GTX570 or 6970 for Q6600 OC'd? $300 budget

gramboh

Platinum Member
May 3, 2003
2,207
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Hi,

I know there is a similar thread from a guy running a Q6600, my situation is a bit different. I've been running a GTX280 in my Q6700 @ 3.3GHz since August 2008 and am contemplating an upgrade, rest of specs are in signature. I'm waiting on a total re-build until next year. I can get a GTX 570 for $300CAD and likely get $100ish selling my GTX280 so that means $200 net cost to upgrade, not that bad. The 6970 is about $360 and the 6950 is $250-275 depending on the SKU. I want to buy locally (Vancouver Canada - from NCIX or Memory Express) to test DOA and avoid return fees if there are problems, plus instant gratification :).

This card would be for gaming only, at 1920x1200 on a single LCD. The current games I am playing are Bad Company 2 (medium settings no AA), Portal 2, Dragon Age: Origins (DA2 after I complete it), NFS Shift 2. Games I anticipate playing: Battlefield 3, TES5: Skyrim, Brink, Mass Effect 3.

Performance:

I was initially considering a GTX 460 or 470, but am not sure if it will be a significant performance increase over my GTX280. I used AT's bench to compare (not ideal since I think these are done with a Core i7 platform).

GTX 460 vs GTX 285 (close enough to 280) - roughly the same
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/317?vs=313

GTX 470 vs GTX 285 - some large increases, some not so much, Bad Company 2 not showing up for some reason
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/317?vs=311

GTX 570 vs GTX 285 - huge increases across the board
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/317?vs=311

GTX 570 vs ATI 6950 - close, other than BC2 (which is important to me) and a few others
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/293?vs=306

GTX 570 vs ATI 6970 - ATI wins most
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/292?vs=306

Power considerations:

I have a Corsair HX 520 PSU which has a 6+8 pin PCI connector, and triple 12V rails at 18A each, so power should be ok. The idle and load power consumption isn't much different from the GTX 285 to the 570 and 6970. The 570 and 6970 are close enough in power consumption and noise to me for it not to be an issue.

CPU bottleneck:

From the Q6600 thread, people are talking about anything over a 460/470 being a waste due to CPU bottleneck. I'm having trouble verifying if this is the case, especially with an overclocked CPU. I know some games like Starcraft 2 and Civ5 are heavily CPU bound, but I do not play either of this.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/20486/5

From that analysis, there is obviously a huge hit on using a Q6600 at stock versus the new CPUs. Any idea what my CPU @ 3.3GHz is approximate to? Maybe i5-655k?

ATI vs. Nvidia:

The last ATI card I owned was a 9700 Pro (which was awesome). I have nothing against ATI, but have been very satisfied with my last few NV cards. A big consideration here is my loyalty with eVGA as their customer service has been stellar, and their build quality has never let me down. The step-up program is also great.

I also like NV's drivers and am familiar with profile tweaking etc.

I would consider going to ATI however the 6950 price difference is not enough ($20-50) to change my mind, especially as the 570 is faster in BC2, and the 6970 is $60 more than the 570 here without a huge performance increase.

Overclocking GPU:

This is an area I haven't done much research in, I like to run a mild 10-12% OC on my video cards, I assume both the 570 and 6950/6970 can handle that with stock cooling?

I realize this has turned into a huge text wall, writing it was helpful for me to get my thoughts down even if no one reads it.

Thanks for any comments.
 

Spikesoldier

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2001
6,766
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it sounds like the 570 has won it for you and your price range.

maybe two 460's can provide a little more performance for the same price if you want to go SLI.

also obtainable for 300 is two 6850's, which scale very very well compared to previous CF and SLI offerings.

here is a link to a bc2 benchmark that shows performance for the options currently suggested: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/GPU11/206
i chose 1920x1200 based on your 24" dell monitor, and the 1gb 460's over the 768's.

