GTX 285 Early Details

[chizow]

GTX 285 Early Details @ Expreview

We have looked into 55nm GeForce GTX260 VGA Card, now let?s turn to 55nm GTX280. It features brand-new PCB design and enhanced default frequency. Besides, it?s been given a new brand ? GeForce GTX285.

Adopting P891 as reference design, GeForce GTX285 remains 10.5? length just as GTX280. And its cooler is dual-slot designed with dual DVI and S-Video output. The graphic memory carries on 1GB GDDR3, and its stream processors is 240. The frequency of GeForce GTX285 remains to be confirmed, but its performance can get up to 110% of GTX280.

We can regard GeForce GTX285 as GTX280 Overclocking Edition with less power consumption. GeForce GTX280?s Maximum Graphics Card Power is 236W, and it requires a 6-pin and a 8-pin PEG Power Connectors. However, GeForce GTX285?s power consumption has been reduced to 183W with only 2 6-pin PEG power connectors needed.

GeForce GTX285 with highest clock and lowest power consumption is undoubtedly the most powerful card in single-GPU cards, while new GeForce GTX260 arouses the most attention in middle and high-end cards? price war. Dual-GPU GeForce GTX295 is expected to regain the crown of performance. All of these will happen in January 2009.

After unveiling details of NVIDIA new-line products, we will follow some news about AMD?s plan to fight back, such as RV775XT. (Special thanks to one of our readers who provides information)

Most interesting parts highlighted, the reduction in power consumption is pretty amazing though! It will be very interesting to see how high these 55nm parts can overclock given they take less power, run cooler and are on a smaller process. I'm mainly interested in seeing if the core can reach similar SP ratios as G92/G92b given thats one of the few areas GT200 seemed deficient compared to its predecessors. With clockspeeds like 850/2000/1200 I'm quite sure GTX 285 will perform like an entirely different beast.

 

[ghost recon88]

The frequency of GeForce GTX285 remains to be confirmed, but its performance can get up to 110% of GTX280.

So its 10% faster then a GTX280?

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: ghost recon88

The frequency of GeForce GTX285 remains to be confirmed, but its performance can get up to 110% of GTX280.

So its 10% faster then a GTX280?

I'd expect that to mean at stock, so 660/1400/1200 clocks maybe which is around 10% faster and similar to overclocked versions. Considering most GTX 280 overclocks surpass that now coupled with lots of OC'ing headroom historically with NV parts, it could go much higher with the die shrink.

 

[dguy6789]

Very cool. I read somewhere that there was only going to be a 55nm GTX260 and then the GTX295(2x 260). Pretty cool that they are making a faster 280 also.

 

[ArchAngel777]

My guess is that they will increase the ratio of core:shader in addition to clocking the core higher. Just a wild guess, but I'd say that Chizow numbers are close, but I would expect shader to be around 1500. If they are anything like their 65nm brethern, they should hit 800 core without a problem. The issue for me is, this is still only marginally faster than their 65nm part. So, I don't think this warrants 'waiting' for them to come out as I highly doubt you are going to see this sub $400 like 280's currently. The power difference under load is 40 watts, which is a lot, but unless you are gaming all day, all night, you probably won't notice much, if any reduction on your power bill.

So, now the gamble... Do I purchase a 65nm 280 for $315, or wait for the 55nm and risk these shooting back up in the mid $400s or skip this refresh entirely, because it appears to be a placeholder until nVidia can release a new arch... I always make the wrong decision too! Bummer...

 

[Hauk]

So according to rumors thus far, we'll see a GTX 285 (55nm 240sp), and a GTX 295 (dual 55nm 240sp).

If the GTX 285 is meant to replace a 280, it should be around $400 bucks right? If the GTX 295 is meant to compete with x2 it should be around $500 bucks right?

If yes to both then here's the real question, why would anyone buy two GTX 285's to SLI when they could get a GTX 295 (x2 240sp) for a hundred or so more? I can't see the memory solution of GTX 285 SLI being worth $300 bucks more than the sandwich card.

Either my pricing scenario is off nearly a hundred bucks either way, or the specs we've seen thus far are incorrect. I'm skeptical of the shader count on the dual card. Something doesn't make sense..

 

[ghost recon88]

Originally posted by: SteelSix
So according to rumors thus far, we'll see a GTX 285 (55nm 240sp), and a GTX 295 (dual 55nm 240sp).

