GTX 780 or R9 290 for 1080p gaming

[3DVagabond]

What case are you looking at?
The 780 comes with a usable blower, while the R290 doesn't have a cooling solution at all, currently. And it will probably require quite an elaborate open air solution, which will dump a lot of heat in the case. If you've got a case which can get rid of that heat, the 290 might be worth a go, otherwise, the 780 is the easier card to thermally integrate - it only requires a single fan giving cool intake air, and no additional side exhaust or intake, as I would prefer to have on a 290.

Of course, there are also open air 780s, which have a further advantage, at little additional cost.

Did you read the OP? He said he's looking at the 780 DCII.

I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that the 290 is going to generate all this additional heat that will require all these additional measures to deal with compared to the 780?

The 290 only uses, on average, 15W more power than the 780. Such drama!

 

[R0H1T]

GPU vs. GPU the 780/780Ti are no worse than the 290/290X, and will actually come out on top in most benches. Yet you are saying 780s are getting "destroyed"

Maybe for you but from what I've seen the 780 is at least 5% slower than the 290, at all resolutions, for 100$ more whilst the 290x is less than 5% slower than the 780Ti in uber mode for 150$ less. This is what I've seen on most review sites.

Sure, maybe in terms of value (the 290X wasn't enough to fully dethrone Titan, what was so impressive is that it was $550 vs. $1000), but please clarify that, lets not pretend that Hawaii is some sort of undisputed GK110 killer regardless of price, because right now its only in the extremely niche case of trying to push 8+M pixels where nVidia is being humbled (and its an issue that seems likely to be due to SLI/drivers and 4K being so niche)

Oh please the 290x beats the titan hands down 550$ or not doesn't really matter.

the noise is an issue, because if AMD had stayed with standard noise levels, the 290 would actually be a relatively unanimous loser to the 780, and it was better for AMD's image that they put up a strong showing rather than look weak but have good value - ie slower card is $400 vs. faster $500 card, instead its just as fast (but so much faster in CFX vs. SLI in 4K zZOMGgGG!!1!)

This thing about "noise being an issue" is really getting old because firstly there is a large variance(15~20dB) between the results of various sites & even then each person has a different perception/tolerance for noise, not to mention the case &/or gaming headsets also come into the equation at times making the noise really a non issue for some.

$400 card vs. $500 card, but the caveat is noise...basically, if Hawaii was such a killer product without its flaws, it wouldn't be priced so low.

I've said this before but lemme repeat it, say if the 290 was 10 degrees cooler & 10dB quieter would you still buy it instead of a stock 780 for 50$ more, likewise for 290x which would come in 100$ less than the 780Ti ?

the real question will be just how much will aftermarket coolers help. Right now it seems crystal clear that AMD skimped on the cooler in order to keep costs down, whereas nVidia did not. And while I do not feel nVidia's reference cooler is anywhere near the $100-150 premium that the 780-780Ti are commanding over the 290-290X, its a pretty big reason why people aren't unanimously singing praises about the 290s as some sort of unbeatable value.

A heck of a lot, there are reports of temps coming in 30 degrees lower on water & as much as 20 degrees(or more) of difference, for high end GPU coolers, while stress testing the 290/x GPU's through furmark.

at any rate, I think either the aftermarket 290s will be more expensive, or that the 780s will see another price cut in rather short order (and perhaps a bit of both)

The difference will still be 50$ between custom 290 & stock 780, obviously more for custom 780, but more importantly 100$ for custom 290x & stock 780Ti.

I've constantly seen people bring the cr@p cooler argument for the R9 series but most of'em dodge this question i.e. if they would've bought the stock 290/x had it been priced marginally higher, not surprising really if you were in the market for an Nvidia card & had AMD just as an afterthought due to their superb pricing of 290/x series!

 

[tg2708]

GPU vs. GPU the 780/780Ti are no worse than the 290/290X, and will actually come out on top in most benches. Yet you are saying 780s are getting "destroyed"

Sure, maybe in terms of value (the 290X wasn't enough to fully dethrone Titan, what was so impressive is that it was $550 vs. $1000), but please clarify that, lets not pretend that Hawaii is some sort of undisputed GK110 killer regardless of price, because right now its only in the extremely niche case of trying to push 8+M pixels where nVidia is being humbled (and its an issue that seems likely to be due to SLI/drivers and 4K being so niche)

the noise is an issue, because if AMD had stayed with standard noise levels, the 290 would actually be a relatively unanimous loser to the 780, and it was better for AMD's image that they put up a strong showing rather than look weak but have good value - ie slower card is $400 vs. faster $500 card, instead its just as fast (but so much faster in CFX vs. SLI in 4K zZOMGgGG!!1!) $400 card vs. $500 card, but the caveat is noise...basically, if Hawaii was such a killer product without its flaws, it wouldn't be priced so low.