BC2 AT bench DX11 1920x1200
GTX 570 - 70.8
460 1gb SLI - 76.6
6850 CF - 93.8
6950 2GB - 61.8
6970 2GB - 68.7

now, how bad does your c2q @ 3.3 bottleneck it? id say a 3.0+ quad is capable of pushing modern games at least 60fps except for outliers like metro2033 and maybe crysis 1.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
A big consideration here is my loyalty with eVGA as their customer service has been stellar, and their build quality has never let me down. The step-up program is also great.

I also like NV's drivers and am familiar with profile tweaking etc.

The eVGA GTX570 for $299 at NCIX is a great option if you are a fan of EVGA. Although, I do have some comments regarding the games you play. Take a look at this review of HD6950 2GB vs. GTX570.

At 1920x1200, GTX570 has a small lead in BF:BC2, although it's not any faster in DA2 or Mass Effect 2 at that resolution.
As far as NFS Shift 2 goes, even a 950mhz GTX560 can just keep up with a slightly overclocked 6950 1GB. A 950mhz 560 is about as fast as a 570. So again, 570 doesn't have any advantage over a 6950 2GB in this game either.

Now take a look at this review as well that pits a Core i7 975 vs. a Core i5 750 + GTX480 (for example). At 1920x1200, right off the bat you are losing an average of 14% performance with the NV card (19% in BF:BC2!!!).

Q6600 @ 3.3ghz is going to be slower than a Core i5 750 in games. So keep this in mind when considering a more CPU intensive GTX570 card. I wager with your CPU, the $255 XFX 6950 2GB will perform identically to the 570 card. You also get lifetime warranty with XFX as you would with EVGA.

Just my 2 cents :)
 
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notty22

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2010
3,375
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0
I would say your cpu performs similar to a phenom II at 3.3ghz .

I would say your decision 'troubles' are now, which gtx 570 to buy.
I guess your sticking with Evga. That leaves you the open shroud or the blower type 'reference' version.
I think I would give a reference version the nod.
 

gramboh

Platinum Member
May 3, 2003
2,207
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0
it sounds like the 570 has won it for you and your price range.

maybe two 460's can provide a little more performance for the same price if you want to go SLI.

also obtainable for 300 is two 6850's, which scale very very well compared to previous CF and SLI offerings.

here is a link to a bc2 benchmark that shows performance for the options currently suggested: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/GPU11/206
i chose 1920x1200 based on your 24" dell monitor, and the 1gb 460's over the 768's.

BC2 AT bench DX11 1920x1200
GTX 570 - 70.8
460 1gb SLI - 76.6
6850 CF - 93.8
6950 2GB - 61.8
6970 2GB - 68.7

now, how bad does your c2q @ 3.3 bottleneck it? id say a 3.0+ quad is capable of pushing modern games at least 60fps except for outliers like metro2033 and maybe crysis 1.

Thanks, somehow I missed that you can display benchmarks for games like that :).

My old P965 mobo can actually do CrossFire, one slot is 16x and the other clocks down to 4x, which I imagine has a performance impact on the second card. The problem is I won't have enough PCI-e power connectors to do it, and to be honest I don't want to deal with a multi-GPU setup even if my PSU can handle it. Those numbers are pretty awesome though, especially the 6850 CF, wow.

I'll do some more research, especially about overclocking, but I'm leaning toward the 570 especially with the current rebates bringing it down to $300CAD ($30 instant $30 mail in) for the base eVGA model. Another way I am rationalizing it in my mind is that a 570 should be powerful enough that when I build a new system sometime in mid-2012 I won't immediately need a new video card, whereas with the 280 I would (funny how I can play these games in my mind considering I work in finance).
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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Another way I am rationalizing it in my mind is that a 570 should be powerful enough that when I build a new system sometime in mid-2012 I won't immediately need a new video card


But the thing is 570 isn't fast enough to justify a $100 price premium over the 560.

Upon closer consideration, I say get the $200 GTX560 and overclock it to 950mhz. It's going to be more or less identical to the GTX570 card and you save $100!

