GTX 780 3GB or 6GB?

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OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
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Hynix <3 AT.

I remember when referencing buggy console ports and not understanding major systems of a graphics cards would get you shunned....or tarred/feathered. :/
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
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Why does everyone assume I am being sarcastic, the trend is pretty clear. I am looking at the market, at the arguments people are making for more VRAM and making a projection based on current growth.

Its simple really. At the beginning of 2014 we had ultra graphics working at 1080p on every game within 2GB (well actually mostly <1.5GB). Now that has clearly increased to 4GB now with the release of WatchDogs, so we can expect all future games to also need 4GB. But the trend is that in just 5 months VRAM usage has doubled!

Taking that to its logical conclusion I fear I may have underestimated the growth in VRAM usage, in just 5 months time we'll see another doubling and we will need 8 GB. In 1 years time it'll be 16GB. Holy moly right its just insane, when will it end? Most people don't even have that much RAM let alone graphics RAM. Its horrifying the rate of increase and its making every single GPU obsolete in a heart beat. You aren't even safe if you buy Nvidia's top end cards, even they are woefully inadequate for this increase. Do the game developers not realise we can't buy cards to run these games?! Presumably they think we'll buy anything, even if no one can play it.

WatchDogs is clearly the defacto standard for the industry and we'll all need 16GB VRAM cards by this time next year, Nvidia and AMD have a lot to do between now and then. Worse still we'll all need workstation class cards by the end of the year so the mainstream 8GB cards better hurry up.
 
Feb 15, 2014
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It might work okay now, but then in a few more months who knows what's going to happen?
Consider this:
AMD's flagship cards are 4GB
Consoles are 8Gb
Nvidia's upcoming flagships >=4GB

Devs are gonna be less careful about conserving VRAM now. Better to buy the 6GB card.
Watch Dogs might be patched, but then the situation isint going to change, upcoming games will soon all need >3GB.

Also, the 780 is a pretty capable GPU. Why risk it being bottlenecked in some game because it's falling short of VRAM?
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
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If you're going to spend upwards of $500 on a top end card today then I think you want to take the safest route to ensure todays and future games wont run out of VRAM. If you upgrade a lot it's less of a concern, if you don't upgrade that much then this is a bigger reason to go 6gb..

Completely different situation if you're plunking down a lot less cash <$300, where 3gb is more than fitting, but settling for 3gb's at the upper high end doesn't make sense to me given current trends of VRAM requirements and usage.


With all that, 3gb is more than likely going to be enough at 1080P. But at $500 range i'd reccomend 6gb card if it's $50 upgrade from 3gb. Maybe you want to upgrade down the road to 1440p, 1600p, mult screen, multi gpu. The 6gb leaves a lot more on the table for you vs the 3gb card.
 
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Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
5,014
1,614
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watchdogs and wolfenstein

I think he can go with either.

But I don't believe in all this vram up roar over 2 games.

Watch dogs needs patching and has issues and frankly I think its a bad example to use for a purchasing decision.

So with that one off the table it leaves one game and that woudn't be enough for me.

I think by the end of this year we will have a better idea of the vram requirements with more games to test with but that is just me.


It might work okay now, but then in a few more months who knows what's going to happen?
Consider this:
AMD's flagship cards are 4GB
Consoles are 8Gb
Nvidia's upcoming flagships >=4GB

Devs are gonna be less careful about conserving VRAM now. Better to buy the 6GB card.
Watch Dogs might be patched, but then the situation isint going to change, upcoming games will soon all need >3GB.

Also, the 780 is a pretty capable GPU. Why risk it being bottlenecked in some game because it's falling short of VRAM?

Consoles do not have 8GB of useable space for the GPU people need to make this correction when posting that.

The Xbone only has 5GB of useable space after the OS has taken its share. And I believe the number is similar for the PS4.
 
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lehtv

Elite Member
Dec 8, 2010
11,897
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As a rule of thumb, any game that you can push to use more than 3GB VRAM on 1080p will not have a playable framerate on a single high end GPU. Of course, playable is subjective, to me it's locked to 60 fps, allowing for occasional drops to 50 fps, CPU limiting notwithstanding.

If you were going to play games maxed out on 1080p with the intention of using high levels of MSAA and maintaining 60 fps (or better, if 120hz), then GTX 780 6GB SLI would be absolutely fine in my book, provided you want NVIDIA for some reason. R9 290 4GB Crossfire would do the job as well for less $.
 
