GTX260 or Raedon 4870 1GB

[Sentry11]

A silly question really, but I know they are sort of opposite number to each other. So in terms of performance, they might be the same or close to each other. But what about heat dissipation? Which one runs hotter?

Also I read from a few other forums that people are having run time problems, I mean the 4870. Could anybody give me some pointers?

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: Sentry11
A silly question really, but I know they are sort of opposite number to each other. So in terms of performance, they might be the same or close to each other. But what about heat dissipation? Which one runs hotter?

Also I read from a few other forums that people are having run time problems, I mean the 4870. Could anybody give me some pointers?

A few things here, because the answer is not so simple. Under idle conditions, the nVidia card will require less power and will thus dump less heat into your room, office, home, etc... However, under load these two as very similar with the Radeon 4870 slightly being more efficient. However, this can vary as each individual card can vary in power consumption.

Now, keep in mind that power consumption is directly related to heat output. So, if ATI's card and nVidia's card had the same power consumption and they both had the same exact heatsink and fan size and speed and were in the same ambient temperature, they would both be indenticle in silicon temperature. However, we know that they each have their own heatsinks, and they each design their own sized fan and fan speed settings are determined by the parters of nVidia and ATI. So heat can be very misleading. Just always remember that the card that consumes more power is the card that will output more heat, and thus need a better heatsink, fan or higher speed setting for the fan. Any of those combinations.

Some people have used Riva Tuner, or edited the BIOS directly to increase their fan speeds to get better heat dissipation. Of course, the side effect of such a thing: Noise.

Also, the idle power of the nVidia series seem to be a bit misleading. Don't get me wrong, it IS accurate, but the GT200 series downclock themselves when not running any intensive 3D Application. This is why their idle power consumption is lower than the 48XX series. However, you can also use Riva Tuna to set profiles for the AMD card to do the same thing. This then allows the 48XX series of cards to idle similarly to GT200 series.

Flame wars are started by recomending video cards and the honest truth is that both of these video cards are neck and neck. Some had advantages in some areas that others do not... Just have to make an informed decision about your purchase.

 

[Sentry11]

Thanks for your detailed reply. The information is truly useful. It's good to know Riva Tuner can do the job which I didn't know before.

Your thread relates my mind to the different partners of ATi and nVidia. Aren't they all come from the reference design I mean the circuitry, not the heat sink and fan speed. What I am trying to say is that would Asus produces a version which is inherently hotter irrespective what sort of heat sink and fan they deploy than say Sapphire?

This is a chart comparison of a 4870 512MB and 260 768MB. Quite a few games, 260 has beaten 4870 into the water. What do you reckon?

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: Sentry11
Thanks for your detailed reply. The information is truly useful. It's good to know Riva Tuner can do the job which I didn't know before.

Your thread relates my mind to the different partners of ATi and nVidia. Aren't they all come from the reference design I mean the circuitry, not the heat sink and fan speed. What I am trying to say is that would Asus produces a version which is inherently hotter irrespective what sort of heat sink and fan they deploy than say Sapphire?

This is a chart comparison of a 4870 512MB and 260 768MB. Quite a few games, 260 has beaten 4870 into the water. What do you reckon?

Most parters, if not all go, with the reference design PCB when it comes to ATI or nVidia. However, there is some freedom to deviate with different coolers. I have not yet seen any GT200 card deviate form the nVidia reference design and I believe that is due to an agreement between nVidia and their partners. Anyway, this being the case, they can still vary from one card to the other on power consumption. Now, this wouldn't be a 25% varience. It would probably be closer to a 5% varience, if even that much and you wouldn't be able to predict which card consumes less power than another. So buying an Asus over a Saphire would not be of any benefit. The cooler is something to look at though. However, if both cards look the same physically in the pictures, then you can be relatively sure they are using the reference cooler.

As far as performance, the best I can really say is find the games that you either:

1) Currently Play
2) Want to play

Then compare them to benchmarks from several websites (not just one website, cross reference the data to be sure one site isn't skewed) and decide what card will work best for you. There are certain games (GRID) for example that the 48XX just dominates with. Then there are other games that 260GTX dominates. So find what you are playing and want to play, and buy the card that performs the best in those games.

