may not shed some light on the subject.

http://videocardz.com/34730/nvidia-to-release-four-gk106-graphics-cards

 

[tviceman]

Thank you for the defense, you are 100% correct, I simply just wanted to discuss and "speculate" as to what the 650Ti might be like, along with anything else you may want to talk about.

I did come across this fairly new article though, which may/may not shed some light on the subject.

http://videocardz.com/34730/nvidia-to-release-four-gk106-graphics-cards

The gtx660 has been 98% confirmed to be a fully functional GK106 GPU with 960 cuda cores. The gtx550 has been 98% confirmed to be a fully functional GK107 GPU with 384 cuda cores.

If there is a gtx550ti, and if it is one step below the gtx660, then it will have 768 cuda cores and, like I already said, will be about as fast or maybe slightly faster than a gtx560ti.

 

[MLSCrow]

Johannes Kepler was a pretty important person in world's history. His laws provided one of the foundations for Isaac Newton's theory of universal gravitation; and his last name has 2 e's.

:thumbsup:

No, it would no be more cost efficient. That's a bad idea for both AMD and NV cards since low-end and mid-range GPUs in CF/SLI have the most micro-stutter since they have the least performance, which means the lowest average and minimum frames per second. Also, based on how GTX660Ti SLI performs, it's almost a given that GTX670 OC or HD7970 OC will provide better performance overall to GTX660 SLI.

Buying GTX650Ti SLI for $325 for example would be far worse than a $350 GTX670 or a $300 HD7950 OC. Even if somehow GTX650Ti SLI was 10-20% faster than GTX670 OC, micro-stutter alone would make this a terrible buy to begin with. And then there is the case that not all games have proper CF/SLI scaling, which means you'll end up with GTX650Ti/660 performance in those situations and keep waiting for driver updates. Unless you can afford at least HD660Ti SLI, you shouldn't even be thinking about SLI.

Thanks for your feedback, I have not yet read much about the "microstutter" yet, and yes, that would bother me, but as far as every review I've ready so far, 660Ti's in SLI and HD7850's in SLi both seem to perform far better than a single 7870, 670, or 680 and cost less in the meantime. All I am going on are the benchmarks that have been done and posted out on the internet. Can you link me to discussions or reviews that mention the microstutter, please? I'm really interested, because the last thing I want to do is buy a setup only to have a problem like that. Thanks!

 

[RussianSensation]

You definitely do not want to touch HD7850 CF / GTX660 SLI with a 30-foot pole. The slower the cards, the more they micro-stutter and as games get more GPU demanding, those 2 slow cards will get even slower and have even more micro-stutter.

Micro-Stuttering: So Subtle, Yet So Annoying
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-stutter-crossfire,2995-3.html

See how HD6870 CF > GTX580 based on framerates but when you look at what happens in the game, it's another story for those 6870s.

As games get more demanding, it's going to stutter even more, forcing you to add a 3rd card to get smooth level of frames as a single card provides at lower frames.

No matter how fast dual cards you get, eventually next gen games come out that make them stutter. TechReport investigated this as well.

If you just looked at the frame-rates, you'd think HD6990/ GTX590 are not any slower than HD7970 in Crysis 2:

However, it's a stutter fest on those dual-GPU cards to get those frames:

This is why if you see HD7850 CF / GTX660Ti SLI > HD7970 GE / 680 in frames, it doesn't mean anything. The micro-stutter is there, and when you don't have CF/SLI scaling, you end up with a GPU setup 40-50% slower than a single high-end card!

And then when next generation of cards is released, the support/drivers for your older generation will get worse and worse while the single fast GPU will continue to perform well without needing constant CAPs and SLI profile updates. The reason people buy HD7950/670/680/7970 CF/SLI is because it gives them very good performance even when SLI/CF scaling doesn't work and it gives them more time before the micro-stutter becomes really bad because current games don't drop these card stop 40-50 fps averages where they would be micro-stuttering in next gen games. They use those cards while they still provide smooth framerates and dump them when the next generation comes out because they know it's only a matter of time before micro-stutter rears its head (this is because 45 fps average on dual cards is far worse than 40-45 fps average on a single card).