GTX560 Oced vs. GTX570 vs. HD6950

With your CPU, overclocking the 570 won't bring serious gains. So why spend 50% more $$ for almost identical performance?

Then you can upgrade in 2012 when Mass Effect 3 launches. $100 towards Kepler or HD7000 series :thumbsup:
 
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Spikesoldier

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2001
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Thanks, somehow I missed that you can display benchmarks for games like that :).

My old P965 mobo can actually do CrossFire, one slot is 16x and the other clocks down to 4x, which I imagine has a performance impact on the second card. The problem is I won't have enough PCI-e power connectors to do it, and to be honest I don't want to deal with a multi-GPU setup even if my PSU can handle it. Those numbers are pretty awesome though, especially the 6850 CF, wow.

I'll do some more research, especially about overclocking, but I'm leaning toward the 570 especially with the current rebates bringing it down to $300CAD ($30 instant $30 mail in) for the base eVGA model. Another way I am rationalizing it in my mind is that a 570 should be powerful enough that when I build a new system sometime in mid-2012 I won't immediately need a new video card, whereas with the 280 I would (funny how I can play these games in my mind considering I work in finance).

965 means pcie 1.0/1.1 speeds.

in light of that, i would stick with a single card. gtx570 or 6950/70.
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
For the people who keep suggesting GTX 460 SLI, I just want to mention something that I posted on another forum:

I'm starting to see why the GTX 460 768mb cards are so cheap. I'm running into some serious memory limitations, particularly in Crysis 2.

I guess because I used to game at lower settings, I underestimated how much GPU memory I would need. My cards were doing awesome in Crysis 2, keeping the FPS constantly pegged at 60FPS on max settings, and then a few missions in, all that went out the window. My FPS dipped into the 30s, and I could swear I saw this "microstutter" that people complain about.

Looking at my monitoring software, I was at 99% VRAM usage, so I turned the settings down a notch in the game. Then it dropped down to 90% usage and my FPS stayed at 60FPS again.

My issue is that one of my main reasons for buying another GTX 460 was so I could max out Crysis 2. This game is way more graphically intense than I had first thought. It's as though the developers made it more and more advanced as they went along.

Anyhow, that ends my rant. I hope I don't look like too much of a crybaby complaining about my badass gaming rig.
If the OP has $300 to spend, the 570 is not a bad choice at all. I think GTX 460 SLI makes sense if you already have one and you have an SLI motherboard to go with it.

There's no sense in having such insane rendering power when you don't have the VRAM to go along with it. I'm finding that out the hard way, unfortunately. If Crysis 2 had a texture setting slider, that would definitely help, but as of now people are SOL.

By the way, I don't even think 1gb would make much of a difference, as that extra 256mb gets eaten up by even a small amount of AA. I'm going to start recommending 2gb cards to people.
 
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Spikesoldier

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2001
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By the way, I don't even think 1gb would make much of a difference, as that extra 256mb gets eaten up by even a small amount of AA. I'm going to start recommending 2gb cards to people.

from the reviews ive read it seems like the 570's computer power is bottlnecked by its 1280mb framebuffer, compared to the 480's same shader count but 1.5gb framebuffer.
 

gramboh

Platinum Member
May 3, 2003
2,207
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But the thing is 570 isn't fast enough to justify a $100 price premium over the 560.

Upon closer consideration, I say get the $200 GTX560 and overclock it to 950mhz. It's going to be more or less identical to the GTX570 card and you save $100!

GTX560 Oced vs. GTX570 vs. HD6950

With your CPU, overclocking the 570 won't bring serious gains. So why spend 50% more $$ for almost identical performance?

Then you can upgrade in 2012 when Mass Effect 3 launches. $100 towards Kepler or HD7000 series :thumbsup:

Good points, didn't really think enough about the 560 and have heard it's a good overclocker. Where are you seeing it for $200 (I see you are in Toronto). It's about $230 after rebate at NCIX, so $70 cheaper (23%) than a 570, or the 570 is 30% more expensive than the 560 to look at it that way. On Newegg.ca it's $250 + $11 shipping less $40 rebate so $220ish, but out of stock.

