GTX 980 goes mobile

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tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
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I learned the answer to this question selling PCs at Dell. The answer is that when you graduate high school your rich aunt is only willing to buy you one PC for college use. Hitting her up for a gaming desktop and a chromebook blows your cover, plus dorms are small. So you rack up her credit card on a heavy $2500 monster laptop before she thinks twice. In fact, you might do this even if you don't game in a hope of buying a computer that is relevant for four years.

I made a killing back at Dell during August, so many dads and Aunts buying overpriced laptops. That was before MacBook really took off though, I bet they kinda dominate the rich aunt non-gamer demographic now.
I'm not even kidding when I was going to school I wanted a cheap gaming rig and laptop.

Father said no so I tried a nice small laptop. It was a Sony, my dad used Sony, it was "too good" for me.

But a gaming laptop that's more expensive than every option I previously mentioned was fine! Lol. Ridiculous.

A gaming laptop is cool though. Many traditional gamers won't get it since they don't move away from their primary rig often. It was amazing for gaming everywhere I was though. I played the majority of xcom enemy unknown on my gaming laptop in a car ride.

Do gaming laptops bench well? No, but there are more things than just benchmarks.....
 

Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
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Which is meaningless for the mobile market. Who on earth wants a 17" 4k screen let alone a 15"? Unless you're a photographer, the screen would be useless for pretty much anything else except killing your battery even when just squinting at your desktop.

Lol.

You project FAR too much logic onto the average gaming laptop buyer. Gaming laptops dont make sense in the first place logically vs desktop + light and portable except in the very rare case. The entire affair is an emotional purchase from start to finish. I'd bet buyers are frothing at the bit to buy higher res gaming laptop panels because its a bigger number and makes them feel good, and for no other reason.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
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So next year more than 75W TDP GPUs will be overkill for 1080p gaming (laptop or desktop) for current games.
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Lol.

You project FAR too much logic onto the average gaming laptop buyer. Gaming laptops dont make sense in the first place logically vs desktop + light and portable except in the very rare case. The entire affair is an emotional purchase from start to finish. I'd bet buyers are frothing at the bit to buy higher res gaming laptop panels because its a bigger number and makes them feel good, and for no other reason.

And people wonder why PC gamers are called elitists.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
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Is it a big enough market for AMD to justify the expense of making fiji mobile though?

NV can certainly afford to take the risk of making the 980 mobile.

Not so sure about AMD.

AMD went and made the Nano for a niche of a niche they created. I'm sure the bright bulbs over there are already putting their low volume Fiji chip into some prototype and rolling it out to vendors.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
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All you guys hating on the Clevo DTRs really have no idea why those of us in the target market love them... I'll give you a hint: it's not for gaming, that's just a side benefit.

Skylake 6700K desktop processor + 64GB RAM + 2x SATA + 2x NVMe = perfect for a traveling software guy who needs desktop level performance in a reasonably portable package. Time is money.
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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All you guys hating on the Clevo DTRs really have no idea why those of us in the target market love them... I'll give you a hint: it's not for gaming, that's just a side benefit.

Skylake 6700K desktop processor + 64GB RAM + 2x SATA + 2x NVMe = perfect for a traveling software guy who needs desktop level performance in a reasonably portable package. Time is money.

Most people here are completely narrow-minded. They think that, if something has no value to them, it doesn't have value to anyone.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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If the market is big enough, I'm sure NV or AIBs will release SFF SKUs. $650 is asking too much for that performance level, and to me, it's just not worth the premium. At $500, would be excellent. So yes, more competition if there's a SFF 980, would be good.
 

DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
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All you guys hating on the Clevo DTRs really have no idea why those of us in the target market love them... I'll give you a hint: it's not for gaming, that's just a side benefit.

Skylake 6700K desktop processor + 64GB RAM + 2x SATA + 2x NVMe = perfect for a traveling software guy who needs desktop level performance in a reasonably portable package. Time is money.

I see a lot of DTR Notebooks at work, almost no Macs except in the secretarial/managerial areas. When you need to get work done you need the grunt to do it & you'll 9/10 times be near an outlet.