If the GTX 285 is meant to replace a 280, it should be around $400 bucks right? If the GTX 295 is meant to compete with x2 it should be around $500 bucks right?

If yes to both then here's the real question, why would anyone buy two GTX 285's to SLI when they could get a GTX 295 (x2 240sp) for a hundred or so more? I can't see the memory solution of GTX 285 SLI being worth $300 bucks more than the sandwich card.

Either my pricing scenario is off nearly a hundred bucks either way, or the specs we've seen thus far are incorrect. I'm skeptical of the shader count on the dual card. Something doesn't make sense..

If the GTX295 really is GTX285x2, then it will NOT cost $500. Think more along the lines of $600-700.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: chizow
Considering most GTX 280 overclocks surpass that now coupled with lots of OC'ing headroom historically with NV parts, it could go much higher with the die shrink.

Heat might be an issue though with this type of card so OCing may not be that easy.

 

[chizow]

Yep pricing will definitely be interesting with the upcoming parts.

What you'll have is:

GTX 260 c216 - 28 ROP/72 TMU/216 SP/448bit bus/896MB VRAM

GTX 285 - 32 ROP/80 TMU/240 SP/512bit bus/1024MB VRAM

GTX 295 (1 core) - 28 ROP?/80TMU/240SP/448bit bus/896MB VRAM

So while the GTX 295 will be somewhere inbetween the 260 SLI and 285 SLI in terms of transistors and specs, it will give some of that back in terms of thermals, cooling, power draw and overclockability.

Pricing will certainly play a role but considering the 55nm parts will be cheaper across the board I wouldn't be shocked if NV pulled a bit of a surprise similar to the 9800GTX and priced it in the $330-$350 range, which would push existing GTX 280 stock into the $250-300 range until EOL. This would sit the 280 nicely between the GTX 260 at $230-250 and GTX 285 at $330-350 and still make the GTX 295 an attractive option at $500. Of course this is all speculation based on the assumption GT200 cores don't cost $200 each.

But ya the 295 would certainly be interesting since it doesn't carry some of the negatives of its predecessor, the 9800GX2, in terms of 256-bit bus and 512MB per GPU, which were both significant downgrades from the 8800GTX. The only major negatives I can see compared to single cards SLI would be thermals and overclockability.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: chizow
Yep pricing will definitely be interesting with the upcoming parts.

What you'll have is:

GTX 260 c216 - 28 ROP/72 TMU/216 SP/448bit bus/896MB VRAM

GTX 285 - 32 ROP/80 TMU/240 SP/512bit bus/1024MB VRAM

GTX 295 (1 core) - 28 ROP?/80TMU/240SP/448bit bus/896MB VRAM

There's no upgraded specs for the 260? Just a die shrink?

 

[Ryland]

i wonder what will be available in 70 days when my step up expires. It could be worth stepping my 260GTX 192 up to a 55nm part.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: thilan29
There's no upgraded specs for the 260? Just a die shrink?

Well I think the 55nm upgrade for the C216 was supposed to be transparent, but with the GTX 285 they're going to actually bump up clockspeeds with the new SKU. For the end consumer and AIB partners however, the 55nm 260 still translates to upgraded specs as the C216 will still enjoy some or all of the following: lower power consumption, faster clocks, and better thermals.

Also I don't think heat will be an issue with the GTX 285, its already a foregone conclusion it will run cooler and draw less power than the current 65nm version if the Expreview link is accurate, provided it still uses the same excellent stock cooler. Even if its insanely overclocked it should have similar temps and draw to current 65nm overclocked parts, which are still very reasonable (My 280 never goes over 85C and 60% fan speed on auto).

 

[Tempered81]

any word on a gtx260 or gtx260 core216 in the 55nm flavor? That'd be my best bet for Nv value leader.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: jaredpace
any word on a gtx260 or gtx260 core216 in the 55nm flavor? That'd be my best bet for Nv value leader.

There better be and I don't think they'll overlook that.

I wonder if the cooler mounting holes will be different on the new versions...I really wanna use this Maze4 GPU waterblock I have but the current 200 series doesn't work with it...leaving me with an ATI 4XXX series or lower or nV 8/9XXX series cards as the only options.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: SteelSix
So according to rumors thus far, we'll see a GTX 285 (55nm 240sp), and a GTX 295 (dual 55nm 240sp).