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Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
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i dont even see a need to play at 1080p; 1600x900 is good enough for me considering that i can do a 75hz signal while staying within my monitor's normal clock speed
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
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Hmm it appears my sarcasm has not allowed those arguing for 6GB to see the fallacy of their arguments. I give up its all a waste of time and money.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
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It might work okay now, but then in a few more months who knows what's going to happen?
Consider this:
AMD's flagship cards are 4GB
Consoles are 8Gb
Nvidia's upcoming flagships >=4GB

Devs are gonna be less careful about conserving VRAM now. Better to buy the 6GB card.
Watch Dogs might be patched, but then the situation isint going to change, upcoming games will soon all need >3GB.

Also, the 780 is a pretty capable GPU. Why risk it being bottlenecked in some game because it's falling short of VRAM?

I really hope you don't believe any of those statistics.
 

PC_gamer5150

Member
May 30, 2014
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Hmm it appears my sarcasm has not allowed those arguing for 6GB to see the fallacy of their arguments. I give up its all a waste of time and money.

I was reading that if you have a 780 with 6G's of vram that
the bandwidth will not be enough for you take take full advantage of all 6g's?
in other words 6'g on this card is totally useless due to it's build architecture?
that amount of vram will bottle neck with the card itself?
 
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Apocalypto

Member
Jun 2, 2014
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Guys Thanks for all your comments and suggestions, but I was confused now I am very very very confused lol. I never said I was going to have EVGA gTx 780 6GB in SLI, just one card.

Some of you were right, that in some time games depends more on VRAM...

The problem is that I cannot find any EVGA with 6GB, everywhere is out of stock. Could anyone tell me where to find it please, that ships to Europe?

Thanks for all of you guys, keep posting please until I decide :p
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
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I was reading that if you have a 780 with 6G's of vram that
the bandwidth will not be enough for you take take full advantage of all 6g's?
in other words 6'g on this card is totally useless due to it's build architecture?
that amount of vram will bottle neck with the card itself?
architecture is basically irrelevant when you are using higher res textures. There is nothing about the 780 that keeps it from using more than 3gb of vram if it needs it.

Again all this debate is silly when talking about hardly anymore money overall especially when we have 2 games right now that can push 3gb to the limit.
 

PC_gamer5150

Member
May 30, 2014
100
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architecture is basically irrelevant when you are using higher res textures. There is nothing about the 780 that keeps it from using more than 3gb of vram if it needs it.

Again all this debate is silly when talking about hardly anymore money overall especially when we have 2 games right now that can push 3gb to the limit.

when i said this same basic thing elsewhere i got flamed for it?
I agree that for $40 more the extra 3g's is a great deal.
but try telling that to those that say you will never need 6g's at 1080 with a single monitor;)
 

Apocalypto

Member
Jun 2, 2014
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So it is useless to have 6gb on 1920 x 1080? the system will not use more than 3gb? even if it has a 6Gb of VRAM

when i said this same basic thing elsewhere i got flamed for it?
I agree that for $40 more the extra 3g's is a great deal.
but try telling that to those that say you will never need 6g's at 1080 with a single monitor;)
 

PC_gamer5150

Member
May 30, 2014
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So it is useless to have 6gb on 1920 x 1080? the system will not use more than 3gb? even if it has a 6Gb of VRAM
some say it is and some so no?

trust me i feel for you cause i am in the same boat except i ALREADY ordered my 780 3g so i would like to know for sure as well.
I say if you are buying a 780 get the extra vram no matter what, i wish i would have!:'(
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
So it is useless to have 6gb on 1920 x 1080? the system will not use more than 3gb? even if it has a 6Gb of VRAM

The general understanding of VRAM and how it is allocated vs. how it is actually used, leaves much to be desired on tech forums.

Sprinkle in 3 recent console ports that cannot properly manage > 2GB of VRAM on Ultra textures, causing memory leakage that will suddenly suck up Titan's resources for little to no IQ gain....and you have the perfect storm.
 

Apocalypto

Member
Jun 2, 2014
94
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So you don't recommend the 3GB version? I feel like when I had the 9800GTX 512MB and then all of a sudden appeared Crysis with 768MB, and could not make it to high settings etc...


some say it is and some so no?

trust me i feel for you cause i am in the same boat except i ALREADY ordered my 780 3g so i would like to know for sure as well.
I say if you are buying a 780 get the extra vram no matter what, i wish i would have!:'(
 

TeknoBug

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2013
2,084
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Sadly there are still 512MB cards being produced.