I expect I will see some of these 980 DTR's at work in the next few months, if only so the bored techies can play their fave games when not working.
 

Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
2,822
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All you guys hating on the Clevo DTRs really have no idea why those of us in the target market love them... I'll give you a hint: it's not for gaming, that's just a side benefit.

Skylake 6700K desktop processor + 64GB RAM + 2x SATA + 2x NVMe = perfect for a traveling software guy who needs desktop level performance in a reasonably portable package. Time is money.

Those are called workstations/DTR. And yes, even these desktop replacements have their place. Its just a niche and human nature being what it is, you have people buying on emotion. Parents will justify the uber laptop because its "for school" but see the desktop as a non moving gaming machine.
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,834
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Those are called workstations/DTR. And yes, even these desktop replacements have their place. Its just a niche and human nature being what it is, you have people buying on emotion. Parents will justify the uber laptop because its "for school" but see the desktop as a non moving gaming machine.

*sigh*

You're right. Only idiots buy these. They don't really make sense to anybody.
 

bradly1101

Diamond Member
May 5, 2013
4,689
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www.bradlygsmith.org
All you guys hating on the Clevo DTRs really have no idea why those of us in the target market love them... I'll give you a hint: it's not for gaming, that's just a side benefit.

My video rendering program is Cuda aware, and woosh!

A laptop with a 980 (cooled well enough) with an NVMe SSD would be a monster at that task.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
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Its just a niche and human nature being what it is, you have people buying on emotion.

Um, I am pretty sure this GPU never ends up in a Macbook ;)

Parents will justify the uber laptop because its "for school" but see the desktop as a non moving gaming machine.

Desktops take up a lot more space than a laptop, need a desk to rest on, and can only be used in the dorm room on the desk (aka the place of infinite temptation and study distractions) while theoretically even a DTR laptop can be taken to the library (aka the place parents hope their students are when they call them to check up and they get the voicemail). These parents have good reasons to buy these monster machines, and young college age nerds have a good reason to demand them.

Let me put it this way: if you could have an offer to have free lunch at any single restaurant for the next four years which restaurant would you pick?

Many people might say their favorite restaurant, or the finest restaurant in town, but the honest truth is after a few months you are wasting the opportunity because you will get burned out on the limited menu of those kinds of places. Meanwhile the college aged kid asking for a DTR laptop is choosing to eat at an multi-ethnic all-you-can eat buffet. Sure any single food item isn't as good as that item would be at a place that specializes in that food, but there would be enough variety that they wouldn't get burned out on one single thing. That way they get maximum benefit from the offer.

It is all about YOUR situation and YOUR needs. Judging people based on just the choices made ignores the context that got them to that point.
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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BTW, that case looks like it can easily accommodate a 980Ti (and subsequent 250W TDP Pascal/Volta successors). I am not sure why are you limiting your upgrade options to only 200W. Maybe sell your underpowered PSU and spring for the 700W Platinum small form factor from Silverstone.

Anyway, looking forward to your build once it goes through.

I prefer open-air coolers for their lower noise levels, but with a tiny CPU cooler + an open-air cooled 200 watt GPU, I worry about fan noise levels needed to keep peripherals in check with modest overclocks. Also, I'm not willing to pay $650 today, let alone the next-gen tax that will surely hike up the prices more.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
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All you guys hating on the Clevo DTRs really have no idea why those of us in the target market love them... I'll give you a hint: it's not for gaming, that's just a side benefit.

Skylake 6700K desktop processor + 64GB RAM + 2x SATA + 2x NVMe = perfect for a traveling software guy who needs desktop level performance in a reasonably portable package. Time is money.

Ok, and how many people need that for productivity? 64GB of RAM for normal consumers, come on now. In other words, based on our specific needs, the Clevo might as well weigh 13-15 lbs and you'd have to use it, correct? Do you know how that sounds for most consumers that want gaming mobility on the go?

