GTX570 or 6970 for Q6600 OC'd? $300 budget

[RussianSensation]

Even still, I say a single GTX 460 is a way better value than a 560. Clock-for-clock there is very little difference between the two.

In terms of "value", the 460 768mb is the better card at $100, but not when you are upgrading from a GTX280. In addition, the 1920x1200 resolution is simply too much to handle with AA for a 768mb card imo. From Anandtech's HD6870 review, we know that a GTX460 1GB FTW 850mhz ~ GTX470.

Now take a look at GTX560 @ 950 (SOC) and 1010mhz vs. a stock GTX470.

Crysis = +36%
BF:BC2 = +33%

That's a huge difference! A stock GTX460 can't even beat an HD5830 in those 2 games at 1920x1200. Ouch.

I realize you can overclock the 460 to probably 930-940mhz for a 24/7 operation; so another 9-10% gain for the 460 over the FTW edition. Still this means the overclocked 560 will be about 23-26% faster once you take into account both of them fully overclocked. Looking at the prices of GTX460 1GB in Canada, Newegg.ca has one for $155 after $20 MIR + $11 shipping. That Zotac 560 is $200, so a 29% price premium. Considering the overclocked 560 will be on average 23-26% faster than an overclocked 460, that's not such a terrible deal.

But what about newer games? If we analyze the latest games, the mid-range roots of the GTX460 are starting to become evident.

In Crysis 2, it's outclassed by a stock 560 by 33% and by an astounding 58% compared to a stock GTX470. In fact, it's even 15% slower than a GTX285!

In Dragon Age 2, a stock GTX560 is 41% faster than a GTX460 1GB and 52% faster than the 768mb version.

In Homefront, a stock 560 is 38% faster than a GTX460 1GB and 48% faster than the 768mb version.

In Bulletstorm, a stock 560 is 36% faster than a GTX460 1GB and 44% faster than the 768mb version.

In Test Drive Unlimited 2, a stock 560 is 43% faster than a GTX460 1GB and 58% faster than the 768mb version.

At 1920x1200, the performance of the GTX460 is so lackluster in the latest 2011 games, it's making me hesitate to recommend the 460 1GB for future games. I don't even want to imagine what's going to happen to the 768mb version at 1920x1200 4AA once BF3 ships.

 

[Gikaseixas]

A q6600 at 3.4 is a perfect match for a 6870/5850/5870/gtx560 performance type card.

not a prefect match IMO, those cards cannot stretch their legs with C2Q. i7 is the perfect match. A friend of mine just got a i7 2600K (oc'd @ 4.0) and his 5870 is putting better numbers than mine. (duh)

 

[bryanW1995]

Only thing I'd add is that DAO (and DA2 I assume) is severely cpu-bound, almost as much as civ5. For the others you should see a significant increase in performance.

 

[SickBeast]

RussianSensation, of course the GTX 560 is going to be 40% faster when you compare it to a stock 460, especially if you thrown in 8xAA and compare it to the 768mb version.

The thing is, the GTX 460 can overclock by 40% which would bring it to near parity with the 560.

Your comments regarding the 460 being insufficient for future games do not make sense to me. My pair of them in SLI soundly beat out a GTX 580, which is surely "future proof" to some extent. I don't care that I have to turn off AA and/or turn down the texture settings a notch. It's a worthwhile tradeoff IMO.

 

[Skurge]

RussianSensation, of course the GTX 560 is going to be 40% faster when you compare it to a stock 460, especially if you thrown in 8xAA and compare it to the 768mb version.

The thing is, the GTX 460 can overclock by 40% which would bring it to near parity with the 560.

Your comments regarding the 460 being insufficient for future games do not make sense to me. My pair of them in SLI soundly beat out a GTX 580, which is surely "future proof" to some extent. I don't care that I have to turn off AA and/or turn down the texture settings a notch. It's a worthwhile tradeoff IMO.

Its not soundly beating if you have AA and texture settings lower than the 580. To the OP, those settings might matter. Just sayin'

 

[RussianSensation]

Your comments regarding the 460 being insufficient for future games do not make sense to me. My pair of them in SLI soundly beat out a GTX 580, which is surely "future proof" to some extent. I don't care that I have to turn off AA and/or turn down the texture settings a notch. It's a worthwhile tradeoff IMO.

My point was that in Canada the GTX460 1GB is $155 vs. $200 for the 560. If it was $100 CDN for the GTX460 1GB vs. $200 CDN for the 560, it would be hard to recommend the 560. Also, in the OP's case, he is gaming at 1920x1200 which is pretty high for only having 768mb of ram (and you can see that without overclocking, the stock GTX560 gives the GTX460 768mb a beating for only $50 more).

I agree with you that GTX460 in SLI is a tremendous value, esp in light of $500 GTX580s. But the 580 is one of the most overpriced cards there is.

 

[SickBeast]

My point was that in Canada the GTX460 1GB is $155 vs. $200 for the 560. If it was $100 CDN for the GTX460 1GB vs. $200 CDN for the 560, it would be hard to recommend the 560. Also, in the OP's case, he is gaming at 1920x1200 which is pretty high for only having 768mb of ram (and you can see that without overclocking, the stock GTX560 gives the GTX460 768mb a beating for only $50 more).

I agree with you that GTX460 in SLI is a tremendous value, esp in light of $500 GTX580s. But the 580 is one of the most overpriced cards there is.