I think we went a long time on just 1GB of VRAM (2007-2012?) and now the 2GB timeframe has been rather short since new games has been creeping into the 3GB and higher range, even Battlefield 4. Funny that Guild Wars 2 with max settings and superspample still barely cracks 600MB VRAM.
 

PC_gamer5150

Member
May 30, 2014
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I cannot find anywhere to buy it from...

they are all sold out like i said on the other thread;)
I just went through EXACTLY what you are going through 4 days ago
My advice to you is to be more patient than i was.
i wouldn't wait so now i have a 3g gtx780 ftw.
I am having regrets on losing out on the extra vram for $40 more
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
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My main problem with the extra vram is that its bad value for money. Its $10 worth of parts sold at big markup.

My perspective on this debate is as a programmer of several decades. The way software is written is it's designed and tested on hardware that can be bought or will be available when your program is released. If the hardware can't run it you can't test it. Now typically no software is targeted at hardware very small number of people have. So what as a developer I do is choose what my example low, medium, high and ultra levels are and take the lowest common denominators at those levels of all vendors hardware. You see that in the recommended specs where it says "i5 or equivalent". So any sensible developer would look at the current GPUs and expect 3GB in ultra end for vram, nvidia levels of compute and AMD levels of tessellation. Basically you have to select the lowest capabilities of the the main cards in a category.

This year we have had 3 games, none of them particularly amazing graphics wise, use 3GB of vram, and obviously many more that didn't. That isn't unreasonable because that is where the ultra market is in terms of capabilities. More than that is only AMD, the minority hardware provider.

But if we project out into the future the ultra settings will use more vram, most likely 6GB. But they will also want 2x the compute performance and tessellation perforomance to go out with it. Historically what this has meant is very low volume extra vram cards have rarely had even one game they ran that the lower vram ones didn't. But right now we have 3 games that break that rule.

I don't really know what it all means but I highly doubt they will go above 3GB as there are just too few cards to pay for the feature to be worth it. It would be unbalanced compared to today's hardware. But these three games are unbalanced with 1 setting for textures.

My theory as to why is that these are console ports, and not very good ones. The problem is most likely the developers were developing on PCs with dual 680s and 7970 hardware or maybe even 780s and were expecting that level of performance from the consoles. They then found out they were mid range GPUs but with gobs of vram and in order to keep visuality fidelity up they pushed more towards textures and polygon counts to make the game sharp. They still struggled with resolution but it looked better than just pairing back performance to make it fit. The problem of course is all the GPUs in the PC space are based on 2 year old architectures and are awaiting the new silicon process at which point their available vram will exceed what the console can actually use (which is most likely 4GB Max).

So to your 3GB v 6GB it really depends on whether you believe most developers will target console first and making the PC port unbalanced in hardware, or maybe you think they will target the 290s mostly ignoring nvidia for high end despite sales being 2 to 1 in favour of nvidia or maybe you buy into developers being lazy argument. I personally always view it as the software has to match existing hardware or it can't sell and these 3 games should be outliers. Buy the 6GB, most likely it will end up a waste of money just like in the past, but if you don't intend to buy the next gen of cards maybe it will payoff. You are being ripped off, the price of it remains my main concern with it, that and it's historically poor value. But we have 3 examples of games pushing up there.
 
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PC_gamer5150

Member
May 30, 2014
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Brightcandle,Great post! thanks for the info:cool:
I have two choices,
1. keep what i have(gtx 780ftw 3g) and just pray i wont have to get a 800 a few months from now
2.step up to a 6g for $40-60 more and still hope that i will be able to max most newer titles
from your above post it seems like there really is no definitely answer
except overall the cost out weighs the gain
 
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SimsReaper

Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Apocalypto, sorry man, it appears you thread was kind of hijacked into a separate argument. I think PC_Gamer5150 stated it best, be patient. The 6Gb cards have just very recently been released, so it may take some time for them to really become stock items. Give it a couple weeks if you can.

To be perfectly honest, 3 Gb is going to be enough for 95% of the games you will play for a few years, but yes, you MAY have to lower your AA settings (not to off, but just not to MAX EVERYTHING). And sometimes newly released games will not be the most optimized products at the very beginning.

Personally, I would buy the 6 GB version, just in case you did want to upgrade your monitor later. But again, just my personal opinion.

Hope this helps you a bit, and good luck with whatever you decide.
 

PC_gamer5150

Member
May 30, 2014
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yeah i apologize for going off track and agree with Simsreaper
wait and get 6g's to be safe
now that the demand has risen for 6g's they will have them in stock soon