the real question will be just how much will aftermarket coolers help. Right now it seems crystal clear that AMD skimped on the cooler in order to keep costs down, whereas nVidia did not. And while I do not feel nVidia's reference cooler is anywhere near the $100-150 premium that the 780-780Ti are commanding over the 290-290X, its a pretty big reason why people aren't unanimously singing praises about the 290s as some sort of unbeatable value.

at any rate, I think either the aftermarket 290s will be more expensive, or that the 780s will see another price cut in rather short order (and perhaps a bit of both)

Firstly re-read what I wrote and you will see I said at 4k resolutions it doubles its performance. I was never mentioned other resolutions and even then its still close with not such a huge gap in fps thus performance.

What an absurd thing to say. You are saying if something is not expensive it is not good? haha. Its like you are trying to show off on only God knows whom because you purchased a some what overpriced card and is denouncing another card with equal or greater performance just because its not nvidia. I for one could care less what anyone on here wants to buy because hey if it makes you sleep well at night go for it.

 

[Jurge92]

Guess I'll be waiting for non-reference R9 290. Can be interesting to see their cooling solutions.

 

[RaulF]

Guess I'll be waiting for non-reference R9 290. Can be interesting to see their cooling solutions.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...876&IsNodeId=1

Probably something like this.

 

[skipsneeky2]

The R9 290 in a aftermarket flavor i think will get a nod from me all day long and i am more of a nvidia person but damn $500 for a 780 is to much at this point and time as is the $700 for the 780ti. 4gb of vram and almost as good 780 or better performance @$100 cheaper depending on which reviews you want to believe should sell any soul on these forums.

 

[Jurge92]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...876&IsNodeId=1

Probably something like this.

Something like that. Shame I can't shop from Newegg, so availability is more limited.

I really like the Asus DC II cooler. Both in looks and performance. But price is the major factor in my purchase.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Any word on Non reference 290s?

Cause from what I've been hearing, no DC II until next year, haven't heard for the other coolers but why wait for a card that is going to be slower OC vs OC anyways?

Get the good price and free games if possible on the 780 and enjoy the benefit of the nvidia ecosystem as well.

 

[moonbogg]

The R9 290 in a aftermarket flavor i think will get a nod from me all day long and i am more of a nvidia person but damn $500 for a 780 is to much at this point and time as is the $700 for the 780ti. 4gb of vram and almost as good 780 or better performance @$100 cheaper depending on which reviews you want to believe should sell any soul on these forums.

Sold me. Non reference cards can't come soon enough for crying out loud. Haven't been this excited for a card in a long time. These things are really incredible at $400. Tons of Vram for dual GPU setups and powerful. Mantle might make them even more ridiculous for no additional charge.

 

[skipsneeky2]

Sold me. Non reference cards can't come soon enough for crying out loud. Haven't been this excited for a card in a long time. These things are really incredible at $400. Tons of Vram for dual GPU setups and powerful. Mantle might make them even more ridiculous for no additional charge.

I recall you being a big Battlefield fan and building around those games, a pair of 290s would do you wonders about now cause if i remember your 670s are gimping your experience not cause of fps but cause of your lack of vram. Boost your fps and your vram.

Buying myself a new card in April for my birthday and selling my 770, by then i should have many choices of R9 290 or maybe R9 290x cards to choose from and the budget will be about $450 or if a 780 drops below $400 i may go with that but that is unlikely.

 

[Slomo4shO]

Any word on Non reference 290s?

Late November for 290X, nothing I have seen for the 290s though. I am sure we will learn more during APU13 this week.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Weird they mentioned the DC II which Asus already stated they haven't even began designing and said they wouldn't release it until next year.

Wonder whats up with conflicting reports/rumors on something as trivial as aftermarket coolers?

 

[Fa11acy]

id go with the 780. Ive always had a better experience with nvidia..plus sli seems to always be better than xfire..so I'm the future when you want a second card nvidia will end up a better experience.

 

[Jurge92]

id go with the 780. Ive always had a better experience with nvidia..plus sli seems to always be better than xfire..so I'm the future when you want a second card nvidia will end up a better experience.