If the GTX 285 is meant to replace a 280, it should be around $400 bucks right? If the GTX 295 is meant to compete with x2 it should be around $500 bucks right?

If yes to both then here's the real question, why would anyone buy two GTX 285's to SLI when they could get a GTX 295 (x2 240sp) for a hundred or so more? I can't see the memory solution of GTX 285 SLI being worth $300 bucks more than the sandwich card.

Either my pricing scenario is off nearly a hundred bucks either way, or the specs we've seen thus far are incorrect. I'm skeptical of the shader count on the dual card. Something doesn't make sense..

If the GTX 295 comes it at $500, then I would expect the GTX 285 to cost around $350 or so. Remember that GTX 285 will likely easily beat the GTX 295; the 295 has only a 448-bit interface and less memory (which can make a difference @ 2560x1600). In addition the 285 is supposed to be clocked ~10% higher than the 280, while the GTX 295 will likely be clocked at <=600MHz in order to make power consumption acceptable.

It will be interesting to see how ATI responds to this. The GTX 295 will easily beat the HD 4870 X2 in the high end area, the GTX 285 will have no direct competition if it falls in the $350~ range, and the 55nm GTX 260 C216 should be more than enough to handle the HD 4870 1GB. nVidia still has the problem of much higher build costs, but in terms of pure marketshare it looks like nVidia may gain back what it lost.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
The GTX 295 will easily beat the HD 4870 X2 in the high end area, the GTX 285 will have no direct competition if it falls in the $350~ range, and the 55nm GTX 260 C216 should be more than enough to handle the HD 4870 1GB. nVidia still has the problem of much higher build costs, but in terms of pure marketshare it looks like nVidia may gain back what it lost.

If the GTX295 is 2 Core 216s with lower clocks, how is it easily going to beat the 4870x2 which is 2 4870 1GBs with the same clocks (ie. the single cards are so close)? I've heard several people say this but I'm not sure how that conclusion is automatic...someone please enlighten me if I'm missing something. In cases where the x2 doesn't scale well then yes the 295 will be better but when they both scale well I think it'll be pretty close.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I'll wait for some reviews and hard numbers in games before I get excited.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Extelleron
The GTX 295 will easily beat the HD 4870 X2 in the high end area, the GTX 285 will have no direct competition if it falls in the $350~ range, and the 55nm GTX 260 C216 should be more than enough to handle the HD 4870 1GB. nVidia still has the problem of much higher build costs, but in terms of pure marketshare it looks like nVidia may gain back what it lost.

If the GTX295 is 2 Core 216s with lower clocks, how is it easily going to beat the 4870x2 which is 2 4870 1GBs with the same clocks (ie. the single cards are so close)? I've heard several people say this but I'm not sure how that conclusion is automatic...someone please enlighten me if I'm missing something. In cases where the x2 doesn't scale well then yes the 295 will be better but when they both scale well I think it'll be pretty close.

Its 2 Core 240s on a GTX 260 bus and frame buffer, but that's not the main driving force behind the conclusion. The main driving force is that SLI generally scales much better than CrossFire.

Also Extelleron, was that a mistake saying the GTX 285 would beat a 295? Or are you referring to single core performance? There may be some fringe cases if it manages to overclock to 800+ but a 10% increase alone isn't going to topple GTX 260 SLI performance.

And I wouldn't worry too much about Nvidia's costs either, they've shown they can beat ATI in a price war with the GTX 260 and now that they're both on 55nm I'd bet the much higher price of GDDR5 would negate the much smaller difference in die sizes.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Extelleron
The GTX 295 will easily beat the HD 4870 X2 in the high end area, the GTX 285 will have no direct competition if it falls in the $350~ range, and the 55nm GTX 260 C216 should be more than enough to handle the HD 4870 1GB. nVidia still has the problem of much higher build costs, but in terms of pure marketshare it looks like nVidia may gain back what it lost.

If the GTX295 is 2 Core 216s with lower clocks, how is it easily going to beat the 4870x2 which is 2 4870 1GBs with the same clocks (ie. the single cards are so close)? I've heard several people say this but I'm not sure how that conclusion is automatic...someone please enlighten me if I'm missing something. In cases where the x2 doesn't scale well then yes the 295 will be better but when they both scale well I think it'll be pretty close.