 

[ayabe]

I was facing this question less than 3 weeks ago. I ended up going with the 260 for basically one reason - noise. People generally reported that these cards are pretty quiet while the same isn't the case with the 4870's. Now there are some 4870's with better cooling but I found the selection fairly slim and more pricey. Whilst pretty much every 260, even the most basic versions come with the "good" cooler.

My last two cards, 8800GT (single slot cooler) and 1900xt(double slot) were both screamers and I couldn't take it anymore.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I doubt very much you'll have a very different gaming experience on one card vs. the other.

The 4870 has a rep for being hot simply because AMD opted for a slower fan speed vs. higher for better cooling to keep noise down. This caused the temp of the GPU to read high compared to what people were used to. Raising the fan speed cools the card fine while still keeping noise in check so long as you don't push the speed too high. Again I doubt very much you'd notice a huge difference in heat dissipation one way or another as both cards can have their fan and core speeds tweaked to lower power use when not under load.

Both cards have a few unique features. Nvidia has Physx which is used in a few titles and has some upcoming titles. AMD has DX10.1 which likewise has a few upcoming games and I believe a couple current games use it.

If I were you, I'd decide by looking at benches of games you play at the resolution you play at and see what card best suites you. Also, it doesn't hurt to look where the cards are priced and what extras they include.

But again, whichever you choose I really doubt you'll go wrong, both offer a pretty similar experience from what I've seen written around the web (though I only own a 4870, no first hand experience with both cards).

 

[GaiaHunter]

Its a good headache

Just make sure the GTX260 is the one with 216 shaders. The first version with 192 is a tad slower.

 

[Ares202]

I have my 4870 fan at 33% and its no louder than a case fan

it idles at 42c and loads at about 65c, the default fan is set to very low, on stock fan settings my memory was approaching 100c when i bought it in summer and i was a little concerned by that even though i didnt see any graphical errors so i upped the fan speed to 33% i cant really hear it over my case fans and it now stays nice and cool

once the fan goes over 40% (3000rpm) it starts to get quite loud at 100% its like a jet engine

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: ayabe
I was facing this question less than 3 weeks ago. I ended up going with the 260 for basically one reason - noise. People generally reported that these cards are pretty quiet while the same isn't the case with the 4870's. Now there are some 4870's with better cooling but I found the selection fairly slim and more pricey. Whilst pretty much every 260, even the most basic versions come with the "good" cooler.

My last two cards, 8800GT (single slot cooler) and 1900xt(double slot) were both screamers and I couldn't take it anymore.

The HD4870 is very quiet. I can't even tell if my roommates computer is on when I walk by it. It only gets loud for a second when it heats up after playing Crysis for a few hours, then it goes back to the very quiet mode. He has a reference Saphire card, so I doubt it has anything special for the cooler.

 

[nOOky]

This has been discussed many times. Choose your games and choose the card that excels at them.
Here
The Sapphire 4870 card I use has the heatpipe cooler, it's volume is basically buried in the other case noises so I can't tell if it's running or not.

 

[Sentry11]

Thanks everyone for your invaluable replies. All of you have provided me with answers to a few other questions in my mind. Today I went down town to one of the retail shops and check out the cards. I saw Sapphire Toxic version which looks appealing. Those heat pipes looks cool and imagine that does cool the card a bit, but unfortunately, it lacks of 512MB than the "nin-Toxic" version. Sapphire vanilla 1GB version loks more like a reference card than anything add-ons to it. The heatsink is encapsulated inside a plastic cover and it is red color. Is the heat sink up to the challenge? I read on another forum somewhere that Asus has released a Dark Knight version which has a really smart looking heatsink.

If you are telling me that temperature under load is 65 degrees then I am surprised. My current 3850 under load operates at 71 degrees!! What exactly is the safest temperature for the 4870? And amongst Sapphire, TrueColor, Asus and HIS, which make you recommend? It's really a hard decison to make!