Would probably get this: http://ncix.com/products/?sku=60803&...nufacture=eVGA with the dual fan setup, plus it's already running at 900/2106 for $237 (but only 3 year warranty) versus $230 for single fan reference @ 850/2052 (lifetime warranty). 950/2149 isn't much of a push from those numbers and that pretty much matches the 570 in the Legionhardware review you pasted.

Thanks for the heads up, will decide today and place the order.

SLI is not an option with my motherboard/PSU, and I don't like multi-GPU anyway.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
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Where are you seeing it for $200 (I see you are in Toronto).

The Zotac 560 is $240 before a $40 Rebate at NCIX.com - $200. But you'll have to manually overclock it to 950mhz. If you don't want to tinker with overclocking, the Gigabyte 950mhz card is $260 CDN. 3 years warranty is sufficient since in 3 years this card will be beaten by a $120 card and plus it will be too slow anyway (so you will have upgraded by then).
 
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gramboh

Platinum Member
May 3, 2003
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The Zotac 560 is $240 before a $40 Rebate at NCIX.com - $200. But you'll have to manually overclock it to 950mhz. If you don't want to tinker with overclocking, the Gigabyte 950mhz card is $260 CDN. 3 years warranty is sufficient since in 3 years this card will be beaten by a $120 card and plus it will be too slow anyway (so you will have upgraded by then).

Awesome, thanks for the heads up. Ordered the stock Zotac version, the OC version (3% GPU OC and 0.01% memory OC lol) was $5 more, but it lacks Displayport (not that I care) and the OC model is longer and has the PCI-e ports on the end which is cumbersome for cable management.

For $200 after rebate I couldn't justify an extra $100 for the 570, whereas at $240 I would've probably paid $60 more. Local pick up is awesome too.

Will report back in a few days, hopefully I can hit between 900 and 950 with it and my PSU.
 

ActionParsnip

Junior Member
Apr 15, 2009
8
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0
Hi,

I know there is a similar thread from a guy running a Q6600, my situation is a bit different. I've been running a GTX280 in my Q6700 @ 3.3GHz since August 2008 and am contemplating an upgrade, rest of specs are in signature. I'm waiting on a total re-build until next year. I can get a GTX 570 for $300CAD and likely get $100ish selling my GTX280 so that means $200 net cost to upgrade, not that bad. The 6970 is about $360 and the 6950 is $250-275 depending on the SKU. I want to buy locally (Vancouver Canada - from NCIX or Memory Express) to test DOA and avoid return fees if there are problems, plus instant gratification :).

This card would be for gaming only, at 1920x1200 on a single LCD. The current games I am playing are Bad Company 2 (medium settings no AA), Portal 2, Dragon Age: Origins (DA2 after I complete it), NFS Shift 2. Games I anticipate playing: Battlefield 3, TES5: Skyrim, Brink, Mass Effect 3.

Performance:

I was initially considering a GTX 460 or 470, but am not sure if it will be a significant performance increase over my GTX280. I used AT's bench to compare (not ideal since I think these are done with a Core i7 platform).

GTX 460 vs GTX 285 (close enough to 280) - roughly the same
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/317?vs=313

GTX 470 vs GTX 285 - some large increases, some not so much, Bad Company 2 not showing up for some reason
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/317?vs=311

GTX 570 vs GTX 285 - huge increases across the board
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/317?vs=311

GTX 570 vs ATI 6950 - close, other than BC2 (which is important to me) and a few others
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/293?vs=306

GTX 570 vs ATI 6970 - ATI wins most
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/292?vs=306

Power considerations:

I have a Corsair HX 520 PSU which has a 6+8 pin PCI connector, and triple 12V rails at 18A each, so power should be ok. The idle and load power consumption isn't much different from the GTX 285 to the 570 and 6970. The 570 and 6970 are close enough in power consumption and noise to me for it not to be an issue.