The GTX 295 is going to be 2 x 240SP with unknown clocks. I'm going to presume that clocks will be either the same as the GTX 280 or slightly lower; however it is possible that the shaders will run higher if the normal G80/G92 ratio of core:shader frequency is returned.

Crossfire doesn't really scale as well as SLI does, on average, although it has come very far. If you look at Guru 3D's review for example, using Core i7/X58, or you look at Anandtech's reviews with GTX 260-216 SLI... it rather easily beats the 4870 X2. There are certain times of course when the X2 simply owns every other card and multi-GPU solution on the market..... such as GRID. But if you look at more normal games, like Crysis Warhead, Far Cry 2, Fallout 3, etc..... GTX 280 SLI or even GTX 260 C216 SLI beats the 4870 X2 rather easily.

It will be interesting to see what AMD can conjure up with "RV775," the rumored respin of RV770 bringing higher clocks. With a 10-20% boost in frequency then the battle will get a lot more interesting, but I'm not sure that such a boost would be possible on the 4870 X2, given its power consumption is probably 300W already.

 

[Hauk]

Temps, clocks, and competitiveness from a performance standpoint aside, price points look to be a hot topic as well. Phew!

I have $720 in step-up "fun bucks" good till end of Feb and can add a bit to it. Not sure at this point where I'll go if anywhere at all; but this is very interesting.

One thing I do know, snow levels in Crysis/Warhead still strain my oc'd 260 216 tri-sli setup when shaders and post processing are set to enthusiast. If I set them to gamer (where all other settings are), it's silky smooth. Think it's framebuffer? If so, I'd like to fix it...

Asus Rampage II Extreme
i920 @ 3.7
6GB Corsair @ 1563, 8-8-8-24
260 216 tri @ 675,1463, 2259

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: SteelSix
I have $720 in step-up "fun bucks" good till end of Feb and can add a bit to it. Not sure at this point where I'll go if anywhere at all; but this is very interesting.

Yeah you'll be in a good position to step-up if you choose to. Can do it piece-meal, like 2 then 1 so you're not stuck without a vid card. Might not have to pay much either for each card.

One thing I do know, snow levels in Crysis/Warhead still strain my oc'd 260 216 tri-sli setup when shaders and post processing are set to enthusiast. If I set them to gamer (where all other settings are), it's silky smooth. Think it's framebuffer? If so, I'd like to fix it...

I'd set them individually and see if you notice the same. If shaders is causing it more its probably the limited shader clocks on GT200, which should definitely see a boost with 55nm. If post processing causes the slow downs more than it could be bandwidth and/or frame buffer. ROPs also have a big impact on post processing, in which case higher core clocks on 55nm would also help.

 

[Hauk]

It appears to be shaders mainly. I can set post processing to enthusiast and everything else to gamer and it's fluid. Shaders to enthusiast brings a slowdown. Also end up disabling AA, where I normally run it at 2x. Just those snow scenes. That one in Warhead where you're overlooking a cement plant (i think) in a blizzard is the most demanding scene other than boss endings..

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: SteelSix

Asus Rampage II Extreme
i920 @ 3.7
6GB Corsair @ 1563, 8-8-8-24
260 216 tri @ 675,1463, 2259

Do you still have a 4870X2 / X3 system? How does the new comp compare?

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: chizow
Its 2 Core 240s on a GTX 260 bus and frame buffer, but that's not the main driving force behind the conclusion. T

Originally posted by: Extelleron
The GTX 295 is going to be 2 x 240SP with unknown clocks. I'm going to presume that clocks will be either the same as the GTX 280 or slightly lower; however it is possible that the shaders will run higher if the normal G80/G92 ratio of core:shader frequency is returned.

Ah okay that makes more sense then. I thought it was just 2 260s sandwiched. Thanks.

 

[Hauk]

Originally posted by: jaredpace

Originally posted by: SteelSix

Asus Rampage II Extreme
i920 @ 3.7
6GB Corsair @ 1563, 8-8-8-24
260 216 tri @ 675,1463, 2259

Do you still have a 4870X2 / X3 system? How does the new comp compare?

I sold them off, wanted to see how tri-sli did with x58. I wish I could have kept them to compare on the new rig though. I can't knock what I had, it was fast. The main drawback was the heat output. It literally was enough to heat my 10x10 gaming room.