GTX 470 SLI or 5970?

[Lonyo]

What do you mean 3D surround doesn't exist yet?
And I'm not sure if I have said that 470 has as good of minimums as a 480. Did I?
Show me if I did.

I mean 3D Surround doesn't exist yet.
It comes with the 256 drivers, according to the NV website.
Do you see the 256 drivers anywhere? Please, if you get them early as a focus group member, feel free to leak them.

GF100 series seems to have a bit more "staying power" when things get really cranked up. That is generally what I have found in my own testing. Maintain better minimum framerates especially when all the candy is turned on.

GTX470 and GTX480 = GF100 series, I would assume.
If you had meant that only the GTX480 only had better minimums, I am sure you would have broken down the cards rather than grouped them as a family, right?

 

[Grooveriding]

I'm glad you GET that I GET GPU's from Nvidia. But for some reason, that definitely is not the point I was trying to make. Just repeatedly mentioning I get GPU's from NV does not change a single word I have said.

If I sang out and shouted, "I get GPUs from Nvidia!!!!" Then I can see where your post would have a place in our conversation. But I have not.

You think I'm saying all these things because I get GPUs from Nvidia. Not because they are facts. Why? What am I saying that isn't true here? If you find something innaccurate, please let me know. I'm more than willing to admit when I make mistakes. But don't get petty and claim my posts BS because I get GPUs from NV. That in itself would have merit if you could disprove anything I say. Until then, go be petty somewhere else.

As far as the 470 and 480s being a letdown? 10-15% more performance is roughly what we would be seeing with an ATI refresh right NOW. The cards are where they are supposed to be.

And as tired as you are of me posting facts, I'm equally tired of you calling my facts marketing. There isn't a single inaccuracy. I have even pointed out repeatedly the cons of the GF100's. All you see is my sig. The rest of my posts might as well be blah blah blah to you. What a waste.

I've never posted about you being a recipient of free hardware from nvidia before. The video forum is my favorite one to read here, and I noticed you've been posting incessantly about the greatness of the mighty Fermi cards in numerous threads. I felt it was necessary to point out that your opinion is inherently biased because you get expensive free hardware from nvidia.

Now no one can say for certain, but I'd be willing to bet if you too were pointing out that considering how much extra time nvidia had to release their new series and the relatively small performance increase it offered over the already existing 5XXX series, it's not that impressive. As well as cards that run super hot, cards that when not in a multi-gpu config cannot compete performance wise with similarly priced solutions from ATI. Gimmicky features that still have little to no relevance years later. Etc.

Well, I'll bet the gravy ladle would find it's self empty.

Readers of the forum would be better served reading AT's own review of Fermi or other tech sites. Places that get free hardware for review from both companies.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Now no one can say for certain, but I'd be willing to bet if you too were pointing out that considering how much extra time nvidia had to release their new series and the relatively small performance increase it offered over the already existing 5XXX series, it's not that impressive.

For anyone shopping now, what difference does it make when the part was released? There is a time when enthusiast interest stops and consumer interest starts. For me, when I'm buying something- when it came out is of very little concern unless it is a car. If I walk into a store today and buy both a 5970 and/or a 470SLI solution, do you think it matters one bit when either part was released? Sure, if I was buying six months ago that would have obviously been a factor, but as a consumer buying today it has to be one of the most moronic arguments you could possibly make in terms of the strengths/weaknesses of a part. Intel could come out with i8 processors six months ahead of schedule, that would mean absolutely nothing if they lost to AMD in the metric most important to a consumer at the time they make their purchase nor should it.

As well as cards that run super hot, cards that when not in a multi-gpu config cannot compete performance wise with similarly priced solutions from ATI.

The 470 is closer to the 5870 in performance then the 5850, and the 470 is cheaper then the 5870. In my reality, that would be competition. As far as heat concerns, he's talking about a 5970, not a 5750. It isn't like that is a particularly cool running card either.

Readers of the forum would be better served reading AT's own review of Fermi or other tech sites.

Every review I've seen of the 5970 vs 470SLI setup has the 470s walking away with a fairly easy victory overall. If we were talking 5850s in SLI, it gets to be a lot tougher call as their significant price advantage starts to come into play. In terms of the 5970 vs 470SLI it really doesn't seem all that close to me honestly, at ~$700 for either setup it seems like the 470SLI setup wins that contest hands down.