Ah, so you've bought into the whole notion that 256mb of VRAM, a few stream processors, and a slightly faster memory bus are somehow worth $55. To me it isn't, even if it means turning down the textures and the AA a bit. On paper it looks like a big difference, but in reality the difference is 3-5%; 10% at the most.

I game at 1920x1200, and so far the only game where I have to turn down the textures even one notch in is Crysis 2. I don't cry about it. I'm happy that my system can run the game at max settings (aside from textures) like it's some kind of joke. My FPS rarely dip below 60FPS, and when they do it's always at least in the 50s. Most games run at 1920x1200 with max settings and 16xAA. This compares favorably to the GTX 580, which, while overpriced, still represents a very fast card.

I was personally underwhelmed by the GTX 560. I expected more from it. Perhaps having a GTX 460 at 950mhz gives me a different perspective.

Again, any benchmarks where it's showing the GTX 560 to be 20-30% faster than the 460 have got to be memory bound with a large discrepancy in clockspeeds. I've got two GTX 460s and they both clock north of 900mhz at reasonable voltages, with temperatures that do not exceed 55C, even in an SLI setup with a heavily overclocked CPU.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree here. Until the GTX 560 comes down in price significantly, I'm not going to recommend it.

 

[gramboh]

Ive got a p5b deluxe and a q6700.

I got 3.475ghz #very# stable out of it. I would recommend you push your cpu as far as you can, and all i have is a 4890.

If you want I can post my settings and voltages from the bios if you want to try it for yourself. Really, you could do with more cpu juice in their bro.

Just curious what your settings are? When I got the CPU years ago, I couldn't get it stable past 3.3GHz, I believe it is at 1.45V in BIOS (1.43ish Vdroop). I have 4 sticks of RAM which might also be an issue. Temps are pretty low with the U120 though, 25-30 idle and under 60 in gaming.

 

[gramboh]

As an update, I picked up the Zotac yesterday afternoon, but before opening it I noticed the MSI Twin Frozr II (880MHz/4200MHz) was $225 after rebate. I did some research on the Zotac and found a few negative reviews in terms of cooling and build quality, so I decided to take back the Zotac before opening it and exchange it for the MSI at NCIX.

Installed the MSI last night, wow, build quality is awesome on this thing. Haven't had time to bench or OC, but it idles at 25-30c, peak temperature 60c after a few hours of BC2 (1920x1200 all settings max 4X MSAA/16X AF, vsync on), fan goes to 50% max. With the twin fax design I cannot even hear it over my case fans (4x Scythe 1200rpm). The Afterburner software also kicks ass. My previous EVGA GTX280 would hit 75-80c in BC2 and the fan was super loud (clearly audible over my case fans).

Card came with Just Cause 2, Mafia II, Starcraft 2 trial, 3DMark 11 pro, new Lara Croft game as well, none of which I own, actually interested in JC2, Mafia and 3DMark so that's good. Going to do some benching and overclocking tomorrow.

I agree with Russian's analysis above on the 460/560. You have to remember that we are both in Canada, there is no 460 for $100 here, it's $155-160ish for the cheapest card, versus $200-230 for the 560 ($200 Zotac cheapest, $225-230 for MSI, EVGA high quality models). The 570 would have for sure been overkill with my CPU. At this time I don't want to buy new mobo/CPU/RAM, waiting for Ivy Bridge at least.

 

[SickBeast]

I'm in Canada and Newegg currently has a 460 for $88. NCIX had my card for $100 two weeks ago.

Anyhow, good job op, I'm happy for you. MSI has come a long way and they produce what are arguably the best nVidia graphics cards today. It's nice to have the 1gb of VRAM, and it will clock higher than the 460 and will perform better as well at similar clockspeeds.

You're going to want another one though. These cards are that good. I think you should plan to add one in 6 months or so when they're clearing them out for $100 or so.

 

[gramboh]

I'm in Canada and Newegg currently has a 460 for $88. NCIX had my card for $100 two weeks ago.

Anyhow, good job op, I'm happy for you. MSI has come a long way and they produce what are arguably the best nVidia graphics cards today. It's nice to have the 1gb of VRAM, and it will clock higher than the 460 and will perform better as well at similar clockspeeds.

You're going to want another one though. These cards are that good. I think you should plan to add one in 6 months or so when they're clearing them out for $100 or so.

I see now, it's the 768mb cards are indeed that cheap, the Zotac is $115 at NCIX right now, I was only looking at the 1GB cards which are $155ish. I didn't really want to go down in VRAM from my GTX280 as some games now/future will need 1GB for 1920x1200 with AA/AF. I still haven't even tried newegg.ca, I prefer buying locally at NCIX/Memory Express, even with free shipping I hate trying to be home for the courier drop-off etc.

Would never have considered MSI years ago, was strictly EVGA, but really impressed with them now. You are right, when they are blowing these out I might consider grabbing one for SLI if the timing lines up with building a new PC.

cheers

 

[RussianSensation]

If we are talking about NV cards with awesome aftermarket coolers, the MSI TwinFrozr, Asus Direct II CU and Gigabyte Windforce series are definitely at the top. EVGA is better know nfor excellent customer service and warranty. Congrats on the new card.

 

[SickBeast]

The MSI Cyclone is very good as well. It's not quite as powerful as the TwinFrozr, but I'm pretty sure it's quieter, and the cards that use it tend to be cheaper.