 

[ocre]

You definitely do not want to touch HD7850 CF / GTX660 SLI with a 30-foot pole. The slower the cards, the more they micro-stutter and as games get more GPU demanding, those 2 slow cards will get even slower and have even more micro-stutter.

Micro-Stuttering: So Subtle, Yet So Annoying
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-stutter-crossfire,2995-3.html

See how HD6870 CF > GTX580 based on framerates but when you look at what happens in the game, it's another story for those 6870s.

As games get more demanding, it's going to stutter even more, forcing you to add a 3rd card to get smooth level of frames as a single card provides at lower frames.

No matter how fast dual cards you get, eventually next gen games come out that make them stutter. TechReport investigated this as well.

If you just looked at the frame-rates, you'd think HD6990/ GTX590 are not any slower than HD7970 in Crysis 2:

However, it's a stutter fest on those dual-GPU cards to get those frames:

This is why if you see HD7850 CF / GTX660Ti SLI > HD7970 GE / 680 in frames, it doesn't mean anything. The micro-stutter is there, and when you don't have CF/SLI scaling, you end up with a GPU setup 40-50% slower than a single high-end card!

And then when next generation of cards is released, the support/drivers for your older generation will get worse and worse while the single fast GPU will continue to perform well without needing constant CAPs and SLI profile updates. The reason people buy HD7950/670/680/7970 CF/SLI is because it gives them very good performance even when SLI/CF scaling doesn't work and it gives them more time before the micro-stutter becomes really bad because current games don't drop these card stop 40-50 fps averages where they would be micro-stuttering in next gen games. They use those cards while they still provide smooth framerates and dump them when the next generation comes out because they know it's only a matter of time before micro-stutter rears its head (this is because 45 fps average on dual cards is far worse than 40-45 fps average on a single card).

just about every one of those charts are pretty useless. They have nothing to do with SLI for 660s or 650s. You spout so much out as fact and now your posting 100% irrelevant charts. Is this an attempt to purposefully mislead people or what? I think your very aggressive in forcing your one-sided views. Its strange the amount of effort your putting into stuff like. You know that the 660ti and 650 arent represented in your charts. You also know that these things are subjective to the individual. What your preferences are may not be for everyone and shouldnt be forced on others. Also what people choose to do with their money is their choice. People choose what they want. The of SLI performance for whatever cards is their choice to make. I personally dont enjoy multi card setups but some people just enjoy doing stuff like that. They find it interesting and it is theirs to experience. Some just love hardware and do things just to do it. But anyway....

BTW, seems you forgot to add that nvidia is late and therefore its pointless to SLI anything from them.

 

[toyota]

good grief, you dont have to quote the whole post especially directly underneath it. at least take out the IMG tags if you are going to do that.

 

[RussianSensation]

just about every one of those charts are pretty useless. They have nothing to do with SLI for 660s or 650s. You spout so much out as fact and now your posting 100% irrelevant charts. Is this an attempt to purposefully mislead people or what? I think your very aggressive in forcing your one-sided views. Its strange the amount of effort your putting into stuff like.

Do you have to quote my entire post that takes up HALF A PAGE?

So you claim micro-stutter is fake? Are you saying all the people on our forum who bought GTX280 over 8800GTX SLI, GTX480 over GTX460 SLI, GTX580 over GTX560 SLI, HD7970 GE vs. HD7850 CF are stupid?

Is this video that shows micro-stutter fake?

Here is Far Cry 2 HD6950 CF micro-stutter (that's a very fast setup on paper). Notice the frames are at 60 fps and yet in the right frame of the video the game stutters? How come, the frame counter shows the game should feel very smooth?

Like I said micro-stutter is relevant for ALL low-end and mid-range GPUs especially, regardless if it's 660s or 650s. The more GPU load, the less the frame rates for dual-GPU cards and dual-GPUs cards need much higher frame-rates to provide a similarly smooth feel in a game than a single-GPU does. The more next generation games come out, the more GPU load will be on a card, exacerbating the micro-stutter phenomenon on slower GPUs. This was already proven in that Tom's Hardware HD6870 CF and Tri-Fire analysis I linked earlier. This exact scenario is already happening to HD6990/GTX590 and those do not have budget GPUs, but last generation high-end GPUs. Actually both of those have single-GPUs much faster than what the 650 will be, and even a single 660 is hardly going to be much faster than a GTX570 OC / HD6970. So it's actually the perfect comparison. If GTX590/HD6990 are stuttering already, then GTX650/660 SLI are likely to be just as bad already.