 

[jbh545]

I noted specifically in my post I was referring to a large scale circumstance and then you augment your argument against my point claiming less than 1% of 480's are on ebay. Well.... good job, you've created something fictional to argue against and made it appear I'm standing behind your fictional assertion. Of course if less than 1% are on ebay it's not a big deal.

Again, tell me what law would make this illegal (reminder: graphics cards are not securities and do not fall under SEC jurisdiction) and also support your assertion that "artificially" high prices have been created by the current behavior. Face it commie, you made an argument based in emotion rather than fact, got rolled, and are now trying to retcon and back away from your initial claims to save some tiny amount of face.

 

[Keysplayr]

I mean 3D Surround doesn't exist yet.
It comes with the 256 drivers, according to the NV website.
Do you see the 256 drivers anywhere? Please, if you get them early as a focus group member, feel free to leak them.



GTX470 and GTX480 = GF100 series, I would assume.
If you had meant that only the GTX480 only had better minimums, I am sure you would have broken down the cards rather than grouped them as a family, right?

Give me a break Lonyo, that's what you're going to go with? If they come out tomorrow, shall we have this conversation again? Or the next day?
http://www.nvidia.com/object/3D_Vision_Surround_Technology.html
According to this link, 3DVision surround 256 drivers are due April 2010.
Last time I checked, it's April. And unless there are any complications (and it can happen), those drivers are due out within the next 10 days. Are you really gonna go with this? A technicality that most likely won't be there by the time someone orders a card and it's shipped to them?
And lastly, these drivers for the GF100 series are beta. Immature. Just look at the Conclusion page of the Hardware Canucks review. Read the whole page, it isn't long.
But then again, I'm not sure if it was you or someone else who stated that drivers seldom improve performance but more focused on correcting bugs.
AMD's drivers are quite mature by now.

 

[Keysplayr]

Again, tell me what law would make this illegal (reminder: graphics cards are not securities and do not fall under SEC jurisdiction) and also support your assertion that "artificially" high prices have been created by the current behavior. Face it commie, you made an argument based in emotion rather than fact, got rolled, and are now trying to retcon and back away from your initial claims to save some tiny amount of face.

First actual personal attack in this thread. Congratulation jbh545. Just couldn't keep it heated, but still civil.

 

[SirPauly]

No idea where you get "GTX 470 SLI is as fast as the 5870 CF," it's not, and at $350 you're getting disproportionately less than $30 worth of performance.
And? We're only allowed to save money in certain ways now? What kind of fanboy argument is that?

Evaluation

The performance of two cards is undeniably impressive in SLI. Look at the 1,920x1,200 numbers and we see that the aggregate results increase by 63.8 per cent. At 2,560x1,600 the scaling hits 75 per cent. Coincidentally enough, the aggregate results are very similar to two Radeon HD 5870s, and, given that they're identical in price, this is why the HEXUS.bang4bucks are also similar.

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=24263&page=14

 

[MrK6]

Spin 1: Turn down the fanclub nonsense. Defamation of charecter. Check.

Sorry, nice try, there's no defamation of character there. You don't get to say whatever the hell you want then hide behind that anytime someone calls you on it.

Spin 2: Lets talk about single card performance when SLI is the topic of the day in this thread.

You go right ahead. Considering your SLI argument doesn't hold water, you can try this from any angle and I'll shoot it down.

Spin 3: Hardware Canuks clearly shows the 470SLI continually beating 5850Xfire, 5970, and come awful close to 5870 and often exceeding it, but you don't see that.

Once again, you didn't read the review, thanks for not even bothering. Out of ~36 different tests over five games, 5850 CF came out ahead 14 times, GTX 470 SLI came out ahead 22 times, all for $150-200 more. And most wins were less than 5% in either case, again, all for a difference of $150-200.

Spin 4: Saying there is a 30 dollar difference when there actually is twice that at minimum and only if you can get the cards for 380 each.

$30 difference per card, that's not difficult math.

Spin and spin and spin. Who do you think you are kidding here?

So far I've shut down your argument, where's your rebuttal or proof? Oh right, it's laughable, never mind. "Hey guys, you should spend $150-200 more on GTX470 SLI because ummm... it's faster than... wait no... it's quieter than... wait no... it uses less power than... damn that isn't it... oh YEAH it's from NVIDIA!"