CPU bottleneck:

From the Q6600 thread, people are talking about anything over a 460/470 being a waste due to CPU bottleneck. I'm having trouble verifying if this is the case, especially with an overclocked CPU. I know some games like Starcraft 2 and Civ5 are heavily CPU bound, but I do not play either of this.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/20486/5

From that analysis, there is obviously a huge hit on using a Q6600 at stock versus the new CPUs. Any idea what my CPU @ 3.3GHz is approximate to? Maybe i5-655k?

ATI vs. Nvidia:

The last ATI card I owned was a 9700 Pro (which was awesome). I have nothing against ATI, but have been very satisfied with my last few NV cards. A big consideration here is my loyalty with eVGA as their customer service has been stellar, and their build quality has never let me down. The step-up program is also great.

I also like NV's drivers and am familiar with profile tweaking etc.

I would consider going to ATI however the 6950 price difference is not enough ($20-50) to change my mind, especially as the 570 is faster in BC2, and the 6970 is $60 more than the 570 here without a huge performance increase.

Overclocking GPU:

This is an area I haven't done much research in, I like to run a mild 10-12% OC on my video cards, I assume both the 570 and 6950/6970 can handle that with stock cooling?

I realize this has turned into a huge text wall, writing it was helpful for me to get my thoughts down even if no one reads it.

Thanks for any comments.

Ive got a p5b deluxe and a q6700.

I got 3.475ghz #very# stable out of it. I would recommend you push your cpu as far as you can, and all i have is a 4890.

If you want I can post my settings and voltages from the bios if you want to try it for yourself. Really, you could do with more cpu juice in their bro.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
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765
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I got 3.475ghz #very# stable out of it. I would recommend you push your cpu as far as you can, and all i have is a 4890.

He will still benefit in more graphically demanding games like Metro 2033, Crysis 1 and 2, Just Cause 2, etc. Although I will note that some games will be CPU limited. I realized this when I benched Resident Evil 5 with my Q6600 @ 3.4ghz and a 4890 back in the days.

1920x1080 8AA/16AF - Fixed Resident Evil 5 Bench

Q6600 @ 3.4ghz + 4890 = 55.1 fps
i7 860 @ 2.8ghz stock w/ 2.93ghz Turbo Mode + 4890 = 77.6 fps (+49%)

i7 860 @ 3.9ghz + 4890 = 78.8 fps (<-- finally the 4890 is maxed out)
i7 860 @ 3.9ghz + GTX470 = 94.0 fps
i7 860 @ 3.9ghz + HD6950 = 106.4 fps
i7 860 @ 3.9ghz + HD6950 unlocked into a 6970 = 118.4 fps :D

This means the 4890 was completely bottlenecked by a Q6600 @ 3.4ghz in this game. Games like Starcraft 2, Civ5 will be CPU limited.
 

betasub

Platinum Member
Mar 22, 2006
2,677
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^ Impressive performance from the OC'd i7-860 in what is normally a CPU-limited game. HT off in BIOS?
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
I simply don't understand. My GTX 460 hits 950mhz and it cost $100. Can someone please tell me why a GTX 560 at 950mhz is worth $100 more when it's essentially the same chip? Is 256mb of VRAM and a few stream processors really worth $100? I don't think so.

Just by the way, a pair of 460s would completely crush everything listed in RussianSensation's post, especially if you overclock them.
 

ActionParsnip

Junior Member
Apr 15, 2009
8
0
0
He will still benefit in more graphically demanding games like Metro 2033, Crysis 1 and 2, Just Cause 2, etc. Although I will note that some games will be CPU limited. I realized this when I benched Resident Evil 5 with my Q6600 @ 3.4ghz and a 4890 back in the days.

