GTX 960 is expected to launch next month.

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PPB

Golden Member
Jul 5, 2013
1,118
31
106
You keep posting rubbish and cherrypicks in your desperate crusade. 4K res, a single 280X on an extreme offer that differs substantial from the rest in the 230-260$ area. Yes if you spend more you also get more, what a freaking surprise.

But since you are so happy about 4K gaming on lower end cards, can you watch a 4K movie on the 280X? No.




Again you cant even get basic prices right.

The GTX 960 can be had for 159£
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-palit-gtx-960-oc-pcie-30-7200mhz-gddr5-gpu-1165mhz-boost-1228mhz-cores-1024-dvi-i-dl-dvi-d-dl-dp
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-gainward-gtx-960-oc-pcie-30-7000mhz-gddr5-gpu-1165mhz-boost-1228mhz-cores-1024-dvi-i-dvi-d-dp-12

The GTX970 for 260£
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/4gb-msi-gtx-970-4gd5-oc-reference-fan-pcie-30-7010mhz-gddr5-gpu-1076mhz-boost-1216mhz-cores-1664-3xd

But again, it wouldnt look so good would it? All you do is manipulation.
He does get basic prices right, but he also gets it will be dumb to recommend blower style cards like you do to prove a point. Congrats on recommending what is probably the crappiest 970 ever made (it even competes with the other horribad 970 made by MSI which is a 2 fan open air design) only to fail at making a point.

But dont get mad, it's too soon yet to :Awe:

EDIT: Just realized those 2 960 are blower style too. Wow man, just stahp. No sane person would buy a blower style card in this day.
 
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DeathReborn

Golden Member
Oct 11, 2005
1,994
13
91
You keep posting rubbish and cherrypicks in your desperate crusade. 4K res, a single 280X on an extreme offer that differs substantial from the rest in the 230-260$ area. Yes if you spend more you also get more, what a freaking surprise.

But since you are so happy about 4K gaming on lower end cards, can you watch a 4K movie on the 280X? No.




Again you cant even get basic prices right.

The GTX 960 can be had for 159£
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-palit-gtx-960-oc-pcie-30-7200mhz-gddr5-gpu-1165mhz-boost-1228mhz-cores-1024-dvi-i-dl-dvi-d-dl-dp
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-gainward-gtx-960-oc-pcie-30-7000mhz-gddr5-gpu-1165mhz-boost-1228mhz-cores-1024-dvi-i-dvi-d-dp-12

The GTX970 for 260£
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/4gb-msi-gtx-970-4gd5-oc-reference-fan-pcie-30-7010mhz-gddr5-gpu-1076mhz-boost-1216mhz-cores-1664-3xd

But again, it wouldnt look so good would it? All you do is manipulation.
Since both you and Russian are using UK pricing in this discussion I feel I should inform both of you about this:

960 (£150) - http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=gra16_512&xf=1439_GTX+960#xf_top
970 (£245) - http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=gra16_512&xf=1439_GTX+970#xf_top
285 (£134) - http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=gra16_512&xf=1440_R9+285#xf_top
280X (£171) - http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=gra16_512&xf=1440_R9+280X#xf_top
290 (£215) - http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=gra16_512&xf=1440_R9+290#xf_top

Disclaimer - Prices and stock current at the time of this post.

Personally I wouldn't recommend the 960/285 to anyone unless that was all they could afford for the brand they wanted. That is almost entirely based on the 2GB but also the performance.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Since both you and Russian are using UK pricing in this discussion I feel I should inform both of you about this:

960 (£150) - http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=gra16_512&xf=1439_GTX+960#xf_top
970 (£245) - http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=gra16_512&xf=1439_GTX+970#xf_top
285 (£134) - http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=gra16_512&xf=1440_R9+285#xf_top
280X (£171) - http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=gra16_512&xf=1440_R9+280X#xf_top
290 (£215) - http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=gra16_512&xf=1440_R9+290#xf_top

Disclaimer - Prices and stock current at the time of this post.

