gtx560 (non ti) reviews... rebadge or refresh?

[happy medium]

So what do you guys think rebadge or refresh?
I would say 100% refresh.

Now I would like to back up my claim with some review facts.

From the Anandtech review....

"The GTX 460 used a cut-down configuration of the GF104, and GTX 560 will be doing the same with GF114. As a result both cards have the same 336 SPs, 7 SMs, 32 ROPs, 512KB of L2 cache, and 1GB of GDDR5 on a 256-bit memory bus. In terms of performance the deciding factor between the two will be the clockspeed, and in terms of power consumption the main factors will be a combination of clockspeed, voltage, and GF114’s transistor leakage improvements over GF104. All told, NVIDIA’s base configuration for a GTX 560 puts the card at 810MHz for the core clock and 4004MHz (data rate) for the memory clock, which compared to the reference GTX 460 1GB is 135MHz (20%) faster for the core clock and 404MHz (11%) faster for the memory clock. NVIDIA puts the TDP at 150W, which is 10W under the GTX 460 1GB."

More from the Anand review.....

"However for the GTX 560 this is going to be a reference-less launch: NVIDIA is not doing a retail reference design for the GTX 560"

"As long as you’re willing to spend a bit more in power, GF114 clocks really well, something that we’ve seen in the past on the GTX 560 Ti. This has lead to partners launching a number of factory overclocked GTX 560 Ti cards and few if any reference clocked cards"

and to back up Anands claims... from the Canucks review...

"ASUS GTX 560 DirectCu TOP (1.075V)

Core Speed: 1069Mhz
Memory Speed: 4540Mhz (QDR)


Gigabyte GTX 560 OC (Stock 1.00V)

Core Speed: 928Mhz
Memory Speed: 4324Mhz (QDR)


MSI GTX 560 Twin Frozr OC (1.075V)

Core Speed: 1050Mhz
Memory Speed: 4404Mhz (QDR)"

At these speeds the gtx560 beats a gtx560 ti


And price/ performance?

"So for the slower GTX 560s their closest competition will be factory overclocked 6870s and factory overclocked GTX 460s, the latter of which are expected to persist for at least a few more months. Meanwhile for the faster GTX 560s the competition will be cheap GTX 560 Tis and potentially the 1GB 6950. The mid-range market is still competitive, but for the moment NVIDIA is the only one with a card specifically aligned for $199."

Some graphs on temps, accoustics, power consumtion, from Canucks review.
Sure looks like a referesh to me.

And with those superior above statistics you get much more performance...

In the above games it sure puts the beat down on the gtx460 1gb.

This card is no rebadge, if you wanna see a rebadge go look at a 5770 vs 6770 review.

 

[Arkadrel]

560 (non ti) is NOT a rebaged 460 1gb.

Nvidia did what they did with the rest of the 5xx series, they pulled out some "magic" and fixed up the 4xx series abit. Now the 460 card ways already a great card, thus the 560 is bound to be too

Whos calling it a rebage though?

Anyways this new 560 is bound to give the 6870 abit more competition.

 

[Bearach]

Yeah, not a rebadge... A refined 460 maybe, in that it's the same specs (except for frequency).

People could argue, that a 460 overclocked is just as good and till prices settled they might be right.

Whomever says it's just a rebadge or arguing against it being a refresh is probably just again doing a tit-for-tat.

 

[Lonyo]

Neither.

 

[happy medium]

Neither.

I'll bite, what do you call it?

 

[RussianSensation]

GTX560 Ti is a refresh of the GTX460.
GTX560 is a cut-down version of the GTX560 or another way to look at it is a "factory preoverclocked GTX460, with improved transistor leakage".

But with HD6870s available for $170-180 and GTX560 Ti often coming down to $200-210, it found a nice niche at $200. Although, preferably, it would be better if NV offered it around $180 to put additional price pressure on the 6870s. Not a bad offering, although it's very hard to be excited about a $200 card when $220-230 HD6950 1GB/2GB cards have been available for 2-3 months before it launched.

It's hard to overclock a $130 GTX460 1GB that will reach 920-950mhz overclocks. Prob the best bang for the buck right now for 1080P if overclocking is taken into account.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Mmm. Cherry picked graphics.