 

[Keysplayr]

Sorry, nice try, there's no defamation of character there. You don't get to say whatever the hell you want then hide behind that anytime someone calls you on it.
You go right ahead. Considering your SLI argument doesn't hold water, you can try this from any angle and I'll shoot it down.
Once again, you didn't read the review, thanks for not even bothering. Out of ~36 different tests over five games, 5850 CF came out ahead 14 times, GTX 470 SLI came out ahead 22 times, all for $150-200 more. And most wins were less than 5% in either case, again, all for a difference of $150-200.
$30 difference per card, that's not difficult math.
So far I've shut down your argument, where's your rebuttal or proof? Oh right, it's laughable, never mind. "Hey guys, you should spend $150-200 more on GTX470 SLI because ummm... it's faster than... wait no... it's quieter than... wait no... it uses less power than... damn that isn't it... oh YEAH it's from NVIDIA!"

It's on. I'm going to ask you to do something you absolutely do not want to do.
List the pros and cons (ALL of them) between 470SLI and 5970. And not just what you think is an important feature or not. ALL of them.

Then we can progress the argument to 5850 Crossfire AFTER.

You game? We'll see who finds it easier to shoot the other down.

 

[Skurge]

Is the OP still even reading this thread?

 

[Lonyo]

Is the OP still even reading this thread?

Nah, he already bought a GTX480.

 

[Keysplayr]

Is the OP still even reading this thread?

Nah, he bought a GTX480.

 

[Lonyo]

Nah, he bought a GTX480.

Ha! I beat you to it and even typed one more word in my response.
(Also it might be time to close this thread)

 

[Skurge]

So I guess this thread is about 5850 xFire vs 470 SLI?

 

[SirPauly]

Once again, you didn't read the review, thanks for not even bothering. Out of ~36 different tests over five games, 5850 CF came out ahead 14 times, GTX 470 SLI came out ahead 22 times, all for $150-200 more. And most wins were less than 5% in either case, again, all for a difference of $150-200.
$30 difference per card, that's not difficult math.

Let's discuss AA filters. Notice this is rarely discussed -- if one included CFAA and CSAA filters in to the arena -- how many benchmarks would be won? You enjoy 5850's -- can you be kind enough to share for the community what the performance is in a multitude of titles?

 

[Skurge]

Let's discuss AA filters. Notice this is rarely discussed -- if one included CFAA and CSAA filters in to the arena -- how many benchmarks would be won? You enjoy 5850's -- can you be kind enough to share for the community what the performance is in a multitude of titles?

I can't comment on the newer cards (since I haven't tried it on my brother 5770), but usually CFAA cuts my framrates almost in half. I only use it for source engine games.

 

[Grooveriding]

For anyone shopping now, what difference does it make when the part was released? There is a time when enthusiast interest stops and consumer interest starts. For me, when I'm buying something- when it came out is of very little concern unless it is a car. If I walk into a store today and buy both a 5970 and/or a 470SLI solution, do you think it matters one bit when either part was released? Sure, if I was buying six months ago that would have obviously been a factor, but as a consumer buying today it has to be one of the most moronic arguments you could possibly make in terms of the strengths/weaknesses of a part. Intel could come out with i8 processors six months ahead of schedule, that would mean absolutely nothing if they lost to AMD in the metric most important to a consumer at the time they make their purchase nor should it.

It's a perfectly valid argument. I bought my two 5870s in September, cost me $900. I've been using them for the past six months. I'm an enthusiast and I buy high end parts close to their release date.

I've gotten six months out of these cards, if I'd been suckered into waiting for nvidia, I would of gone without these cards for six months and paid $780 for 470 SLI and less performance or $1100 for 480 SLI and 15% more performance. Sounds like a raw deal to me. I also have about a six month wait from today for ATI's new cards which will almost certainly be faster than anything nvidia has out and will end up providing me with a full year of use out of my 5870s, offering what basically amounted to the best performance available for that year for my $900.

The 470 is closer to the 5870 in performance then the 5850, and the 470 is cheaper then the 5870. In my reality, that would be competition. As far as heat concerns, he's talking about a 5970, not a 5750. It isn't like that is a particularly cool running card either.

I'm not going to argue where these solutions land performance wise with you, it's 'moronic' not to look at a wide spectrum of reviews and see that 5870 CF is faster than 470 SLI and 5850 beats a 470 about as many times as a 470 beats a 5850, putting them on par, it's much the same situation as GTX 260 vs 4870 was.

Of course it can be preferable to keep parroting one review site's results again and again because they differ from the majority.