Personally I wouldn't recommend the 960/285 to anyone unless that was all they could afford for the brand they wanted. That is almost entirely based on the 2GB but also the performance.
:thumbsup:
 

Leyawiin

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2008
3,196
2
91
No one in their right mind is going to pair a GTX 960, R9 280, R9 285 or R9 280X with a 4K monitor. Any professional test results using that resolution are an academic exercise to test the limits of the cards. There are some good deals on the R9 280X and if you can swing another few bucks over the price of the GTX 960 it is the go-to card at the moment. Also, if you have the CPU to back an AMD card up (i5 or i7). Anything from an i3, Pentium G3258, FX or Phenom II would probably be better served by an Nvidia card due to the lower driver overhead vs. AMD.

I've posted this from Brent Justice at [H]ardOCP before and while prices have come down on the R9 280X most of what he says in his post and his three reviews is still valid:

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041411815&postcount=4
 

Seba

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
1,339
15
91
I have a 430 Watt power supply (Seasonic S12II-430 Bronze). I am not comfortable putting a card with 250 Watt TDP (like R9 280/R9 280X).

A GTX 960 (120 Watt TDP)? No worries.

At 1920x1080 (that is what I have), performance is similar.

Also, most (if not all) R9 280/R9 280X cards won't fit in my case (Antec Solo).
 
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psolord

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2009
1,232
15
136
I am sorry, but if you are serious about PC gaming, you need power, in all its forms, even for 1080p.

You are not going anywhere with 430 Watts PSU. You are only limiting yourself.
 

Seba

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
1,339
15
91
I can use a GTX 970 (145 Watt TDP) with my power supply.

Now I have a GTX 660 (140 Watt TDP).
 

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
5,587
25
106
I am sorry, but if you are serious about PC gaming, you need power, in all its forms, even for 1080p.

You are not going anywhere with 430 Watts PSU. You are only limiting yourself.
This is one of the most ridiculous posts I've seen here recently. You have no room to dictate who is or isn't a "serious PC gamer". Either way, your opinion holds no weight.

I can use a GTX 970 (145 Watt TDP) with my power supply.

Now I have a GTX 660 (140 Watt TDP).
Don't feel the need to explain your purchases to anyone, just get whatever fits your needs.
 

psolord

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2009
1,232
15
136
Buzz off buddy and don't get an attitude with me.

I didn't say that he is not a serious PC Gamer. I said if he is serious about PC Gaming. Two different things.
 

psolord

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2009
1,232
15
136
I can use a GTX 970 (145 Watt TDP) with my power supply.

Now I have a GTX 660 (140 Watt TDP).
This is a picture from my watt meter, running BF4 at 120fps on my 4.3Ghz i5 2500k and GTX 970 G1.



Shave off around 100W when the HDDs will power down.

Don't think that performance comes at no cost.

Also don't forget that a 450W PSU does not give 450W of 12V power. There are 5V needs to be satisfied. Let alone the wear of time.

edit sorry I forgot to turn off the TV which is also connected on that power circuit so shave off another 100W.

Still at almost 400W you are pushing it thin.
 
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boozzer

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2012
1,549
0
81
I am sorry, but if you are serious about PC gaming, you need power, in all its forms, even for 1080p.

You are not going anywhere with 430 Watts PSU. You are only limiting yourself.
I honestly don't understand why anyone would buy 960 for 200$ when they can spend 40$ more for 40% more performance with the 290.

that is a super no brainer.

ps: if your gaming pc is limited by your psu, maybe you should upgrade. hell, upgrade! psus can last through builds, worth the investment of 100$ for a quality psu.
 

JDG1980

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2013
1,657
173
136
I have a 430 Watt power supply (Seasonic S12II-430 Bronze). I am not comfortable putting a card with 250 Watt TDP (like R9 280/R9 280X).

A GTX 960 (120 Watt TDP)? No worries.

At 1920x1080 (that is what I have), performance is similar.

Also, most (if not all) R9 280/R9 280X cards won't fit in my case (Antec Solo).
The Mac Pro has a 450 watt power supply. That's for a dual-GPU configuration, plus an Ivy Bridge Xeon. I'm not sure if the upgraded Mac Pro with dual Tahiti (FirePro D700) has a bigger PSU - it might - but even the low-end FirePro D300 (Pitcairn) has a rated TDP of 150W each, so 300W for the pair - considerably more than a single R9 280X.