Every workplace I've ever worked at where I needed a laptop for work either provided me one for free or provided a huge subsidy towards purchasing one. You are essentially discussing a niche segment of professionals who get these laptops given to them by the workplace. If something is required for work, it might as well cost $5000-10000 for this laptop and the firm will pay for it, unless you are running your own business? It doesn't address why an 8.5-11 lbs brick is attractive for consumers. After-all, they are talking about 980 for gaming but it's possible to build a gaming desktop + awesome monitor and buy an amazingly thin and light form factor laptop for $2500-3000. The desktop is upgradeable for decades down the line and a thin and light MacBook Air or similar will have 10+ hours of battery life and last 5+ years. Can't say the same for the Clevo 980 style laptop that is a lousy desktop and a horribly laptop.

Also, are you suggesting there is a massive target market of gamers who are travelling across the country?

See a 980 level of performance in a 4.5-5 lbs 15.6" laptop would be amazing since it can be used as a laptop. A 55mm thick, 8.5-11 lbs device with 2.5-3 hours of battery life is a technically a laptop, but a horrible one for mobility.

Do you think professionals or high level executives that need productivity on the go are going to lug with them a 50-55mm thick 8.5-11 lbs beast on a daily basis that needs to be recharged every 2.5-3 hours and looks like a kid's toy? Ya, that's going to look very professional in meetings too.

I am not saying there is no use for it for anyone in the world but the use for such devices is extremely limited for anyone who has actually thought about it.

When I went to university, I had a laptop + a desktop because both devices served their specific needs much better than a gigantic overpriced slow and heavy laptop with non-existent battery life. And once the time comes to upgrade the device, take the GPU out of the desktop and throw in a new generation. Most of those $2500-3000 laptops with a 980 will be worthless junk for AAA games in 4 years.

I am sure some of the features you desire don't even require optioning out the 980 as you can find 2xSATA ports and 2x NVMe in other laptops.

Also, why do you require 2xSATA ports inside the laptop? Are you storing more than 4TB of data on a mechanical drive?

The MSI Ghost 60 has 2xM.2 PCIe ports, weighs only 4.36 lbs and is only 0.85".

There are other beastly laptops that are way thinner and lighter than the Clevo that will still fit a GTX980 in them.

Aorus X7 Pro

I think if someone prioritized portability, either of these laptops with an external 4TB 2.5" drive is better, no?
 
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RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
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Desktops take up a lot more space than a laptop, need a desk to rest on, and can only be used in the dorm room on the desk (aka the place of infinite temptation and study distractions) while theoretically even a DTR laptop can be taken to the library (aka the place parents hope their students are when they call them to check up and they get the voicemail). These parents have good reasons to buy these monster machines, and young college age nerds have a good reason to demand them.

You need a desk to use an 8.5-11 lbs laptop, a library desk.

Your entire argument only works for mostly tech illiterate/ignorant parents. Why? Because no parent who is smart would subject their son or daughter to carrying an 8.5-11 lbs laptop + their study materials on a daily basis. This is simply not good for your spine/back unless the person is built. In other words a smart parent would want their child to focus as much as possible on studies which means have as much energy as possible throughout the day between classes. Carrying more weight is not helping achieve those goals.

Further, a tech savvy parent would know that such laptop has horrendous battery lief which means their son/daughter will be subjected to chasing wall outlets in college/university where in many instances not every single student has access to his own power plug outside of the classroom.

In other words, once you start working in groups and having group projects, most students book study rooms, and not just for 2-3 hours but sometimes for 5-8 hours. Small group study rooms in most universities do not have 5-8 outlets. Now imagine carrying an 8.5 lbs laptop, knowing in advance that in 3 hours you can't do any work on it? What are you going to do tell your study group "Oh sorry guys, I have to go home?" Take up their charge slot every 2-3 hours?

Smart students and parents know all of this and plan ahead. That's why any student who is serious about succeeding is going to prioritize weight and battery life so you spend as little time as possible worrying about battery life and straining your back.

Also, what kind of a parent would agree that a $2500-3000 laptop is required to succeed in university? Modern smart adult know that even smartphones and tablets and laptops from 5 years ago with SSDs are not held back by their CPU/GPU performance for MS Excel, PowerPoint, Word, etc.