 

[Larries]

I have a question in anandtech's review.

Did anandtech used the non-OCed 460 against the 560? If it is OCed, what is the clock speed?

Thanks.

 

[happy medium]

It's hard to overclock a $130 GTX460 1GB that will reach 920-950mhz overclocks.

It is very rare that a gtx460 1gb reaches more than 900 core. I looked for months for a card like mine.
Are you confusing it with the gtx560 ti?

 

[Vesku]

I don't think there was any question that this would be a refresh. Although, I'm with RussianSensation, it will have to come down to the $180 range to make any sense over getting a 560ti or 6950 1GB.

No skin off my back though, I'm waiting on 28nm.

 

[happy medium]

I don't think there was any question that this would be a refresh. Although, I'm with RussianSensation, it will have to come down to the $180 range to make any sense over getting a 560ti or 6950 1GB.

No skin off my back though, I'm waiting on 28nm.

The gtx560ti and 6950 are not the intended price/performance target of the lower clocked cheaper gtx560 card the 6870 is.

From the Anand review...

""So for the slower GTX 560s their closest competition will be factory overclocked 6870s and factory overclocked GTX 460s, the latter of which are expected to persist for at least a few more months. Meanwhile for the faster GTX 560s the competition will be cheap GTX 560 Tis and potentially the 1GB 6950. The mid-range market is still competitive, but for the moment NVIDIA is the only one with a card specifically aligned for $199."

 

[Vesku]

That may be true as it's price drops from launch but $200 is way to close to the next bracket atm. I just think it's foolish to buy an OCed next lower tier card rather than spend an extra 10% for the next performance bracket with untapped OC potential. This applies to OCed 68xx's too.

 

[RussianSensation]

It is very rare that a gtx460 1gb reaches more than 900 core. I looked for months for a card like mine.
Are you confusing it with the gtx560 ti?

I know Asus TOP, MSI Cyclone/Hawx, Gigabyte SOC were some of the better ones. Anyway, the GTX460 1GB costs $130-140. So even a reference card will get up to 850mhz without any issues.

Take a look at this:

EVGA GTX560 336 SP @ 810mhz = $195
vs.
EVGA GTX460 336 SP @ 850mhz = $170 AR

The 560 needs to come down to $170-180 to be competitive. We will likely see rebates shortly.

 

[faseman]

They're just cherry picked 460s. Pretty obvious rebadge. You're paying for an overclock, that's all.

 

[OCGuy]

Refresh.

Rebadging is what AMD did with the 5770-->6770.

 

[happy medium]

I know Asus TOP, MSI Cyclone/Hawx, Gigabyte SOC were some of the better ones. Anyway, the GTX460 1GB costs $130-140. So even a reference card will get up to 850mhz without any issues.

Take a look at this:

EVGA GTX560 336 SP @ 810mhz = $195
vs.
EVGA GTX460 336 SP @ 850mhz = $170 AR

The 560 needs to come down to $170-180 to be competitive. We will likely see rebates shortly.

2$ more for the EVGA gtx 560 @ 850 core and 10 year warranty.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130661&cm_re=gtx560-_-14-130-661-_-Product

So a EVGA gtx560 @ 850 core/ 4000 mem for 197$ & 10 year warranty and better acoustics, temps, power usage and overclocking

vs

a gtx460 @ 850 core, 3900 mem for 170$ and 3 year warranty

27$ more is not that bad for the extras.

 

[VirtualLarry]

10 year warranty

10 year warranty? Sounds like an almost guaranteed free upgrade. I mean, it's not like they will still have GTX560 cards 10 years from now. They'll probably be on 10nm by then. Win!

 

[happy medium]

10 year warranty? Sounds like an almost guaranteed free upgrade. I mean, it's not like they will still have GTX560 cards 10 years from now. They'll probably be on 10nm by then. Win!

Never thought of that, good point.

 

[Larries]

2$ more for the EVGA gtx 560 @ 850 core and 10 year warranty.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-661-_-Product

So a EVGA gtx560 @ 850 core/ 4000 mem for 197$ & 10 year warranty and better acoustics, temps, power usage and overclocking

vs

a gtx460 @ 850 core, 3900 mem for 170$ and 3 year warranty

27$ more is not that bad for the extras.