Most enthusiasts grossly over-spec their power supplies. This is a hangover from the days when companies routinely lied about PSU specs, and you couldn't trust the wattage numbers on the box. But Seasonic is a very reputable vendor, and if their PSU says 430W, you can trust it will actually deliver that.

You might be able to exceed the 430W rating if you overclock your CPU (or use a 125W+ TDP chip like the AMD FX 8350) and if the R9 280X is also overclocked (some are from the factory). But it's not as if your PSU will blow up the moment you push it to 431 watts - there is some headroom available. Unless you're planning on running FurMark and Prime95 together 24/7, you should be fine. You might want to look into the possibility of undervolting your CPU and/or R9 280X to reduce the power draw.
 

PPB

Golden Member
Jul 5, 2013
1,118
31
106
I honestly don't understand why anyone would buy 960 for 200$ when they can spend 40$ more for 40% more performance with the 290.

that is a super no brainer.

ps: if your gaming pc is limited by your psu, maybe you should upgrade. hell, upgrade! psus can last through builds, worth the investment of 100$ for a quality psu.
Hint, not everyone lives in that hardware enthusiast's paradise that some usually call United States. The local hardware vendors in my country blatantly ignore EVERY price cut AMD has made with both 79xx and 2xx series cards. This gives 290 prices that are sometimes even HIGHER than the usual 970 cards. AMD needs to tighten the MSRP pricing policy in some countries ASAP. Its horrible down here :(
 

boozzer

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2012
1,549
0
81
Hint, not everyone lives in that hardware enthusiast's paradise that some usually call United States. The local hardware vendors in my country blatantly ignore EVERY price cut AMD has made with both 79xx and 2xx series cards. This gives 290 prices that are sometimes even HIGHER than the usual 970 cards. AMD needs to tighten the MSRP pricing policy in some countries ASAP. Its horrible down here :(
where do you live? if the price difference is that big, it might be worth it to find a vendor in the usa that delivers internationally.
 

Seba

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
1,339
15
91
Also don't forget that a 450W PSU does not give 450W of 12V power. There are 5V needs to be satisfied. Let alone the wear of time.

edit sorry I forgot to turn off the TV which is also connected on that power circuit so shave off another 100W.

Still at almost 400W you are pushing it thin.
If I go by TDP values, there is only 5 Watt difference between my GTX 660 and a GTX 970. You also have an overclocked CPU (from 3,3GHZ to 4,3GHZ, which is no little amount - with a noticeable increase in power draw). I have a i5-4440 at stock clock (obviously).

I know about the power on different rails, but you also did not measure that. You measured how much power your PC takes from the grid. And also you should apply the efficiency percentage to that.

So I am certain that I could put a GTX 970, with no problems. You are wrong on this aspect.

A R9 280/R9 280X? No way I'll put that without changing the power supply first.

I honestly don't understand why anyone would buy 960 for 200$ when they can spend 40$ more for 40% more performance with the 290.

that is a super no brainer.

ps: if your gaming pc is limited by your psu, maybe you should upgrade. hell, upgrade! psus can last through builds, worth the investment of 100$ for a quality psu.
For the cost of R9 290 and a new power supply and a new case, I can buy a GTX 970 and have money to spare (R9 290 is not that much cheaper than a GTX 970 here, anyway). Do you get it now?
 
Apr 22, 2012
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My rig below uses around 300W at peak.

Thats via 230V, and the rig only, nothing else.
 
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USER8000

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2012
1,493
3
136
Since both you and Russian are using UK pricing in this discussion I feel I should inform both of you about this:

960 (£150) - http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=gra16_512&xf=1439_GTX+960#xf_top
970 (£245) - http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=gra16_512&xf=1439_GTX+970#xf_top
285 (£134) - http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=gra16_512&xf=1440_R9+285#xf_top
280X (£171) - http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=gra16_512&xf=1440_R9+280X#xf_top
290 (£215) - http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=gra16_512&xf=1440_R9+290#xf_top

Disclaimer - Prices and stock current at the time of this post.

Personally I wouldn't recommend the 960/285 to anyone unless that was all they could afford for the brand they wanted. That is almost entirely based on the 2GB but also the performance.
Being UK based OcUK had the R9 290 for £199.99 for a while on offer AND has a load of B-Grade ones with 90 day OcUK warranty and the remainder of the manufacter one for £169.99.
Also,be careful of using skinflint - some of the prices are from drop shippers who no one has heard off.