SLI/CFX is out of the question for me. I only want a single card which can play all new games at highest settings in 1080p 60fps.

 

[GaiaHunter]

SLI/CFX is out of the question for me. I only want a single card which can play all new games at highest settings in 1080p 60fps.

The 290 seems to be the card with more raw power, thanks to its 64 ROPs.
It also has more memory. But none of these factors matter much now at 1080.
It is also cheaper but it is a more brutish card generating a bit more noise and consuming a few more watts.
This card potentially will get more from driver optimization (the 780 had a few month of driver optimization already).

The 780 seems to have less raw power but it is a more refined card especially with a good selection of aftermarket products already out. It is also more expensive.
It has CUDA but I've no idea what kind of development/work you can do in the gamer cards. In terms of DP it has much lower DP than the Titan and it doesn't have the support/features professional cards have.

Still, I bet in a blind test with stock cards most people wouldn't distinguish one from another performance wise.

So you have to evaluate what matters more for you - raw performance, less noise, if you can get game bundles, savings, etc.

You can also try to wait a couple of weeks to see if aftermarket 290/290X products arrive in the market but if you don't have a GPU capable of playing games (or the games you want at the settings you want) now it can be difficult to wait.

 

[_Rick_]

Did you read the OP? He said he's looking at the 780 DCII.

I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that the 290 is going to generate all this additional heat that will require all these additional measures to deal with compared to the 780?

The 290 only uses, on average, 15W more power than the 780. Such drama!

HT4U measures almost 100W difference.

http://ht4u.net/reviews/2013/amd_radeon_r9_290_-_hawaii_pro_im_test/index16.php

780 is below 200W under game load, where the 290 is at 290W.
Some of that excess is due to the supremely insufficient cooling solution, and by running the GPU with an alternative cooler you can regain 20-30W. But at the moment, that costs you the warranty, and at least another 50 bucks to get a cooler.

 

[tweakboy]

Who's ?

oh

HIS


lmao

 

[hoboville]

Hi.

I've been searching for some time now, and can't seem to find the answer. I find some good prices on the GTX 780 Asus DCII here in Norway. Like $50 over stock R9 290. I play on a 1080p monitor 60hz. I could wait until the non-reference 290 coolers would be available, also able to wait for 780 Ghz edition.
Any thoughts?

I don't think there will be 780 GHz edition, but the EVGA 780 OC w/ ACX is really fast, basically as fast as a Titan. Not sure on price where you are.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your GPU targets are a bit high in terms of performance for 1080p, a bit overkill. The 780 is good for making your system ready for future titles, but it's pricey. Same goes for the 290, except it's hot and loud. OEM versions will be faster, as always, but that's not as important.

Here's what you should consider:
1. 780 comes with 3 free games, will you play or sell them? If so, more value than the 290.
2. Consider a 7970 or 280 from AMD since you're playing at 1080p a less powerful card may be better, and check out the Never Settle Forever bundle games. If you like those titles, there is more value there, and the card is cheaper.

 

[JDG1980]

Weird they mentioned the DC II which Asus already stated they haven't even began designing and said they wouldn't release it until next year.

Citation? I checked the Asus website and found no such claim. There were several pages saying that DirectCU versions of the 290/290X were coming soon, but nothing as to a specific time frame.

 

[3DVagabond]

HT4U measures almost 100W difference.

http://ht4u.net/reviews/2013/amd_radeon_r9_290_-_hawaii_pro_im_test/index16.php

780 is below 200W under game load, where the 290 is at 290W.
Some of that excess is due to the supremely insufficient cooling solution, and by running the GPU with an alternative cooler you can regain 20-30W. But at the moment, that costs you the warranty, and at least another 50 bucks to get a cooler.

I know it says gaming on the chart, but when I click the link that explains their power testing it refers to Furmark. I have to use Google Translate, so it's hard for me to track their exact measurement process. Is it Furmark, or do they use some other game? Is it a peak measurement? In this situation of talking about needing to use a better case and more fans to keep it cool compared to the 780ti (that's what I was responding to) average usage is what matters.

As far as replacing the cooler voiding your warranty, that's not usually the case. I've read replies from a number of manufacturers, and consumers, that all that is required is to reinstall the original cooler when returning it for RMA.

Yes, an aftermarket cooler costs $50 (or more). AFAIK, they're the same price for nVidia cards.

 

[Jurge92]

The 290 seems to be the card with more raw power, thanks to its 64 ROPs.
It also has more memory. But none of these factors matter much now at 1080.
It is also cheaper but it is a more brutish card generating a bit more noise and consuming a few more watts.
This card potentially will get more from driver optimization (the 780 had a few month of driver optimization already).