For example for dual-GPUs you may need 60 fps average while a single-GPU card will feel just as smooth running the same game at 45 fps because of micro-stutter on dual-GPU cards. That's why in general on our forum almost no one would attempt to recommend HD7850 CF over say HD7970 GE (unless you add 30% overclocking to those 7850s), or HD7770 CF vs. HD7950 OC. Even if 7850 OC CF would be 20-30% faster in certain cases, overall it may still not provide a better gaming experience because you have to wait for SLI/CF profiles to fix your scaling in new games (Guild Wars 2), and not all games scale 100%. The same will be true for 660 SLI vs. 7970 GE. So no point wasting $400 on 2 low-end GPUs when there are superior single-GPU NV and AMD alternatives. The OP alluded to that $100-200 GPUs in SLI/CF would provide better value but that's not necessarily true (I mean unless you find GTX660Ti for $200 sometime soon).

You do know that HD7970 GE is 75% faster than a single HD7850 is?
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2012/test-amd-radeon-hd-7950-mit-925-mhz/3/

That means GTX660 SLI is likely to be barely as fast as 1 $430 GPU. Thus, it's a total waste of $ since you run into SLI scaling issues and micro-stutter. Don't like the 7970 GE, fine, get a GTX680. Either way, it stands that a single $450-500 GPU will provide a better overall gaming experience than 2x GTX660s. We can already see from GTX660Ti SLI that it's already the case, so obviously GTX660 SLI will be even worse against a single high-end GPU. At least in the case of 7850 there is a huge overclocking headroom but based on the specs of 660, it has 960 Cuda cores and high clock speeds, meaning it has little to no overclocking headroom left.

Most people on our forum would agree with me that it's far better to buy a single fast GPU card such as HD7970 GE or GTX670 OC than to waste it on 2 HD7850s in CF or 660 SLI. This has been the case for many generations now, for example GTX460 SLI < GTX580 for actual gameplay but are faster in frames on paper, and as far back as GTX280 SLI vs. GTX480, etc. Go ask around. It's not just my view, but the view of gamers here. SLI and CF work really well in the beginning of a generation especially with high-end $300+ GPUs, but as time goes on, SLI and CF scaling drops off for older generation of cards as NV and AMD move on to optimize scaling for future generations. This is another reason why most people don't mind recommending mid-range or high-end cards to CF/SLI. Even if the SLI/CF scaling doesn't work, you still have a fast card. If you drop $400 on a GTX660 SLI and the SLI scaling doesn't work, you end up with $200 worth of performance. This is why GTX660 SLI from the get go is a poor recommendation, no matter how offended you are that I say this.

It's pretty obvious you just want to attack me and not focus on my discussion of potential SLI/CF scaling issues and micro-stutter problems which are likely to persist for low-end $100-200 GPUs. The OP suggested that he'd be better off with 2 $100-200 GPUs in SLI/CF than a single-high end card (i.e., GPU GTX670 OC < GTX650 SLI cards) and I disagree with that assessment. The OP asked me to provide him with the information and I did, from here he can make his own decision.

The of SLI performance for whatever cards is their choice to make. I personally dont enjoy multi card setups but some people just enjoy doing stuff like that. But anyway....

Yes, but we are here to help each other and I am not going to tell someone to waste $400 on 2 slow low-end GPUs when a single gaming solution from the same brand is likely going to provide a better gaming experience, especially long-term because micro-stutter will show up even sooner on 2 slower GPUs. You seem to have a fit every time someone says anything negative against your precious NV brand or disagrees with you even in the slightest. The thing is the OP even asked to learn more about micro-stutter. You won't even consider here that GTX670/680 OC may be a better solution than GTX650 SLI / 660 SLI but are throwing a fit already because I said something negative about SLI stuttering (and I also said the same for CF stuttering too).