The £150 GTX960 and the £245 GTX970 are from some random company no one has heard off and has ZERO merchant ratings.

The cheapest GTX960 I saw recently was from Novatech or CCL Computers(I can't remember which one it was) for £155 delivered which was a Zotac one.

The R9 285 for £134 is from Scan who are well known but you need to add £10 postage.

The cheap R9 280X is from Kilkatek who drop ship and are not a major retailer,but Amazon has a similarly priced R9 280X but delivered.

Plus the R9 280 cards can be had for around £140 delivered from major retailers but have dipped down to around £130 at times.

Edit!!

OcUK do have a £150 GTX960 but due to postage costs is no cheaper than better GTX960 models on sale at Amazon and othe retailers for around £160.
 
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Apr 22, 2012
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USER8000

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2012
1,493
3
136
I have a 430 Watt power supply (Seasonic S12II-430 Bronze). I am not comfortable putting a card with 250 Watt TDP (like R9 280/R9 280X).

A GTX 960 (120 Watt TDP)? No worries.

At 1920x1080 (that is what I have), performance is similar.

Also, most (if not all) R9 280/R9 280X cards won't fit in my case (Antec Solo).
Valve was running a Core i7 4770 and a Geforce Titan off a small form factor 450W PSU.

They are not sold as new - 90 days direct with the retailer and the remainder of the manufacturer warranty(but being OcUK they will probably help you anyway).

OcUK being part of Caseking which are one of the biggest computer parts retailers in Europe probably do know what the rules are.

And Alternate isnt some unknown random company. I even bought something there myself a couple of years back. You also forgot the 290 price comes from there.
Alternate are not at all known in the UK so ultimately have zero cred here so are ultimately classed as unknown. They are not based in UK like Pixmania who are based in France and are not covered by UK retail law as seen by people who bought stuff with Pixmania to save a few quid and ended up regretting it when issues started. You only look at how people know just instantly just downvote a lot of Pixmania deals on HUKD and thats a den of bargain hunters over there.

I spec a lot of builds on UK based forums,so to save a few quid to buy from some unknown company is pointless.

Looked at the R9 290 pricing - the cheapest is £222 delivered from Amazon.

GTX970 cards - Novatech have MSI GTX970 cards for £260 delivered.
 
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Apr 22, 2012
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They are not sold as new - 90 days direct with the retailer and the remainder of the manufacturer warranty(but being OcUK they will probably help you anyway).

OcUK being part of Caseking which are one of the biggest computer parts retailers in Europe probably do know what the rules are.
Irrelevant. You should read the links I provided.

Second-hand goods
Second–hand goods that you buy from a trader are also covered by the minimum two-year guarantee. However, goods bought from private individuals on a non-professional basis are not covered.
In some EU countries, in the case of second-hand goods, the buyer and seller can agree to a guarantee period of less than two years, but no shorter than one year. This should be made clear to you at the time of purchase.
And you can always RMA to the store in the EU. If they tell you to go to the manufactor themselves, then they are breaking the law.
 
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USER8000

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2012
1,493
3
136
Irrelevant. You should read the links I provided.

And you can always RMA to the store in the EU. If they tell you to go to the manufactor themselves, then they are breaking the law.
Handled through OcUK. What you don't seem to realise(as probably not having even shopped there recently) is that they usually swap out faulty stuff with one from stock and then deal with the rest of the RMA themselves.

However,with B-grade you will have to wait once the 90 days are up,however long that will be.

They even pre-empted the changes in DSR laws which gave consumers a 14 day window for returns and long before any other retailer did so.

I was not fan of OcUK for years - but certainly since Caseking bought them they have gone from strength to strength.

They were the first retailer here to offer disgruntled GTX970 owners full refunds too,on ALL models they sold even from OEMs who would not support such an action:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=27557332&postcount=5028

Even Gigabyte who put two fingers up at them so they had to make a loss on every Gigabyte GTX970 that was returned.
 