Maybe a PHD student needs CUDA and insane horsepower but I don't see 18-22 year old college students suddenly needing a $2500 GTX980 laptop to succeed. Again, if my son/daughter tried to sell me on the idea that they need a gaming laptop for university with a GTX980, that would never fly because it's not needed. If they are an engineer, chances are they are better off getting a workstation with FirePro or Quadro.

Most people here are completely narrow-minded. They think that, if something has no value to them, it doesn't have value to anyone.

I don't think some of you truly understood the point I was making. I am all for putting GTX980 into a laptop. You know a LAPTOP, not a briefcase. Only Gigabyte with its Aorus X7 DT line even attempted to make a proper GTX980 gaming laptop.

Their X7 Pro line with dual 970M SLI had these specs:

22.9mm thick
3kgs (6.6 lbs)

17 inches
4x DIMM slots
G-Sync
3x mSATA SSDs (this is probably going to be upgraded to M.2 slots for the next model)

The competitors are bringing out 8.5-11 lbs "laptops" with 45-55mm thick chassis. Sorry, those are not real laptops....they are briefcases with a screen attached to them. They are way beyond the point of reasonable mobility in terms of their thickness and weight. It's not any major accomplishment to shove a 150W TDP GPU inside a thick 45-55mm gigantic case and add childish glowing key lights as marketing bling. The market should be moving towards getting GTX980 to work in thinner and lighter laptops -- that's actual progress. Adding a 980 inside an 8.5-11 lbs laptop is just an ordinary course of business, not innovation.

That's my point. Thus far, only the Aorus X7 even attempted this.

So in reality, consumer criticism towards heavy, low battery briefcases would actually improve the laptop market if laptop makers focused on these priorities. Accepting 8.5-11 lbs luggage isn't doing anything to change that.

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The exciting part about the desktop 980 is ~ 35% higher performance over 980M and 2X the performance over the 880M (Source). Since Kepler 880M came out March 12, 2014, it means that NV doubled mobile dGPU performance with Maxwell in barely more than 1.5 years. Incredible.

Speaking of the Aorus X7 DT,

"In our hands-on session, we were given an MSI GT72 GTX 980 notebook to play with – the large one upon which the Fangbook is based – and achieved an offset OC of +180MHz with zero effort. We'll test full OC potential once a unit is in our hands for testing. Under benchmark load (using Unigen's Heaven), the overclocked GT72 GTX 980 notebook was sitting in the 80-85C range; we're unsure of what ambient was in the hotel room (likely ~20C), but that's still a fully reasonable temperature for an overclocked laptop GPU. Smaller notebooks, like the sub-1” Aorus X7 DT, were still hitting around the ~82C range (not overclocked) with the GPU under full load – not bad for a desktop part crammed into a very thin notebook." (Source)

Looking awesome.

Surprisingly the most powerful 980 SLI laptop doesn't appear to have GSync

980-laptop-pres6.jpg
 
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Blue_Max

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2011
4,223
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^^^ Really, it's more like a "mobile gaming platform" than a 'laptop'. The ability to take that kind of power to places where you will be setting it down on a flat surface to game.

And I 100% agree it's a *terrible* choice for a student, or even for someone like me who brings it to & from work every single day. I cut my laptop weight by over half by sacrificing 17 vs 15.4" screens (not night-and-day different, I've found) and one hard drive instead of two. The new Intel IGP's can even offer some light gaming on the side, but the right config (and NOT gaming) can give you all-day battery life at skool at only 3-5 pounds of weight.

I never should have traded my awesome biz-class 13.3" lappy though... that thing was only 4 lbs but built like a TANK. 1st-gen i3 graphics were worthless for anything but business apps.

Gotta' say though... that Aorus lappy you liked to is sweeeeeeeet! Hope the fans don't sound like a hairdryer when gaming though!
 
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Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
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Any nvidia partner could bin gm204s and put it into a mini itx PCB and match a Nano in performance and beat it in power consumption while they are at it. The issue is there is no point competing with the Nano because there's hardly a market for what the Nano does.

Are you being serious?

How is a lower power 980 going to beat a card it already loses to? This makes no sense.