1920x1080 8AA/16AF - Fixed Resident Evil 5 Bench

Q6600 @ 3.4ghz + 4890 = 55.1 fps
i7 860 @ 2.8ghz stock w/ 2.93ghz Turbo Mode + 4890 = 77.6 fps (+49%)

i7 860 @ 3.9ghz + 4890 = 78.8 fps (<-- finally the 4890 is maxed out)
i7 860 @ 3.9ghz + GTX470 = 94.0 fps
i7 860 @ 3.9ghz + HD6950 = 106.4 fps
i7 860 @ 3.9ghz + HD6950 unlocked into a 6970 = 118.4 fps :D

This means the 4890 was completely bottlenecked by a Q6600 @ 3.4ghz in this game. Games like Starcraft 2, Civ5 will be CPU limited.

Wow that was quite the cpu limit you had there^^ (that I have too, then, but I figured I had one a long time ago).

He needs more cpu and gpu power, but hes gonna find a lumpy framerate in alot of games if he simply plops a 570 in his system. The q6700 was very good back in the day, but that day is long gone and there are many games that like to have some proper ooomph behind them.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
This means the 4890 was completely bottlenecked by a Q6600 @ 3.4ghz in this game.

But completly playable at 55 fps. If fact you could not tell the difference between a q6600 and a i7 cpu with your own eyes.

A q6600 at 3.4 is a perfect match for a 6870/5850/5870/gtx560 performance type card.
A gtx 570 is a little overkill but the extra memory is nice.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
a few stream processors

192 bit vs 256 bit also. 50 less sp's, 256 mb less ram, and the difference can be playable vs unplayable.

35168.png
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
^ Impressive performance from the OC'd i7-860 in what is normally a CPU-limited game. HT off in BIOS?

No, I left HT on. Didn't bother testing with HT off. PCgameshardware tested with HT off and a stock 920 smokes a stock Q6600.

A q6600 at 3.4 is a perfect match for a 6870/5850/5870/gtx560 performance type card.

Luckily most games are still GPU limited at 1920x1080/1200. So I agree that those cards would be a decent match. However, if you looked at the Xbixlabs review, NV's cards are more CPU limited with slower processors (Post #4). Core i5 750 lost 19&#37; in performance in BF:BC2 compared to the 975 processor. So it really made no sense to get a GTX570 for that CPU since that performance advantage would be eroded by the slower CPU (plus a 950mhz GTX560 is barely slower).

Just by the way, a pair of 460s would completely crush everything listed in RussianSensation's post, especially if you overclock them.

As far as I know, OP's Asus P5B Deluxe board doesn't officially support SLI. Even if it did, the 16x/4x limitation on the 965 chipset is severe. I can only recommend a dual-GPU setup with a P67 chipset or newer. The 965 is even worse than the P55 since its already limited to PCIe 1.1 in the first place.
 
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Necc

Senior member
Feb 15, 2011
232
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0
i7 860 @ 3.9ghz + HD6950 = 106.4 fps
Funny thing that your CPU is bottlenecking that 6950 a tiny bit. Ijust ran same settings resident evil 5 bench with my rig, and as we know that 6950>5870. yet igot 109.9fps and im running a stock 2500k :)
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
As far as I know, OP's Asus P5B Deluxe board doesn't officially support SLI. Even if it did, the 16x/4x limitation on the 965 chipset is severe. I can only recommend a dual-GPU setup with a P67 chipset or newer. The 965 is even worse than the P55 since its already limited to PCIe 1.1 in the first place.
Yeah that would be pretty bad if it's a PCI-E 1.0 board.

Even still, I say a single GTX 460 is a way better value than a 560. Clock-for-clock there is very little difference between the two.

I just can't recommend the 560, 570, or 580 to people. I find that they just don't compete in terms of price/performance vs. the 6950 or even the 6850 or 5850 from AMD.
 

Necc

Senior member
Feb 15, 2011
232
0
0
If iwere in the OP shoes I'd grab an HD5850 and call it a day. for his cpu/resolution its an overkill, prices for the 5850 aren't high in the sky either.