By your own argument, the 5870 is competition to the 480 the same way you say the 470 is to the 5870, of course the 5870 is $100 cheaper than a 480, vs a $50 savings on the 470 to the 5870. And the 5850 is $50 cheaper than the 470 and is its equal when averaging out benchmarks.

The GTX 470/480 are totally underwhelming cards due to their release point, the 470 offering nothing more performance wise as a single card, the 480 offering very little more performance wise as a single card and that we can expect a big performance jump from ATI cards close to the end of the year.

I like to upgrade my rig, but I don't get free hardware. I don't mind spending $1000 to get close to double the performance I got over my 285 SLI setup. But I'm not now going to spend another $1000 six months later for 15% more, when I can wait another 6 months and spend $1000 for close to double the performance again when the 6XXX series comes out.

Nvidia needs to catch up, right now they're six months behind.

 

[BFG10K]

Let's discuss AA filters. Notice this is rarely discussed -- if one included CFAA and CSAA filters in to the arena -- how many benchmarks would be won?

The workload of CFAA is not comparable to that of CSAA, hence neither is their performance.

 

[SirPauly]

The objective was to improve edge quality while minimizing the memory footprints and very comparable.

 

[SgtSpoon]

(Also it might be time to close this thread)

But ... i just got a fresh bag of popcorn ...

 

[MrK6]

It's on. I'm going to ask you to do something you absolutely do not want to do.
List the pros and cons (ALL of them) between 470SLI and 5970. And not just what you think is an important feature or not. ALL of them.

Then we can progress the argument to 5850 Crossfire AFTER.

You game? We'll see who finds it easier to shoot the other down.

How about you do it, since it's so important to you? You're right, I don't want to waste my time compiling a list of all the points made in this thread because, surprise, I have a life (a very busy one at that, notice the label "Medical student" in my profile). Honestly, you can't even make a decent counter to my argument, so now I have to make it and rebut it? Give me a break.

Let's discuss AA filters. Notice this is rarely discussed -- if one included CFAA and CSAA filters in to the arena -- how many benchmarks would be won? You enjoy 5850's -- can you be kind enough to share for the community what the performance is in a multitude of titles?

What's the point? 8xAA and 16xAA makes the point moot. There's no discernible difference, just set AA in-game.

 

[SirPauly]

Then why bother to offer the feature? Just offer traditional multi-sampling AA. But, the reason was, titles at times take advantage of memory - specifically with AA -- these features minimize the memory footprint. It's also a way of offering more AA on polygon edges by enhancing application. What if the developer only offers x4 AA for their games; wouldn't an AA filter help? What if one needs to force AA through the control panel for a title that doesn't offer application AA; and the AA is a bigger hit than usual -- x4 with a filter may be less of a hit than x8 traditional multi-sampling? What if your frame-rate is impressive and desire to add more edge quality than x8 AA?

All I am saying, is these features make up the products ATI and nVidia offer and should be discussed and investigated for the gamer. nVidia has a very efficient CSAA feature and at least should be noted instead of what's the point?

 

[Lonyo]

How about you do it, since it's so important to you? You're right, I don't want to waste my time compiling a list of all the points made in this thread because, surprise, I have a life (a very busy one at that, notice the label "Medical student" in my profile). Honestly, you can't even make a decent counter to my argument, so now I have to make it and rebut it? Give me a break.
What's the point? 8xAA and 16xAA makes the point moot. There's no discernible difference, just set AA in-game.

We could discuss the absolute crap known as NV pricing outside the US?

 

[Seero]

How about you do it, since it's so important to you? You're right, I don't want to waste my time compiling a list of all the points made in this thread because, surprise, I have a life (a very busy one at that, notice the label "Medical student" in my profile). Honestly, you can't even make a decent counter to my argument, so now I have to make it and rebut it? Give me a break.

Check his first post in this thread.

BTW gratz on school life.

 

[Madcatatlas]

I have no clue about csaa etc etc, but i do know the IQ of both companies is pretty much equal and its hard to tell them apart from looking at screenshots, and i gather in most game situations aswell.

In other words, give me performance and stuff that actually makes gaming different than other stuff you do on your computer or stuff you could do on your ps3/xbox360 whatever, yes physx, im looking at you.

Give me multimonitor gaming performance at an ok price without turning my office into a sauna..yes i did just list the current negatives and positives in advantage of Ati cards. You read correctly.

edit: @ SirPauly