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Sentry11
Thanks everyone for your invaluable replies. All of you have provided me with answers to a few other questions in my mind. Today I went down town to one of the retail shops and check out the cards. I saw Sapphire Toxic version which looks appealing. Those heat pipes looks cool and imagine that does cool the card a bit, but unfortunately, it lacks of 512MB than the "nin-Toxic" version. Sapphire vanilla 1GB version loks more like a reference card than anything add-ons to it. The heatsink is encapsulated inside a plastic cover and it is red color. Is the heat sink up to the challenge? I read on another forum somewhere that Asus has released a Dark Knight version which has a really smart looking heatsink.

If you are telling me that temperature under load is 65 degrees then I am surprised. My current 3850 under load operates at 71 degrees!! What exactly is the safest temperature for the 4870? And amongst Sapphire, TrueColor, Asus and HIS, which make you recommend? It's really a hard decison to make!

I suggest you wait until Thursday to make this decision.

It's rumored stereovision launches then for NVIDIA.

I always use the best computer gaming equipment, and I don't think I'll be gaming anymore without this.

That says a lot. My Dell 3007 WFP-HC sitting unused next to my 22" 120Hz monitor says a lot more.

If you're 100% certain you can't or won't be buying a new monitor to jump on this, and want an ATi card, be sure to get a 1GB version.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Sentry11
Thanks everyone for your invaluable replies. All of you have provided me with answers to a few other questions in my mind. Today I went down town to one of the retail shops and check out the cards. I saw Sapphire Toxic version which looks appealing. Those heat pipes looks cool and imagine that does cool the card a bit, but unfortunately, it lacks of 512MB than the "nin-Toxic" version. Sapphire vanilla 1GB version loks more like a reference card than anything add-ons to it. The heatsink is encapsulated inside a plastic cover and it is red color. Is the heat sink up to the challenge? I read on another forum somewhere that Asus has released a Dark Knight version which has a really smart looking heatsink.

If you are telling me that temperature under load is 65 degrees then I am surprised. My current 3850 under load operates at 71 degrees!! What exactly is the safest temperature for the 4870? And amongst Sapphire, TrueColor, Asus and HIS, which make you recommend? It's really a hard decison to make!

I suggest you wait until Thursday to make this decision.

It's rumored stereovision launches then for NVIDIA.

I always use the best computer gaming equipment, and I don't think I'll be gaming anymore without this.

That says a lot. My Dell 3007 WFP-HC sitting unused next to my 22" 120Hz monitor says a lot more.

If you're 100% certain you can't or won't be buying a new monitor to jump on this, and want an ATi card, be sure to get a 1GB version.

I have always been interested in stererovision type stuff... How do you like it? Obviously you like it, but... any draw backs?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

I have always been interested in stererovision type stuff... How do you like it? Obviously you like it, but... any draw backs?

Can't say much about the stereo as I'm under NDA till launch.

I'll be happy to discuss what some will say are the drawbacks then though from an end user perspective.

This reminds me a lot of when I got my first 3DFX Voodoo1 and saw Glide games. Once you saw that, whatever else you had been doing instantly became pretty much irrelevant.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Sentry11
Thanks everyone for your invaluable replies. All of you have provided me with answers to a few other questions in my mind. Today I went down town to one of the retail shops and check out the cards. I saw Sapphire Toxic version which looks appealing. Those heat pipes looks cool and imagine that does cool the card a bit, but unfortunately, it lacks of 512MB than the "nin-Toxic" version. Sapphire vanilla 1GB version loks more like a reference card than anything add-ons to it. The heatsink is encapsulated inside a plastic cover and it is red color. Is the heat sink up to the challenge? I read on another forum somewhere that Asus has released a Dark Knight version which has a really smart looking heatsink.

If you are telling me that temperature under load is 65 degrees then I am surprised. My current 3850 under load operates at 71 degrees!! What exactly is the safest temperature for the 4870? And amongst Sapphire, TrueColor, Asus and HIS, which make you recommend? It's really a hard decison to make!

I have the Sapphire Toxic edition, it overclocks quite well. I understand that a 1GB edition is in the works. At 820MHz/4600MHz the highest temp I have seen to date is 54C. The fan is quite quiet to me up to ~43% duty. I just leave it at auto which generally keeps in in the ~35% duty range (very quiet at the temps I see) and am able to run those clocks without any stability issues.

http://www.stevesgrandehead.com/Radeon%204870/VRM.jpg

 

[aceshigh23]

Originally posted by: ayabe
I was facing this question less than 3 weeks ago. I ended up going with the 260 for basically one reason - noise. People generally reported that these cards are pretty quiet while the same isn't the case with the 4870's. Now there are some 4870's with better cooling but I found the selection fairly slim and more pricey. Whilst pretty much every 260, even the most basic versions come with the "good" cooler.