The 780 seems to have less raw power but it is a more refined card especially with a good selection of aftermarket products already out. It is also more expensive.
It has CUDA but I've no idea what kind of development/work you can do in the gamer cards. In terms of DP it has much lower DP than the Titan and it doesn't have the support/features professional cards have.

Still, I bet in a blind test with stock cards most people wouldn't distinguish one from another performance wise.

So you have to evaluate what matters more for you - raw performance, less noise, if you can get game bundles, savings, etc.

You can also try to wait a couple of weeks to see if aftermarket 290/290X products arrive in the market but if you don't have a GPU capable of playing games (or the games you want at the settings you want) now it can be difficult to wait.

I've been without a capable PC for about one and a half year now. Meaning the PC(laptop) I have, is for Word and Internet only. So gaming has been mostly on my PS3. Waiting is no problem.

I've been wondering if PC components will drop even further in price once the next-gen consoles launches. I can't see the PC market not being pushed to make that decision.

Considering noise, the case will be Fractal Design R4. Wouldn't that case isolate most of the noise? Also, I'm kinda used to the PS3 fan. I have the original 60GB version(the first PS3). However it doesn't bother me any. The PC will be at least two meters away from me anyway.

And I'm really used to "screaming" computers. So unless its real, real bad, noise won't be an issue.

 

[GaiaHunter]

I've been without a capable PC for about one and a half year now. Meaning the PC(laptop) I have, is for Word and Internet only. So gaming has been mostly on my PS3. Waiting is no problem.

I've been wondering if PC components will drop even further in price once the next-gen consoles launches. I can't see the PC market not being pushed to make that decision.

Considering noise, the case will be Fractal Design R4. Wouldn't that case isolate most of the noise? Also, I'm kinda used to the PS3 fan. I have the original 60GB version(the first PS3). However it doesn't bother me any. The PC will be at least two meters away from me anyway.

And I'm really used to "screaming" computers. So unless its real, real bad, noise won't be an issue.

Sure, the fractal should help some and so does the distance.
But it is hard to make absolute statements considering it is a subjective matter - Ryan of AT seems to go completely bonkers against it, while others like BrentJ from [H] say the card isn't quiet but not unbearable.

Some of the users in this board that (claim to have) bought a 290/290X seem to be fine while playing especially with headsets.

Probably you will be fine but I wont take responsibility if it is too loud for you. :sneaky:

 

[_Rick_]

I know it says gaming on the chart, but when I click the link that explains their power testing it refers to Furmark. I have to use Google Translate, so it's hard for me to track their exact measurement process. Is it Furmark, or do they use some other game? Is it a peak measurement? In this situation of talking about needing to use a better case and more fans to keep it cool compared to the 780ti (that's what I was responding to) average usage is what matters.

As far as replacing the cooler voiding your warranty, that's not usually the case. I've read replies from a number of manufacturers, and consumers, that all that is required is to reinstall the original cooler when returning it for RMA.

Yes, an aftermarket cooler costs $50 (or more). AFAIK, they're the same price for nVidia cards.

HT4U apparently didn't even get support for a sample they were sent, after they removed the cooler, to check out the problem. They bolted two aftermarket coolers on the 290, and according to their experience, you'd be extremely lucky to get warranty, once the original cooler has been removed. Some vendors might be more lenient, but others have already started putting adhesive strips over the screws, to prevent "tampering".

They use Hawx to obtain those use values. The Furmark values are not plotted, but the 290 runs into the 300W power tune limit there.
Interestingly the first sample they got with the old driver and fanspeeds topped out at below 240W, in line with the result you posted.

I'll get in touch with the editor at HT4U, to get confirmation over what timescale those values are averaged, and then I'll post the result here.

edit: I got confirmation that those are worst case maximum values - so more of a consideration when looking at PSU's than cooling. Nonetheless, depending on the game load, that can of course quickly become an average load, and I think those 20W are rather bizarre, given that the max-delta is closer to 100W. Also, of course, I don't know how TPU do their averaging...

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Citation? I checked the Asus website and found no such claim. There were several pages saying that DirectCU versions of the 290/290X were coming soon, but nothing as to a specific time frame.

OC3D.NET 780 Ti video review.

 

[Slomo4shO]

OC3D.NET 780 Ti video review.

Odd that they wouldn't detail it in their written review.... Got a link to the video you are referring to?