Based on following EVGA link:

http://www.evga.com/articles/00628/

All KR products quality for the 10 years warranty.

The gtx460@850 core is also a KR product. So, guess that qualifies for 10 years warranty too.

Also, the 460 comes with a miniHDMI to HDMI adaptor (based on newegg picture), while the 560 does not (based on EVGA website picture).

And the 460 includes Photoshop Elements 9. Not sure if the 560 includes it or not.

The 460 comes with free shipping, while the 560 has to register with another service to get free 2 day shipping (not sure what it is worth).

 

[happy medium]

All KR products quality for the 10 years warranty.

Yea you pay extra for it with the gtx460 at newegg..You get the basic KR 3 year warranty.
The 10 year warranty cost an extra 20$.
http://www.evga.com/support/warranty/extended.asp

The gtx560 has a free 10 year warranty. Look at the links at newegg I posted.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-661-_-Product

 

[Bearach]

Yea you pay extra for it with the gtx460 at newegg..You get the basic KR 3 year warranty.
The 10 year warranty cost an extra 20$.
http://www.evga.com/support/warranty/extended.asp

The gtx560 has a free 10 year warranty. Look at the links at newegg I posted.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-661-_-Product

Get a free extended warranty with your KR product purchase!

At the beginning of the year, EVGA revamped the KR product line to include a registration recommended 3 year limited warranty with the option of purchasing an extended warranty to 5 or 10 years. During the months of May and June this year, any qualifying* product that ends in KR will get an automatic 10 year warranty. This is up to a $60 dollar value*, not to mention the peace of mind you have for an additional 7 years, all for free!

• Must purchase a KR (-K1, -K2, -KR) product between 5/1/11 and 6/30/11
• Must register product within 30 days of purchase
• Last day to register is 7/30/11
• Your product will not qualify for Step-Up unless you purchase the extended warranty
• U.S., Canada and EVGA EU region only

Free extended warranty added to each qualifying product during the promotion period automatically. Subject to verification upon warranty redemption.

Did you even read the link he provided? Granted it's not for long, but it would seem they both have 10 years at the moment, if you purchase before the end of June.

EDIT : In fact, the 560 only has 10 years at the moment cause of the promotion.

Performance

NVIDIA GTX 560

850 MHz GPU

336 CUDA Cores

400 MHz RAMDAC

Product Warranty
This product comes with a 3 year limited warranty. Registration is recommended.

 

[Larries]

Yea you pay extra for it with the gtx460 at newegg..You get the basic KR 3 year warranty.
The 10 year warranty cost an extra 20$.
http://www.evga.com/support/warranty/extended.asp

The gtx560 has a free 10 year warranty. Look at the links at newegg I posted.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-661-_-Product

If you read the EVGA link I provided, you will see that:

"During the months of May and June this year, any qualifying* product that ends in KR will get an automatic 10 year warranty."

If you checked EVGA website on the 560 superclocked, you will find it that comes with a standard 3 year warranty.

So, the 10 year warranty listed in Newegg should be based on the EVGA promotion on KR products.

And, the fine print on EVGA website on qualifying product is:

"* Only parts purchased from valid resellers qualify for the promotion. $60 dollar value based on most expensive 10 year extended warranty. All warranties are subject to verification from proof of purchase."

So, I guess Newegg is a valid reseller that qualifies for the promotion. And nowhere it is mentioned that only 560 qualifies for this promotion.

In this case, the 460@850 (which is a KR product) should also quality for the promotion.

 

[Larries]

Oh Bearach beats me. Thanks!

 

[happy medium]

ok missed that, cool! can't beat that.
thanks

So rebadge or refresh?

 

[blastingcap]

10 year warranty? Sounds like an almost guaranteed free upgrade. I mean, it's not like they will still have GTX560 cards 10 years from now. They'll probably be on 10nm by then. Win!

Good thing it's EVGA and not NV. If it were NV, if the bumpgate laptop replacement fiasco was any indication, you'd get a HD4870 10 years from now as your replacement.