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USER8000

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2012
1,493
3
136
Anyway,if it were my money I would rather get a GTX970 than a R9 290/R9 290X for £220 to £250 since I have a SFF mini-ITX rig and thats even though personally I think in terms of raw power,VRAM,etc the R9 290/R9 290X have the edge. Its not even the power consumption which is the issue but the fact the cards are larger and longer and don't have decent blower cooler options,which was pretty much the same with the GTX780 against those cards too.

The Nvidia cards tend to be more compact which makes them just easier to fit into SFF rigs. It goes back even to Kepler.

I still regret not getting that KFA2 GTX780 for £180ish off OcUK.

Edit!!

I don't wish to have an argument with you about it ShintaiDK,but thanks anyway for the links.
 
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DeathReborn

Golden Member
Oct 11, 2005
1,994
13
91
Being UK based OcUK had the R9 290 for £199.99 for a while on offer AND has a load of B-Grade ones with 90 day OcUK warranty and the remainder of the manufacter one for £169.99.
Also,be careful of using skinflint - some of the prices are from drop shippers who no one has heard off.

The £150 GTX960 and the £245 GTX970 are from some random company no one has heard off and has ZERO merchant ratings.

The cheapest GTX960 I saw recently was from Novatech or CCL Computers(I can't remember which one it was) for £155 delivered which was a Zotac one.

The R9 285 for £134 is from Scan who are well known but you need to add £10 postage.

The cheap R9 280X is from Kilkatek who drop ship and are not a major retailer,but Amazon has a similarly priced R9 280X but delivered.

Plus the R9 280 cards can be had for around £140 delivered from major retailers but have dipped down to around £130 at times.

Edit!!

OcUK do have a £150 GTX960 but due to postage costs is no cheaper than better GTX960 models on sale at Amazon and othe retailers for around £160.
Alternate are a reputable company known amongst enthusiasts in the UK if not the general public. I use them quite often and have never had an issue on the rare occasion I have had to return something. I also didn't include P&P since nobody else did beforehand. As for the £199 290, it's been cheaper in the last few months with £170 on black friday along with at one retailer a £180 PNY 970 (I bought one).

I didn't include B-grade or second hand as that would require checking every retailer offering that option to show best price. Limiting the choices to the big few is also a bad decision. I can buy stuff through work and save 20-30% off retail but the selection sucks (nothing better than 760/7870). Skinflint is just fine for checking prices and comparing retailers.

The 960 does need to drop in price to around £130 for it to become a better value card in my opinion but still possibly the worst x60 card in a few generations.
 

shady28

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2004
2,173
0
91
<snip>
A R9 280/R9 280X? No way I'll put that without changing the power supply first.



For the cost of R9 290 and a new power supply and a new case, I can buy a GTX 970 and have money to spare (R9 290 is not that much cheaper than a GTX 970 here, anyway). Do you get it now?
Agree on the PSU, 400-500W PSUs are good for 75-150W GPUs but not the 200+W monsters power sinks AMD has. It's only if you go AMD that you need these monster PSUs and monster cases.

Anyway, the GTX 960 is starting to go below $200 if you don't mind doing the mail in rebate thing and live in the states.

$199 - $20 MIR = $179. Technically you can get another $10 off using their anniversary coupon so it can be had for $169, but that $10 is available on anything over $100.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...GvjltnJfNZVzUQ
 

Pneumothorax

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2002
1,170
0
81
This is a picture from my watt meter, running BF4 at 120fps on my 4.3Ghz i5 2500k and GTX 970 G1.



Shave off around 100W when the HDDs will power down.

Don't think that performance comes at no cost.

Also don't forget that a 450W PSU does not give 450W of 12V power. There are 5V needs to be satisfied. Let alone the wear of time.

edit sorry I forgot to turn off the TV which is also connected on that power circuit so shave off another 100W.

Still at almost 400W you are pushing it thin.
Even at 485 watts you either have some serious power draining components or a very inefficient PSU... My main rig with a EVGA P2 1000 watt PSU (which is sorta inefficient at lower loads) pulls only about 480-500 watts at the wall with both 290x running at stock speeds while gaming. IT's only if I o/c the 290x and over volt while running fur mark do I draw 600-700 watts. My son's rig which has a 290x with a 3770k only pulls around 300 watts while gaming... Your 970 should be much more efficient...
 

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