My last two cards, 8800GT (single slot cooler) and 1900xt(double slot) were both screamers and I couldn't take it anymore.

So have you received and are using your new 260? How does the noise compare to your old 1900xt. I'm currently upgrading from a 1900xtx, and really don't want another dustbuster card. Is the 260 pretty quiet?

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: ayabe
I was facing this question less than 3 weeks ago. I ended up going with the 260 for basically one reason - noise. People generally reported that these cards are pretty quiet while the same isn't the case with the 4870's. Now there are some 4870's with better cooling but I found the selection fairly slim and more pricey. Whilst pretty much every 260, even the most basic versions come with the "good" cooler.

My last two cards, 8800GT (single slot cooler) and 1900xt(double slot) were both screamers and I couldn't take it anymore.

The 4870 stock cooler is also a "good" cooler. If you don't touch its fan speed, it will be whisper quiet, no more noisier then an 1200 rpm 120mm fan.

 

[Tempered81]

there's a poll going right now on Xtremesystems for gtx 260 vs. hd 4870. right now it's at 44 to 44 votes... 50% vs. 50% hahah

Pretty even if you ask me:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...howthread.php?t=213028

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Your 3850 gets up to 71? Wow. Mine, with the Asus Glaciator, never breaks 50C. Right now it's idling at 38C.

 

[Zillatech]

I too am concerned with the noise of each card and I did really like the Sapphire "Black" 4870 1GB for that reason but I found it also dumped extra heat inside my case. The fan was defective so I did a refund to see if there was something better. I just ordered the HIS 4870 IceQ4+ 1GB model and if I'm not happy with that, I'll look at the GTX 260 (c216) or better yet the coming GTX285. I do like Nvidia drivers better but ATI's are not bad either.

If Nvidia can keep the heat/noise down on the new GTX285 card, I think they will beat the 4870 1GB models hands down but they will also be more expensive too. I really wanted to try the new HIS card so I could judge for myself before going back to Nvidia for this generation of cards.

Hopefully the newer 40nm cards from both camps (Q2 2009 time frame) will have both higher performance and use better cooling so heat & noise won't be as much of an issue as it is right now. I think video cards have become too loud and too hot in general.


Edit: I forgot to mention "Size" earlier, the new GTX200's are too big too. I have "Lian Li" Mid-Tower case and you can't have any hard drives in the way with Nvidia's new cards. The AMD cards are still designed within reasonable limits and that's another reason why I haven't chosen Nvidia this time.

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: Zillatech


If Nvidia can keep the heat/noise down on the new GTX285 card, I think they will beat the 4870 1GB models hands down but they will also be more expensive too.

Uhm, GTX 285 it will be faster then the 4870 1gb model, there isn't any doubt about it. This card can be compared with a 4850X2, but it has nothing to do with the 4870. Keep in mind that the "old" GTX 280 is faster then the 1gb 4870, so the 285 model, that comes with a 10% extra performance, is even faster.

 

[Zillatech]

I guess for me, if the cards are the same physical size than I would just go the GTX285 route but only if the heat and noise are less.

The 55nm GTX260's don't produce any less heat/noise then the 65nm ones so I was bummed about that. Maybe Nvidia will not gimp the heatsink on the new 285's like they did on the 55nm 260's.

If only AMD could lower the GDDR5 Memory speeds without making the screen flicker, the 48xx series cards could idle much cooler too. That's the only real down side of that card when looking at the power draw.

 

[aceshigh23]

Originally posted by: Zillatech

The 55nm GTX260's don't produce any less heat/noise then the 65nm ones so I was bummed about that. Maybe Nvidia will not gimp the heatsink on the new 285's like they did on the 55nm 260's.

They gimped the heatsinks? That stinks. I was hoping the 55nm 260s would be quieter.

 

[soccerballtux]

I'd take the 1GB 4870 for sure. We're getting to a point where that extra memory counts (like in games like WoW).