 

[chimaxi83]

just about every one of those charts are pretty useless. They have nothing to do with SLI for 660s or 650s. You spout so much out as fact and now your posting 100% irrelevant charts. Is this an attempt to purposefully mislead people or what? I think your very aggressive in forcing your one-sided views. Its strange the amount of effort your putting into stuff like. You know that the 660ti and 650 arent represented in your charts. You also know that these things are subjective to the individual. What your preferences are may not be for everyone and shouldnt be forced on others. Also what people choose to do with their money is their choice. People choose what they want. The of SLI performance for whatever cards is their choice to make. I personally dont enjoy multi card setups but some people just enjoy doing stuff like that. They find it interesting and it is theirs to experience. Some just love hardware and do things just to do it. But anyway....

BTW, seems you forgot to add that nvidia is late and therefore its pointless to SLI anything from them.

So, attacking RS's opinions, showing you're basically just mad that everyone doesn't praise Nvidia, and using the same sarcasm about Nvidia being late (for like the 5th time from you)? How about just agree to disagree? Why must there always be a counter balance lol it's not like the guy is making up random facts and/or lying less attacking, more discussing.

Anyway, micro stutter is very real, and it gets worse the lower you go in the GPU hierarchy. It stands to reason that the slower cards like 660/650 will see it even more so. I know I did with 6870 CF last year, and little to no micro stutter on my 680 SLI setup when I had it (though not zero). Some people see it, some don't, that doesn't mean it's not there.

 

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That's a very good point, especially since GTX650 = GT640 with GDDR5. That makes it an even bigger failure since NV could have had this exact card out on the market months ago if it didn't butcher it with GDDR3. NV has not had any good budget cards for many generations now (GTS450 and GTX550Ti were both overpriced at launch).

Looking at the rumored specs of GeForce GTX 650 Ti = GK106-200, 576 CUDA cores, 128-bit memory bus, that's not looking like it will change any time soon.

With HD7850 2GB now dropping to $190, the 650Ti 128-bit card is basically irrelevant already. Also, you can now find HD7770 for just $105. NV is 6-8 months late with its 28nm desktop roll-out and this is what happens. The current 28nm HD7000 series will soon be replaced by HD8000 series while NV is just finishing their low-end GPU roll-out.

This isn't even HD7000 vs. GTX600 series anymore, it's "Why buy a 28nm generation GPU this late into the end of a 1st 28nm generation when HD8000 series is likely less than 6 months away?" NV basically lost this generation's "$100-250 price segment" since they never showed up for 7 months (HD7750/7770 launched February 15, 2012). Sorry, but GT650/650Ti with that level of performance 7 months later is a fail based on how Moore's law and the performance/$ technology curve works in GPUs. Also, GTX660 is dropping when HD7850/7870 are going for $190-220, again adding no value at all to the market's price/performance curve already being provided by old AMD cards. All NV is doing is showing up with the same performance, but 6-7 months later.

Is this really you? I mean i really have to wonder is there something wrong? Do you really think like this?

"why buy a 28nm generation GPU this late?"

I mean are you serious? Your this clueless? So there it is, pull all the 28nm cards off the shelf. There is no point in them, you know RS says so. We dont need them, AMD will have new cards *maybe* in six months. No need in anyone buying anything but AMD in six months- or whenever AMD has the 8000series out. This is insane. I know you are currently the biggest AMD enthusiast ever but this is still absolutely off the deep end.

And then, you really dont understand why nvidia bringing cards at these price points? Are you really this out of touch? It would be nice if AMD was the only GPU choice out there, you might like this. And it might upset you to see nvidia bringing out cards at these price points but i can assure you it is anything but pointless. There is a huge mass of people that will buy these cards in the next dew months. and apparently, for reasons you may never understand. But just because it surpasses your ability to comprehend doesnt make it pointless.

I know you dont want to see nvidia releasing cards in these price points (AMD doesnt either) but they are coming and people are interested in them. You obviously are not interested and thats cool. We all like AMD, i just think you have gone to far. Your AMD so strong you dont even see the point in nvidia cards, thats cool. A very limiting view but its yours to have. Not very many people are that biased and will not be no matter how hard you try to turn them.